100 US Marines vs 5000 Alliance soldiers

[Sivick]

if we're allowed to pull in military equipment you can't possibly think those dwarven clunkers are any match for the pride of the US military. Prop planes vs super sonic gets, ancient machine guns vs heat seaking missles, steam powered tanks with a battering ram vs heavily armored tanks with uranium depleted shells.

[Shiny212]

Yes they use Tanks, Submarines, Aerial vehicles, etc. but the ones the Alliance and Horde use aren't even close to as technological advanced as today's standards.

2. If a mage actually did have range of a sniper rifle, don't you think the results would be much different when Archimonde destroyed Dalaran, and they obviously saw that 20 foot tall demon sitting at the mountain nearby. I could say the same for other scenarios. It also takes a lot from a mage to become really efficient and effective in combat, if they just spammed firebolt, maybe, but after probably 6 fireballs they would be exhausted, like you said they added mana and such for the RTS part of the game and to balance out classes. You don't here of Jaina or any other powerful mage continuously spamming spells.

3. No. I cannot agree with you at all on this statement. A warlock with WMD's? Does he even know the power of WMD's? And an arcane mage is on par with a Destroyer gunship? I almost died of laughter on this one. Not even Jaina is on par with a Destroyer gunship, it will take a whole army of her troops to take it down, and even if they do succeed on defeating one, when there is one Destroyer, there is usually a flotilla around it. Think of it this way, a Horde Gunship which cannot even be compared to a Destroyer practically destroyed all of Theramore. What do you think a Destroyer with tons of rockets would do? Jaina wouldn't even have time to escape.

Ok, I'll play this game. Let's assume there's a large skirmish between some Alliance soldiers/magi and US marines with their tanks and helicopters. Magi shield entire friendly army in impenetrable magical protection that is not subject to the laws of physics which all marine weapons are based on. They then summon a few hundred infernals, elementals and other immortal beings that proceed to destroy the petty force of rifle wielding fools. While all this is happening a squadron of gunships attack! However they are all shot out of the sky by massive fireballs and fail to land a single rocket/shot as it is all absorbed by shields and/or reflected back on the "real world" armies.

You cant argue that stuff based on a physical set of rules will stand a chance against something that is reliant on being unchained by such concepts, namely magic, where anything is possible.

[Sorrior]

Possibly unkillable by bullets, but what about rocket launchers and grenades?

Food for a for a fire elemental. or so i would guess.

[Szemere]

Make all 5000 Alliance mages. Use either Fire or Frost spells. Enough mages to just freeze them to their deaths or light them well on fire, seeing how regular people aren't really all that resilient to temperature changes from freezing to melting their skins off...

Of course, you could say it were all just regular footmen: a shield and sword and some armor, but well equiped marines could probably easily take that on.

[Deleted]

There seems to be a lot of talk about Alliance magic users and how they would win easily. The fact is that I doubt the alliance army is all mages. There may be 1000 mages or so and out of that 1000 maybe 100 that can do what most people are suggesting they can do. 10 marines snipers could take down 100 people from a long way quickly not only that but the snipers could just target the most senior mages and wait until the rest of them less skilled mages are within range of the rest of the marines then with a well coordinated strike take out all the mages in the first few minutes of the battle. The marines have one advantage the alliance don't, radio communication.

[Shiny212]

Throwing a grenade at a water elemental is like throwing a grenade into the ocean..

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:43 PM ----------

There seems to be a lot of talk about Alliance magic users and how they would win easily. The fact is that I doubt the alliance army is all mages. There may be 1000 mages or so and out of that 1000 maybe 100 that can do what most people are suggesting they can do. 10 marines snipers could take down 100 people from a long way quickly not only that but the snipers could just target the most senior mages and wait until the rest of them less skilled mages are within range of the rest of the marines then with a well coordinated strike take out all the mages in the first few minutes of the battle. The marines have one advantage the alliance don't, radio communication.

They can't take down anything...The people wielding magic can just defy physics and turn the bullets into flowers. Radio communication? They are fucking telepathic.

[Sorrior]

Yes they use Tanks, Submarines, Aerial vehicles, etc. but the ones the Alliance and Horde use aren't even close to as technological advanced as today's standards.

2. If a mage actually did have range of a sniper rifle, don't you think the results would be much different when Archimonde destroyed Dalaran, and they obviously saw that 20 foot tall demon sitting at the mountain nearby. I could say the same for other scenarios. It also takes a lot from a mage to become really efficient and effective in combat, if they just spammed firebolt, maybe, but after probably 6 fireballs they would be exhausted, like you said they added mana and such for the RTS part of the game and to balance out classes. You don't here of Jaina or any other powerful mage continuously spamming spells.

