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  1. #101
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathstar878 View Post
    remember its made of magical metal so it has advanced properties that could possibly stop bullets
    No it's not. This isn't an army of adventurers, this is regular ass footsoldiers.

    They are going to have standard Issue iron or steel armor (if they even have platemail) with a standard sword and shield. Footsoldiers aren't equip for anti-magic because they wouldn't be fighting magic. The idea in WoW conflicts is that you have your grunts fight their grunts and your mages fight their mages
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ummagummas View Post
    Alliance would win. If they can use magic, then Marines have no defense against that. Trust me, I know. I'm currently an active duty Marine.
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I'm currently a mage of the Kirin Tor, and I disagree.
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  3. #103
    Deleted
    Why US marines and not Russian? Or Chinese? As far as I know, right now China has a far superior army than the US. Am I smelling serious bias coupled with the ''we are the greatest nation in the world'' syndrome?

  4. #104
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    Ok. Mages would freeze their enemies (in an army of 5000 people you can have 500 mages, one for every marine) then all the other classes would kill them. The end. It's realistic since you said things happen like in real life, so if you freeze someone it doesn't "wear off" after 10 seconds, they remain frozen for hours until they're either chopped out or the sun melts it. And even if they didn't die of not having air, they still couldn't move in there.

    Oh, no mages. Good, shamans make an earthquake and destroy the area where the marines are.

    No shamans either? Ok, rogues put poisons in the enemy water supply and they all die.

    No rogues either? Well then, druids turn into animals and steal-attack the marines since the marines have no clue what to expect, or in trees.

    No druids either? Ok, priests melt their faces from afar or mind-control some and use them to kill others.

    No priests? awww, warlocks melt their faces and summon fire from the sky.

    No warlocks? The hunters just plant traps and hide, traps are invisible, ignoring that hunters feign death and escape anyway since marines don't have time to sit and check if anyone is still alive in a fight. Hunters also are snipers as the marines, and just because technology isn't as advanced doesn't mean anything for they do have magic.

    No hunters? the paladins bubble themselves and run to enemy guns blazing and spamming holy lance or something wherever they can (even if bubble falls, they have plate armour, so till take a while for bullets to pass).

    No paladins? Warriors charge their enemy and then the rifles of the marines aren't very useful and I think the warriors are better in melee then a marine with a knife. The marines were trained mostly for gun fights, the warriors are masters of melee fights.

    No warriors? Death knights pull the marines to them and melt their faces or freeze them. Then they bring back what they kill as ghouls, making the marines fight not only death knights, but also their friends.

    No death knights? Well then there's only monks left and I don't know so much about them yet, so I can't say anything, but if they're brewmasters they'll pass as regular drunks.

    Face it, the Alliance army would wipe the floor with the marines, although I'd expect rather for them to try and reason. If you want war, try the Horde, they love it, we, Alliance, like peace. That said, I don't think the armies of earth could face something as Yogg'Saron or Deathwing (the LK maybe, we could bomb his citadel, but others Yogg was waaaaaayyy underground, too much even for bunker busters, so you'd need a ground team and they'd go insane without protection and Deathwing would just raise vulcanoes and tidal waves against his enemies while breathing fire, it's not like in-game where fire goes out after 1 min after he passed, though we might just make it against Deathwing with heavy losses) or even Azshara, and certainly we'd all die to the Sha of Hatred or Anger since those would grow the size of Earth in seconds with our world.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Ok. Mages would freeze their enemies (in an army of 5000 people you can have 500 mages, one for every marine) then all the other classes would kill them. The end. It's realistic since you said things happen like in real life, so if you freeze someone it doesn't "wear off" after 10 seconds, they remain frozen for hours until they're either chopped out or the sun melts it. And even if they didn't die of not having air, they still couldn't move in there.

    Oh, no mages. Good, shamans make an earthquake and destroy the area where the marines are.

    No shamans either? Ok, rogues put poisons in the enemy water supply and they all die.

    No rogues either? Well then, druids turn into animals and steal-attack the marines since the marines have no clue what to expect, or in trees.

    No druids either? Ok, priests melt their faces from afar or mind-control some and use them to kill others.

    No priests? awww, warlocks melt their faces and summon fire from the sky.

    No warlocks? The hunters just plant traps and hide, traps are invisible, ignoring that hunters feign death and escape anyway since marines don't have time to sit and check if anyone is still alive in a fight. Hunters also are snipers as the marines, and just because technology isn't as advanced doesn't mean anything for they do have magic.

    No hunters? the paladins bubble themselves and run to enemy guns blazing and spamming holy lance or something wherever they can (even if bubble falls, they have plate armour, so till take a while for bullets to pass).

