I feel the infraction system needs fine tuning.

[Deleted]

With the way you moderators hand out infractions like candy in a kindergarten class, there wouldn't be anyone left on these forums if they didn't decay >.>

I just got through perusing a thread where almost every other post had <infracted> on it. None of them were offensive, and none of them really warranted an infraction. We have absolutely no control over times where a mod decides to go infraction happy.

you need to realize that often, moderators remove the most offensive part from the post. things like meme images, hateful languages, advertisement links and similar. not all mods do it, but most do.

[procne]

As always, you can PM any mod/admin about a mod action, and they'll put it up for discussion in our appeals thread. However it's a somewhat different issue than what should occur as a result of the infractions themselves.

Should I normally receive some answer after contacting mod/admin about the outcome of the appeal?

[Saeran]

To clarify: You weren't banned, you had a 3 day suspension. Sorry, but that needed to be cleared up. A ban is something else entirely (and rarely used).

The FAQs need changing then as within them they state: "Jim has just triggered the 15 point ban, and is now banned for 3 days."

Should I normally receive some answer after contacting mod/admin about the outcome of the appeal?

I tried to appeal an infraction, never heard a thing.

[Maharishi]

How often are these repealed though? Because some people like me will wonder if it's worth bothering.

Certainly it's the minority, but not absurdly so. I don't want to discuss specifics, as its not my place to do so, but it's well worth appealing anything you feel is unfair, as plenty of them do get reduced/reversed. Also, Bibi and Sunshine have the final say, and will occasionally overrule the Mod's community decision to keep an infraction if they feel differently.

[Atrea]

Which is a separate issue from the infraction system itself. Like I said above, you can appeal any infraction and it will be reviewed in our appeals forum, which rarely get less than 20 different mods weighing in on the validity of the infraction.

I think the underlying issue here, is that it's not worth the trouble half the time.
With that said, it would be nice to have some sort of transparency; perhaps the person making the appeal having access to the thread?

At least then they would know if something is being done or not.

[Maharishi]

Should I normally receive some answer after contacting mod/admin about the outcome of the appeal?

Yes, better to PM a blue or a Sunshine, as they're on more often. Any mod should put appeals they're PM'd in the forum and let you know the outcome, though.

[Maruka]

The infraction system is fine, the mods that enforce it are frankly horrible in some cases though.

[Maharishi]

At least then they would know if something is being done or not.

The issue with this is the same reason scrapbot exists, it discourages honest discussion between the moderators if it's public, as what they say could be used against them later.

[DSRilk]

My only complaint is that many moderators (heck, most users here) don't seem to know what satire is.

[Adramalech]

The infraction system is fine, the mods that enforce it are frankly horrible in some cases though.

To be fair, I rarely see rampant infractions for little to no reason. It is quite rare to see a moderator go berserk on a thread just because they thought the posts warranted it, even though most people would disagree. It's one of these cases of, how can I say... well, it's not fair to blame the moderators in general when only a handful do that sometimes.

I'm not talking about you specifically, but more about people who label the moderators all in the same basket.

[MerinPally]

Certainly it's the minority, but not absurdly so. I don't want to discuss specifics, as its not my place to do so, but it's well worth appealing anything you feel is unfair, as plenty of them do get reduced/reversed. Also, Bibi and Sunshine have the final say, and will occasionally overrule the Mod's community decision to keep an infraction if they feel differently.

Well if it's in the minority then what's the point. Even if it's not absurdly so it seems completely pointless to try and get something repealed that is unlikely as it is and all comes down to getting 2 people who probably have infinitely better things to do than trawl over all the "why is this worth an infraction" posts they may or may not get.

The bit that gets me most is that what I said in that particular thread was identical to numerous other threads and in none of those did I get an infraction but in this one I did, but some of the people doing actual insults rather than what was obviously a joke, got off scott free.

Whilst it's obvious that having a blanket rule is not going to work with a large number of mods as there will obviously be various interpretations of the rules by various people, but some of the discrepancies seem vast. There is one particular mod in 1 particular section which I specifically avoid all threads from due to recieving infractions from said mod, but then (s)he ignores actual issues, and then in some cases being downright offensive whilst other mods take most of the idiotic ravings in their stride and get joined in and make for a decent thread rather than one which stops halfway through because they see so many red cards on a thread.