3. No. I cannot agree with you at all on this statement. A warlock with WMD's? Does he even know the power of WMD's? And an arcane mage is on par with a Destroyer gunship? I almost died of laughter on this one. Not even Jaina is on par with a Destroyer gunship, it will take a whole army of her troops to take it down, and even if they do succeed on defeating one, when there is one Destroyer, there is usually a flotilla around it. Think of it this way, a Horde Gunship which cannot even be compared to a Destroyer practically destroyed all of Theramore. What do you think a Destroyer with tons of rockets would do? Jaina wouldn't even have time to escape.

Yes but they're tech alone isn't the only question.. They ALSO have magic AND magitech. Just because something LOOKS weaker doesn't mean it is in reality.

And have you even SEEN what a ritual spell can do? That crater around the dark portal? ONE MAGE did that. Imagine a group. As for Archimonde. Meh he's a freaking demigod like it woulda done anything. Beside i don;t believ i said they have the same range just not as limited as we have in game. Also try playing the RTS games and THEN tell me they'd lose.

Also outside of planet V planet i have been following the rules set forth by the OP. You guys have not. NO heavy armor NO aerial assaults and so on. Now if I were to break the rules i would just have to add in say Malfurion and Illidan(he may hate his brother and have issues but he's not as evil as WoW leads you to believe he's more a "do what it takes" kinda guy) and lets saaaay ooh a full on pally and mountain King. HELL even just malfurion could lay waste to them. And this is JUST with alliance heroes. Add in horde units or heroes and hello we're fucked.

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:45 PM ----------

if we're allowed to pull in military equipment you can't possibly think those dwarven clunkers are any match for the pride of the US military. Prop planes vs super sonic gets, ancient machine guns vs heat seaking missles, steam powered tanks with a battering ram vs heavily armored tanks with uranium depleted shells.

Again i have dealt with EVERYTHING you mention IN LORE WITHOUT using heroes. No they would not win. Damage sure but not win.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Not really I'd say even 5,000 of the alliance general military VS a FULLY capable 5,000 marines would still let alliance win.

And as for night vision NE has that naturally. The problem as i see it here is ALOT of people see this as just a human VS human conflict when we're have non human species like NE or Worgen fighting. Let alone Druids who can change shape or summon tornadoes(yes this is a basic skill for druids of the talon) and dwarves who can become like stone. Then we have metals that would make steel look like hot butter. We have native trained species that can phase out of the material plane. And umm oh yeah the whole "they have swords we guns hurr" thing doesn't work because again THEY DO HAVE GUNS. Then planes THEY DO HAVE PLANES. Then the bombs why BOTHER with a bomb when you can SUMMON A FREAKING METEOR THAT THEN BECOMES A RAMPAGING PILE OF HOT EARTHEN DEATH.

I mean really people this is ALLIANCE not HUMANS vs the marianes. Just humans sure i could quite possibly give you that one depending on their tech. But as it is the gnomes and dwarves have provided them with tech even better in more than a few ways than ours today is IRL.

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:35 PM ----------




Hmm yeah i;d choose the side with the skills to not just heal me but bring me back from the dead. And again SWORDS ARE NOT THEY'RE ONLY WEAPON.

If it were 5000 Marines vs 5000 Alliance troops the Marines would obliterate them. Night elves? Nothing a high velocity bullet from miles away couldn't take care of. Yes they might have been born with some sort of thermal vision, but it can only reach a minimal range compared to Thermal scopes use on rifles. Materials that make steel look like hot butter? Mhm but a standard sword could still penetrate it easily... makes sense. So, a shitty musket that are used by Azerothians compared to an assault rifle, which is far more superior in every way one may look at it. Dwarves that can turn into stone and walking Stone elementals? Nothing a rocket launcher can fix. A minor, 5 foot falling meteor from the sky? I'd rather use a grenade launcher thank you very much. It seems like you think they have unlimited amount of magic. They don't, if they did then Jaina would be far more looked upon and I doubt the Horde would of attacked Theramore knowing that she resides in it. It takes a lot to be an efficient and effective spellcaster in battle.

[Shiny212]

If it were 5000 Marines vs 5000 Alliance troops the Marines would obliterate them. Night elves? Nothing a high velocity bullet from miles away couldn't take care of. Yes they might have been born with some sort of thermal vision, but it can only reach a minimal range compared to Thermal scopes use on rifles. Materials that make steel look like hot butter? Mhm but a standard sword could still penetrate it easily... makes sense. So, a shitty musket that are used by Azerothians compared to an assault rifle, which is far more superior in every way one may look at it. Dwarves that can turn into stone and walking Stone elementals? Nothing a rocket launcher can fix. A minor, 5 foot falling meteor from the sky? I'd rather use a grenade launcher thank you very much. It seems like you think they have unlimited amount of magic. They don't, if they did then Jaina would be far more looked upon and I doubt the Horde would of attacked Theramore knowing that she resides in it. It takes a lot to be an efficient and effective spellcaster in battle.