    No paladins? Warriors charge their enemy and then the rifles of the marines aren't very useful and I think the warriors are better in melee then a marine with a knife. The marines were trained mostly for gun fights, the warriors are masters of melee fights.

    No warriors? Death knights pull the marines to them and melt their faces or freeze them. Then they bring back what they kill as ghouls, making the marines fight not only death knights, but also their friends.

    No death knights? Well then there's only monks left and I don't know so much about them yet, so I can't say anything, but if they're brewmasters they'll pass as regular drunks.
    Yarr, the OP should really mention what exactly does the alliance have? If they have absolutely nothing of the above-mentioned, then that's not really an army - it's a bunch of peasants.

    So the real (seriously biased towards marines) title reads - 100 US Marines VS 5000 Alliance peasants. OMG WHO WOULD WIN???? PS.!! guns kill on hit but fire and ice disappear after 12 seconds!

  6. #106
    Just by the sheer number the marines would be at a HUGE disatvantage, if you add to that magic and lets face it Alliance soldiers are well trained strong bunch of people who can carry a horse on their back and never tire from running those marines are DOOMED. Even with crude instruments or hand-crafted bows they would win just because of the huge number. Each marine would have to take down 50+ alliance soldiers ... nope don't see that happening.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fawxey View Post
    What's with the 50 to 1 odds? and why does the Alliance get to have all their spellcasters etc, and the marines don't get air support or tanks or anything? You bring in Marine support tech and the entire Alliance and Horde combined doesn't stand a chance (let's not even include nukes).

    I mean really your question is basically asking, 100 Stormwind soldiers versus the Burning Legion.

    Not necessarily. If lets say the alliance had access to all the units they had in previous games then they could counter pretty much anything. Add in the NE units(invisible super fast dragons and so on) then yeah the marines would probably still be fucked.

  8. #108
    Tol Barad Guards = Win.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    No it's not. This isn't an army of adventurers, this is regular ass footsoldiers.

    They are going to have standard Issue iron or steel armor (if they even have platemail) with a standard sword and shield. Footsoldiers aren't equip for anti-magic because they wouldn't be fighting magic. The idea in WoW conflicts is that you have your grunts fight their grunts and your mages fight their mages

    Actually in the RTS games your foot soldiers were using Arcanite by end game. And since we're talking battlefield scenarios i for one am looking at the RTS. Oh and pretty sure Thorium was used for the guards armor set back in vanilla. So yeah footsoldiers DO use magic metals.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by misspellar View Post
    biiiitch please lol.

    a few mortars and 50 cal's set up in the mountains would literally be able to hold of and/or destroy any non first world force with ease. Magic or no magic wouldn't matter unless they had someone who was retard strong like malfurion.
    So the marines would stay up in the mountains will all their guns. What will they do when the food supply runs out? Oh right DIE. The ally soldiers don't even have to do anything just wait. It's funny you should mention that a few mortars and 50 cals would "hold of and/or destroy any non first world force with ease" when we all know of 9/11 and the afgani war that prove otherwise. Honestly 100 marines wouldn't even fare off better against 5000 civilians both being given similar weapons.

    Edit: I think you've watched far to many action movies lol.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by panalfik View Post
    100 modern day fully-equipped US Marines (without heavy armor, air support, nukes, etc.)

    vs.

    5000 fully-equipped Alliance Military (not players). So mostly regular infantry, marksmen, cavalry, some mages and healers. Occasional other classes.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The battle would take place in mountains. Marines have the first move.


    GAME MECHANICS DO NOT APPLY.
    Bullets kill just like in real life. Healers can heal non-fatal gun wounds, but they can't just stand in place and spam holy light, making anyone who doesn't instantly die invulnerable. Reviving people takes some time and drains power - they can't just do it forever. Rogues can't magically go invisible in the middle of desert. There are no levels or damage points. 40yd range limit is gone.
    etc.

    Magic users are not omnipotent demigods. They can't just make themselves invulnerable or kill all the marines with a single spell. They're regular, lore-like Alliance mages.

    Who wins?

    Well. First off. No air support nor heavy armor does not = a modern day fully equipped United States Marine.

    But anyways, hypothetically, a Platoon and a half strength Marine force vs 1000 dudes with swords and muskets? Seriously? Being a retired devil dog myself, I feel it's my duty to inform you that whilst being nearly the smallest armed forces branch on the entire planet, Marines create the most havoc for a reason.

    Whats the terrain of this hypothetical battle like? What weapons are we talking about with the Alliance in mind?

    Point blank, when facing a numerically superior force, yet technologically inferior, I am going to knock you out with a double whammy. No matter the terrain, there are always squad placements that can be used to force a superior force into a funnel of death basically. It would pretty much never be 100 of my marines vs 1000 of your alliance, it would be 100 of my marines vs 10 of your alliance at a time. I am confident that we would completely annihilate the enemy force with little to no casualties.

