[TV] Game of Thrones - Why is Jon Snow not Jon Stark

[Deleted]

then why does

cersei become lady of casterly rock while kevan is alive?

and euron isn't fair because that was up to a vote, not because of the line of succession

[Deleted]

Haha ok i misunderstood why Ned Stark looked up Gendry - i thought it was because being a basterd son of Robert while Joffrey was not Robert's son at all made him the heir to the throne, but it was actually because Jon Arryn had been investigating this - pressumably because Jon Arryn had figured out Joffrey was not Robert's son at all but just a Lannister inbred, and was going to inform Robert of this. Ned investigating Jon Arryn's death, combined with Sansa remarking how different Joffrey is from the average Baratheon, leads to Ned figuring out what's what, threatening to inform Robert of this which would cause Robert to kill everything and everyone, and so Cersei has Robert killed before Ned can tell him.
And so i take it Joffrey is having all the bastard offspring killed because he's an evil rat who does believe he is the rightfull heir, but also heard the rumors about his inbred herritage, and feels a wee bit threatened by the bastards.

[Celebronde]

Snow because Snow is the surname for bastard born kids in the north. Just like Lord Bolton's bastard son is called Ramsay Snow.

[Adonkavic]

The name "Snow" is given to a bastard from the north, like Ramsay Snow later in the books (why'd they cut him from the show >.<). it's not just snow as well, there is "Sand" if you're a bastard from Dorne and "Rivers" if you're a bastard from the riverlands and others as well depending on the region

[Kharnage]

then why does

cersei become lady of casterly rock while kevan is alive?

and euron isn't fair because that was up to a vote, not because of the line of succession

Very Simple she is the Queen Regent and therefor rules all the kingdom through her son, her uncles Kevan has nothing to do with anything because Tyrion is the true Lord of Casterly Rock until he kileld his father. If you ever read the books you would know that Tywin wanted Jaime to rule the Rock and his reasons for Vacating his poistion as Hand of the King was in protest because Aerys made Jaime one of his Kingsguard to weaken House Lannister

I understand where you are coming tho, females are supposed to be able to inherit, but the males of the family almost always are more powerful or influential to take their inheritance .

[Celebronde]

and Edric Storm was born in Storm's End.. thus. Bastards from Highgarden are given the surname Flowers etc

[Deleted]

Very Simple she is the Queen Regent and therefor rules all the kingdom through her son, her uncles Kevan has nothing to do with anything because Tyrion is the true Lord of Casterly Rock until he kileld his father. If you ever read the books you would know that Tywin wanted Jaime to rule the Rock and his reasons for Vacating his poistion as Hand of the King was in protest because Aerys made Jaime one of his Kingsguard to weaken House Lannister .

her being queen regent has NOTHING to do with her being lady of casterly rock. Jaime is kingsguardinized and thus not available, tyrion is accused of murder and thus not available, according to your logic, since no male heirs are available the honour should go to Kevan but it doesn't. it goes to cersei. again, her being regent does not also make her lady of casterly rock, that should have gone to Kevan if your theory was correct.

[tremulant]

If Stannis and Renly are both before any of Robert's bastard sons in line of succession, why do the Lannisters kill all of Robert's bastards

The Lannister's are killing the bastards because they're destroying evidence that Joffry isn't Rob's sons, because of his bastards hair color compared to Joffry's.

[Deleted]

and Edric Storm was born in Storm's End.. thus. Bastards from Highgarden are given the surname Flowers etc

Quite, but not quite. Edric Storm is called Storm because he's born in the Stormlands, not because he was born in Storm's End per se. Flowers is a name given to all bastards born in the Reach, not only those born in Highgarden.
From Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Flowers is the bastard name for the Reach
Hill is the bastard name for the Westerlands
Pyke is the bastard name for the Iron Islands
Rivers is the bastard name for the Riverlands
Sand is the bastard name for Dorne
Snow is the bastard name for the North
Stone is the bastard name for the Vale
Storm is the bastard name for the Stormlands
Waters is the bastard name for the Crownlands.

[Riavan]

I don't know if I agree siblings are before bastards.
[COLOR=#000000]I remember Rob Stark tries to put John Snow next in line before he dies.[/COLOR] Is he allowed to do that?