1 mage could kill 5000 marines.

[Sorrior]

There seems to be a lot of talk about Alliance magic users and how they would win easily. The fact is that I doubt the alliance army is all mages. There may be 1000 mages or so and out of that 1000 maybe 100 that can do what most people are suggesting they can do. 10 marines snipers could take down 100 people from a long way quickly not only that but the snipers could just target the most senior mages and wait until the rest of them less skilled mages are within range of the rest of the marines then with a well coordinated strike take out all the mages in the first few minutes of the battle. The marines have one advantage the alliance don't, radio communication.

Not if WC2/3 is anything to go by. I mean hell Dalaran is pretty shrunken down and remember ALL the civs in Dal ARE mages. And Dal at least was a part of the alliance.

[Xenden]

Stupid hypothesis but, 5000 vs 100 of almost anything is going to favor the larger side.


Why ask something like this when it seems you are looking for a very weird answer?

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Yes but they're tech alone isn't the only question.. They ALSO have magic AND magitech. Just because something LOOKS weaker doesn't mean it is in reality.

And have you even SEEN what a ritual spell can do? That crater around the dark portal? ONE MAGE did that. Imagine a group. As for Archimonde. Meh he's a freaking demigod like it woulda done anything. Beside i don;t believ i said they have the same range just not as limited as we have in game. Also try playing the RTS games and THEN tell me they'd lose.

Also outside of planet V planet i have been following the rules set forth by the OP. You guys have not. NO heavy armor NO aerial assaults and so on. Now if I were to break the rules i would just have to add in say Malfurion and Illidan(he may hate his brother and have issues but he's not as evil as WoW leads you to believe he's more a "do what it takes" kinda guy) and lets saaaay ooh a full on pally and mountain King. HELL even just malfurion could lay waste to them. And this is JUST with alliance heroes. Add in horde units or heroes and hello we're fucked.

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:45 PM ----------



Again i have dealt with EVERYTHING you mention IN LORE WITHOUT using heroes. No they would not win. Damage sure but not win.

I am simply replying to what you thought of the idiotic response made by ZenX in counter to my response. I already admitted that 100 Marines would lose against 5000 Alliance soldiers because of the lack of resources. And it seemed like you ignored everything I have said. Read my response again so you can understand it a bit more from where I am coming at. Back then, a small, portable piece of machine firing projectiles flying through mid-air at a high speed and velocity, that can penetrate through thick materials in a continuous pattern and rate would be considered magic in their eyes.

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:53 PM ----------

1 mage could kill 5000 marines.

Yeah, if the marines were a bunch of handicapped cavemen that have no sense of strategy or tactics that can't even handle or hold a gun. Other then that, what you just said is far stupider and more idiotic then the other response saying that a Warlock is just as powerful as any WMD.

[iceberg265]

Even "footmages" as you call them have the potential to wipe out an entire army. The Alliance forces would definitely win if they had any mages.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

1 mage could kill 5000 marines.

Yeah, if the marines were a bunch of handicapped cavemen that have no sense of strategy or tactics that can't even handle or hold a gun. Other then that, what you just said is far stupider and more idiotic then the other response saying that a Warlock is just as powerful as any WMD.

[Sorrior]

If it were 5000 Marines vs 5000 Alliance troops the Marines would obliterate them. Night elves? Nothing a high velocity bullet from miles away couldn't take care of. Yes they might have been born with some sort of thermal vision, but it can only reach a minimal range compared to Thermal scopes use on rifles. Materials that make steel look like hot butter? Mhm but a standard sword could still penetrate it easily... makes sense. So, a shitty musket that are used by Azerothians compared to an assault rifle, which is far more superior in every way one may look at it. Dwarves that can turn into stone and walking Stone elementals? Nothing a rocket launcher can fix. A minor, 5 foot falling meteor from the sky? I'd rather use a grenade launcher thank you very much. It seems like you think they have unlimited amount of magic. They don't, if they did then Jaina would be far more looked upon and I doubt the Horde would of attacked Theramore knowing that she resides in it. It takes a lot to be an efficient and effective spellcaster in battle.