    Hypothetical questions like these are fun, but sadly it would take an overwhelming numerically superior enemy force to knock out 100 marines in a straight up fire fight. Basically, the battle would have to last so long, that you still have fresh bodies on your side to climb the mountain of death your previous men provided, to take out battle fatigued marines. Then of course. I can do quite a lot with 100 devil dogs .

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volta View Post
    Yarr, the OP should really mention what exactly does the alliance have? If they have absolutely nothing of the above-mentioned, then that's not really an army - it's a bunch of peasants.

    So the real (seriously biased towards marines) title reads - 100 US Marines VS 5000 Alliance peasants. OMG WHO WOULD WIN???? PS.!! guns kill on hit but fire and ice disappear after 12 seconds!
    Again going by the RTS setup regular classes at least as we know them aren't in the army. The alliancg has things like tanks,choppers, Gryphon Riders,Mages,Riflemen, Priests, Paladins(see WC2 they were upgraded knights who could heal), Elven Archers and MANY MANY other units and these are just the human forces. If we were to include the NE units like the Sprite Darter(really OP pre wow) and their air units. Then yeah even if the numbers were reversed even with bombs i'd have to say alliance would at the VERY LEAST do some serious damage. But as is alliance hands down.

    Oh and the average mage in the second war had spells that later became archmage ones. So umm yeah hello a bunch of guys using blizzard or some such. They also didn't have a cast bar.

  13. #113
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    Well there is the slight issue that Alliance are limited to 35-40 yard range on their attacks when marines can take people out at 2km.

    Edit: ok so you discount the 40 yard range and also deny the marines their supply chain and back up which is really taking well beyond any sort of interesting hypopthetical scenario.
    Last edited by mmoc02e6c98aec; 2012-04-10 at 10:04 AM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    So the marines would stay up in the mountains will all their guns. What will they do when the food supply runs out? Oh right DIE. The ally soldiers don't even have to do anything just wait. It's funny you should mention that a few mortars and 50 cals would "hold of and/or destroy any non first world force with ease" when we all know of 9/11 and the afgani war that prove otherwise. Honestly 100 marines wouldn't even fare off better against 5000 civilians both being given similar weapons.

    Edit: I think you've watched far to many action movies lol.
    I think you're some ignorant kid who knows nothing of real war or practices. Afghanistan didn't prove shit. This is an hypothetical open field battle, mano to mano. What you're referring to is terrorism and guerrilla warfare tactics. You know the quickest way to get a crowd of 5000 civilians under control with 100 marines? Shoot one of them. You really under estimate the psychological effect seeing 1 person's face explode and brains paint the pavement can have on persons who are not mentally hardened towards that fact of war. I am in no way stating that this would be the right action to take, but if it were literally a situation in which 100 marines lives were in jeopardy, this would be the outcome.

    There are a multitude of possible scenarios that this 100 vs 1000 game could be carried out in. Thee ONLY, and I say that to emphasize the fact that there is only 1 possible scenario that 100 marines could be wiped out by a technologically inferior force with superior numbers, is if the 100 marines were in a flat terrain, such as a desert and instantly surrounded by 1000 bodies with 0 cover at all. Then yes, the marines would more then likely be wiped out. But so would any other force.

    Also, regarding this whole entrench into the mountains business that you two are arguing about. In no situation, ever, would a platoon and a half of marines back themselves into a no escape situation, when faced against a far inferior force. You might see us go up the mountain, but you sure as hell aren't going to see us coming down the other side and obliterating your flank.

    There are so many aspects to this most of you don't understand. Anyways, I'm just getting all nostalgic and shit and over thinking a simple question. Too da loo

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Again going by the RTS setup regular classes at least as we know them aren't in the army. The alliancg has things like tanks,choppers, Gryphon Riders,Mages,Riflemen, Priests, Paladins(see WC2 they were upgraded knights who could heal), Elven Archers and MANY MANY other units and these are just the human forces. If we were to include the NE units like the Sprite Darter(really OP pre wow) and their air units. Then yeah even if the numbers were reversed even with bombs i'd have to say alliance would at the VERY LEAST do some serious damage. But as is alliance hands down.

    Oh and the average mage in the second war had spells that later became archmage ones. So umm yeah hello a bunch of guys using blizzard or some such. They also didn't have a cast bar.
    I play a few rounds of WC2 these days :P RTS standards are good, but technically all footmen are warriors, just as all grunts are warriors. But those that make the deification of the US army their hobby and/or religion tend to toss RTS standards out the window here, and think that every single US marine is a demigod hero who can't be killed with simple fire (fireball/rain of fire/incinerate) or ice (as alliance spellcasters tend to be frost specific in general and RTS).