[Deleted]

The Lannister's are killing the bastards because they're destroying evidence that Joffry isn't Rob's sons, because of his bastards hair color compared to Joffry's.

There's already no denying the physical differences between Joffrey and Robert, there's no way to proof some unknown blacksmith's apprentice or whatnot truly is Robert's offspring, and even if there were, having one dark child with one woman does not make it impossible to have a light child with a different woman (or even the same woman). The existance of the bastards isn't evidence of Joffrey being an inbred, certainly not by standards of having a claim to a throne or not. Also, in the last episode it was made clear Joffrey was the one who had given the order to kill them all; he's not even truly aware of his inbred herritage.

[Deleted]

I don't know if I agree siblings are before bastards.
I was pretty sure it went male children > male bastards > female children > siblings

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bastardy

"The baseborn have few rights under the law and custom when it comes to rights of inheritance. A bastard may inherit if the father has no other trueborn children nor any other likely kin to follow him. Additionally, a bastard can inherit if he is legitimized by a royal decree. However, a legitimized bastard falls in the order of succession at the end, after all trueborn offspring, including daughters."

[Deleted]

no, because sansa and arya are before jon snow in the line of succession, for example.

[Kharnage]

her being queen regent has NOTHING to do with her being lady of casterly rock. Jaime is kingsguardinized and thus not available, tyrion is accused of murder and thus not available, according to your logic, since no male heirs are available the honour should go to Kevan but it doesn't. it goes to cersei. again, her being regent does not also make her lady of casterly rock, that should have gone to Kevan if your theory was correct.

Her being queen Regent is everything. She has all the power, if Kevan tries to claim casterly rock you think Cersei is going to sit back and let him? Kevan acknowledges her only because he has no other choice. Also by my Logic Id id say males can inherit through their mothers so it would go to Cerseis children before Kevan.

[Deleted]

Why is this thread still ongoing, I bet the OP got the answer already. About 14 times, actually.

[LazarusLong]

no, because sansa and arya are before jon snow in the line of succession, for example.

As King of the North he certainly could.

[Deleted]

As King of the North he certainly could.

yeah i answered before the edit, as king he could legitimize jon and make him next in line.

[Deleted]

Her being queen Regent is everything. She has all the power, if Kevan tries to claim casterly rock you think Cersei is going to sit back and let him? Kevan acknowledges her only because he has no other choice. Also by my Logic Id id say males can inherit through their mothers so it would go to Cerseis children before Kevan.

I'm not perfectly sure what exactly you two are arguing about anymore, but it is very clear that Cersei has a claim for Casterly Rock and it has nothing to do with her being the Queen Regent. This is verified in the fifth book, A Dance of Dragons, on page 591 of the UK hardcover version:
Jon is discussing with Alys about the inheritance of Karhold.
Jon: "Your uncle... would that be Lord Arnolf (Karstark)?
Alys: "He is no lord. My brother Harry (Son of Rickard Karstark) is the rightful lord (of Karhold) and [B]by law I am his heir. A Daughter comes before an uncle."[/B]

[Deleted]

thank you, don't have my books on me atm so couldn't whip up any fancy quotes

[Julian Rayne]

Girls only inherit if their father had no brothers.
Look at Balon Greyjoy, his brother came before his son and his daughter. the same thing happened to one of the Targaryen Kings. He only had a daughter and the Line of succession passed over to his brother, who then killed the daughter,

I don't think so. Legitimate girls come before their fathers' brothers. Example Alys Karstark had a better claim than her uncle and Cercei became the Lady of Casterly Rock ahead of Kevan.

In the case of the Greyjoys, a maester said that Theon was the rightful King. However the Damphair insisted that the Ironborn did not follow green land laws.

Could you name the Targaryen King you mentioned? I can't recall that incident.

I don't know if I agree siblings are before bastards.
[COLOR=#000000]I remember Rob Stark tries to put John Snow next in line before he dies.[/COLOR] Is he allowed to do that?

Robb was doing that as both the Lord of House Stark and King in the North which gave him pretty wide latitude. If he had simply legitimized Jon but NOT specifically named his as heir, Sansa and then Arya would be before him.

I think the succession goes:
Legitimate Sons > Legitimate Daughters > Legitimized Sons > Legitimized Daughters > Father's siblings.

ETA - I don't know why my COLOR tags aren't working.