Yes nothing your weapons can't fix. WEAPONS. Species can be replaced nigh indefinitely while a weapon only as long as there are the SPECIFIC ingredients required to make it. And yeah a rocket launcher could deal a pretty harsh blow but are you REALLY thinking the marines would have enough rocket launchers for say 20 muntain giants, 1000 infernals(who would probably just call that food anyways), 200 tanks and so on? I mean really. As for the NE yeah sure but it's also shown that they are FAR more agile than a human. AND that they DO have scopes in azeroth. Oh and ranged scouting? AGAIN imagine a scout that can phase out of the physical realm? You fire at that and what NOTHING. How about giant creature spewing acid? Or an army of crows that fall down and then become a bunch of bears who's bullet wounds are getting healed as you inflict them? And again i'll say it. You say can pierce steel one of our strongest metals and so on. But what about a metal that may very well make a diamond look weak? I mean look at your crafting list someday. You'll find steel down near the bottom with what? 5 maybe even 10+ materials above it in quality? Yeah not a valid argument.

As for the horde attacking theramore. THEY ALSO have people who can unleash hell. OUR ARMIES DO NOT. Point being they can do things our soldiers would deem impossible and they have tech that meshes with said traits to do even crazier things. AND AGAIN if we are gonna go full on tech here then guess what? THE DWARVES ARE STUDYING TITAN TECH. And TBH seem to have a pretty good idea of how it works same for gnomes. I mean gnomes can build sci fi grade tech IF THEY BOTHER. They just tend not to.

[TheAmazingFeedz]

Throwing a grenade at a water elemental is like throwing a grenade into the ocean..

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:43 PM ----------



They can't take down anything...The people wielding magic can just defy physics and turn the bullets into flowers. Radio communication? They are fucking telepathic.

Really? I have never heard of a mage that can turn a high speed bullet flying through mid-air, so fast the naked eye cannot even see it, into a flower. Wow a lot of these responses are... uhhh.. interesting.

[Shiny212]

Yeah, if the marines were a bunch of handicapped cavemen that have no sense of strategy or tactics that can't even handle or hold a gun. Other then that, what you just said is far stupider and more idiotic then the other response saying that a Warlock is just as powerful as any WMD.

How about, the mage causes all the marines to spontaneously combust. Or wait, no, he turns them to ice and shatters them, no wait he brings down an avalanche on top of their heads while remaining impervious to bullets/rockets/tanks/nukes through magical shielding and teleportation. Really...what is the point of arguing, Magic is when something defies science, marines, are based on science, therefore, in the eyes of a mage, THEY ARE handicapped cavemen with no sense of strategy.

[Sorrior]

I am simply replying to what you thought of the idiotic response made by ZenX in counter to my response. I already admitted that 100 Marines would lose against 5000 Alliance soldiers because of the lack of resources. And it seemed like you ignored everything I have said. Read my response again so you can understand it a bit more from where I am coming at. Back then, a small, portable piece of machine firing projectiles flying through mid-air at a high speed and velocity, that can penetrate through thick materials in a continuous pattern and rate would be considered magic in their eyes.

---------- Post added 2012-04-10 at 11:53 PM ----------



Yeah, if the marines were a bunch of handicapped cavemen that have no sense of strategy or tactics that can't even handle or hold a gun. Other then that, what you just said is far stupider and more idiotic then the other response saying that a Warlock is just as powerful as any WMD.

No no it wouldn't. We have sen both goblins an gnomes build stuff that can do VERY similar things. This isn't some world where magic is just misunderstood tech it;s a world where BOTH magic and tech exist side by side and even compliment each other. They'd know the difference.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 12:00 AM ----------

Really? I have never heard of a mage that can turn a high speed bullet flying through mid-air, so fast the naked eye cannot even see it, into a flower. Wow a lot of these responses are... uhhh.. interesting.

The HUMAN naked eye. And again assuming it would even work against all the species in azeroth.

[Shiny212]

Really? I have never heard of a mage that can turn a high speed bullet flying through mid-air, so fast the naked eye cannot even see it, into a flower. Wow a lot of these responses are... uhhh.. interesting.

Have you heard of a marine being able to penetrate a magical shield with his bullets? Since there's no science to back that, and since magic dictates that there's no way in hell it would, that's what should be logically assumed.

And really, a mage can be BLIND and still turn your bullet into a legoman.

[UnstoppableFlame]

I'm sure it's been said, but even 5000 alliance guards could probably take out a group of 100 US marines, just because it's 5000 people. I understand that machine guns and such are a problem, but it's still 5000 people against 100 people. Plus when you imagine that the alliance can still use healers, shields, mages, rogues, bowmen, and gunmen, it just becomes a massacre. Honestly. A better question would be like 100-300 alliance soldiers (Rogue, Warrior, Hunter, Monk, maybe Death Knight, Priests, and MAYBE Paladins) vs. 100 US marines. No mages, so people don't freak out with "OMG 1 MAGE WINS OVER 10000000 MARINES".