    They also say that Gryphon Riders that have lightning hammers are no match for a helicopter...
    Seriously...? If they don't have lightning hammers what do they fight with, fucking pitchforks????

    Again, from all I see - everyone that's rooting for the US marines considers this scenario as fighting against peasants that are throwing eggs at them.

  16. #116
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    I do feel loke asking how many people here played the RTS games seeing as those are the best example of an average Watcraft army we have. And it's not necessarily that their tech is inferior so much as different. I mean alliance FOOTSOLDIERS have access to thorium and arcanite(fictional metals with unkown properties) let alone gow OP their actual mages are. Thing is alot of people are following the toned down rules of wow while in the RTS. Castbars bah who needs a cast bar. Channeling maybe but not cast. CD were more limiting than alot of other things as well. In short a WoW character does not an average alliance soldier make. They're even stronger in SOME ways and some units as well are just plain OP by WoW standards.

  17. #117
    Alliance woudl unfortunately win, all they have to do is sit tight and wait for the marines to friendly fire each other till there's 1 left, then kill that 1

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxis86 View Post
    I think you're some ignorant kid who knows nothing of real war or practices. Afghanistan didn't prove shit. This is an hypothetical open field battle, mano to mano. What you're referring to is terrorism and guerrilla warfare tactics. You know the quickest way to get a crowd of 5000 civilians under control with 100 marines? Shoot one of them. You really under estimate the psychological effect seeing 1 person's face explode and brains paint the pavement can have on persons who are not mentally hardened towards that fact of war. I am in no way stating that this would be the right action to take, but if it were literally a situation in which 100 marines lives were in jeopardy, this would be the outcome.

    There are a multitude of possible scenarios that this 100 vs 1000 game could be carried out in. Thee ONLY, and I say that to emphasize the fact that there is only 1 possible scenario that 100 marines could be wiped out by a technologically inferior force with superior numbers, is if the 100 marines were in a flat terrain, such as a desert and instantly surrounded by 1000 bodies with 0 cover at all. Then yes, the marines would more then likely be wiped out. But so would any other force.

    Also, regarding this whole entrench into the mountains business that you two are arguing about. In no situation, ever, would a platoon and a half of marines back themselves into a no escape situation, when faced against a far inferior force. You might see us go up the mountain, but you sure as hell aren't going to see us coming down the other side and obliterating your flank.

    There are so many aspects to this most of you don't understand. Anyways, I'm just getting all nostalgic and shit and over thinking a simple question. Too da loo
    Seriously, why are you stating that you are fighting against a technologically inferior force? Yes you were in the army, and yes you think slaughter is good, we get that, but do you know anything about Warcraft armies? At all? Do you even apply logic?

  19. #119
    And how do you know the marines don't have thousands of boxes of ammo? Mages run out of mana, and they need time to replenish it.
    It doesn't matter. Each side has its counters to the other, and they work out so that no side has an advantage; you could say the Marines have the initial first advantages by terrain knowledge and the 'first strike', but first strikes are only huge if the force your going up against is close to your size/you have access to some harbinger-of-death weapon, and terrain is only big if you can use and abuse it due to your enemy not having a clue of what they're getting into.

    The answer is the same as the first iteration of this thread: the Marines will lose. Simply being a Marine doesn't qualify them for victory because Marines aren't super-human, and since we're dealing with slightly less skilled fighters on the Alliance forces side, that lack of combat skill and potential effective strategy advantage is nullified by the sheer zerging potential they have. Regardless if this is by RTS rules or real-world combat and how many stupid kinks like 'UNLIMITED BOXES OF AMMO/INFINITE MANA REGEN' people keep throwing in simply because they refuse to look at the entire situation objectively, the outcome is still the same.

    If an entire pro-football team were to play a game against a stadium full of fans, the probability that the football pros will win is much lower simply because they are a smaller factor in the equation; that doesn't mean they can't win, it just means they're much less likely to win. The same applies here.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxis86 View Post
    There are so many aspects to this most of you don't understand. Anyways, I'm just getting all nostalgic and shit and over thinking a simple question. Too da loo
    While I don't disagree with anything you say, being fantasy, there's no reason that the Alliance wouldn't have tactics at least as good as the marines. In a lot of ways the Alliance (in my view of WoW) are in much the same situation as the marines, facing superior numbers and relying on their tactics and guile to hold them off.

    But a lot of it comes down to what tech the marines get and how it related to magic - can alliance stealth around or use eye of kilrog etc for risk free surveillance (while marines wouldn't get drones...). Mind control a marine and have him go apeshit on his comrades... It's a somewhat arbitrary result.

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