[TenDance]

I certainly know, that when I infract I always explain why the user has been infracted, how to prevent it in the future, and tell them about how the infraction will last (and any future infractions may result in a suspension).

This should be the standard procedure, because it will teach the "culprit" how he should've behaved - and it takes the mod some effort to do so.
This way a mod is forced to re-think why someone deserved it - and this keeps our "human weaknesses" in check. We're all human, sometimes stressed, sometimes emotional, sometimes just tired - and a simple infraction is a quick task.

And it helps to keep the standards in check. Sometimes the opinions what gets an infraction and what won't differ too wildly - in the same part of the forum, even in the same thread.

[Drakhar]

The only problem I see is the inconsistencies between moderators. There is a small minority that appear all too eager to hand out infractions for no apparent reason.

[Atrea]

The issue with this is the same reason scrapbot exists, it discourages honest discussion between the moderators if it's public, as what they say could be used against them later.

I think that's something of a cop-out.

If they're being honest, they shouldn't have any reason to hide it. It's the general feeling of dishonesty which is why so many people are frustrated and jaded about the system. Having everything done behind closed doors does nothing to alleviate this.

What would a moderator have to fear from a regular user, anyway?
If it's something that could be used against them later, then maybe they shouldn't be saying it in the first place.

[Prothall]

One thing that does need to be addressed is consistency in moderator actions.

I was once sent a PM by a mod regarding a post, warning me for it - which was fair. Then a few hours later, another mod came into the thread and gave me an infraction for it.

I didn't complain, because honestly, it was just a 5 pt infraction, and I only had one other active, so it didn't really inconvenience me any.
With that said, retrospective 'justice' like that is kind of asinine.

Edit: Correction. Nearly 24 hours after. It's like it took them a day to sort through a thread that was now dead, to find something to hand out infractions for. For something I was already warned about.

This. Mods aren't consistent at all. Like in the "How are people OK with this?" thread about the AP a week or so ago. People were calling for the thread to be locked, and a moderator was actually IN the thread, adding fuel to the fire. It was days later when another moderator actually closed the thread.

[Maharishi]

Well if it's in the minority then what's the point.

A lot of people appeal pretty ridiculously cut and dry infractions. That's lumping in ban appeals and infraction appeals together, though. Straight up infraction appeals have a better success rate.

Also, a friendly reminder that this isn't the place to complain about specific mods/mod actions. PM an admin if you wish to broach issues of that nature.

[Adramalech]

This. Mods aren't consistent at all. Like in the "How are people OK with this?" thread about the AP a week or so ago. People were calling for the thread to be locked, and a moderator was actually IN the thread, adding fuel to the fire. It was days later when another moderator actually closed the thread.

If I recall correctly, the moderator participating in the discussion there had no jurisdiction over that specific sub forum, so he had no say in closing it or infracting people who went too far (at least as far as I know). I'll agree, the thread should have been closed much sooner than it was, but I understand what the moderators wanted: to keep all the discussion (or whatever that thread was) in a single place to avoid the usual spam of threads on the same subject. It eventually got to a point that they really had no reason to keep it open anymore... even though it did survive for even a longer time before they hammered it.

Point was: the moderator you're talking about was as much of a moderator there as you and me are. In that specific thread, he was a normal poster in a discussion.

I didn't name anyone, but I guess it's better to stop talking about that in this thread, too.

[Maharishi]

What would a moderator have to fear from a regular user, anyway?
If it's something that could be used against them later, then maybe they shouldn't be saying it in the first place.

Because we use this forum as users as well, and we already catch a lot of flak for being mods with discussions that have nothing to do with it. We need to be able to say "this user has a history of bad posts" without having to deal with crap whenever we want to post normally.

[MerinPally]

Also, a friendly reminder that this isn't the place to complain about specific mods/mod actions. PM an admin if you wish to broach issues of that nature.

Yup I know that's why I mentioned no names and nothing else, simply used it as my example to highlight the major indiscrepencies between mods. A couple posts above this demonstrates it perfectly - he got a warning from a mod but no infraction then later on another mod found the same post and infracted him for it. Now I know some mods are in different timezones to each other so due to work and... sleep, communication will break down occasionally, but in that example and multiple others raised in this thread and many more you'd see simply by perusing the forums, Moderator inconsistency is abundant.

[vizzle]

Infraction system is fine. Stop posting memes and insulting people, it's that easy.

This is coming from someone who gets an infraction every week.