Is Guild Wars 2 a runaway success without even having had a single public beta event?

[Deleted]

As someone has mentioned previously in this thread, there may be no price competition between the two games, but there most certainly is time competition. I am one of those players who is currently playing WoW (albeit a lot less than I used to), and planning on cancelling my WoW subscription once GW2 launches. Reasons include, but are not limited to:

(1) I do not have time to do both games justice, and
(2) I do not agree with the direction WoW is going (nor has been going for a while now, but there's been no alternative that appealed to me), and
(3) I am finding WoW - even after a new patch with new content very much the "same old same old" gear treadmill which I'm tired of

Please don't misread the above, I'm not having a go at WoW - I'm reiterating my personal opinions of the game having played for near 5 years. I've had fun, it's been great, but it's time to hang up my hat.

I wonder how many other people feel the same way - planning on cancelling their subscription when GW2 launches as they don't have the time or inclination to play both games? On the basis that I feel there are probably a number of people with the same mind set, I will say that I cannot agree with your argument that GW2 will have no effect on WoW. I don't expect it to decimate WoW's playerbase, but almost inarguably, some will leave WoW for GW2.

I agree with what you've written so much, that I actually had to scroll back up to check I hadn't written it myself when I got in from the pub last night and just couldn't remember doing it!

Personally I am not overly influenced by "payment model" in terms of having to make a choice, and I am not interested in anything being a "WoW killer", however I do not have enough time to play both GW2 and WoW and be able to do either one of them justice - and so without revealing which game I am more in favour of, I will simply pick one of them and cancel my subscription to the other. *cough* *cough*

[sacrypheyes]

so much bs in this topic and i didn't even look at more than the first page...

[Delias]

so much bs in this topic and i didn't even look at more than the first page...

Yet felt the need to add your two cents. Good job!
And here I was, thinking that I had put some pretty valid points on page one. Darn.

[Banzhe]

QUESTION: Is Guild Wars 2 already a success without even having launched a single beta event yet?

Let me get down to some numbers here people.. and let me be clear, these numbers are purposely lowballed as the reality is actually much higher than this

- ArenaNET was given $15,000,000 operating budget and extreme leeway to develop GW2 because of GW1's success
- 500,000 Collector's Edition WorldWide gone within minutes. Every single physical copy sold in every country it has launched: Slovenia, meh just Europe, etc it's gone. It's just gone! gobbled everything up
- 500,000 digital copies (I'm only counting standard, not even counting DDE so again I am purposely lowballing these numbers)

ArenaNET has gone on record saying if they break even on pre-purchase, it's already a success.. that's what they wanted when they began this endeavour and is what their baseline goal was.. to break even and return the initial investment given to them and more importantly the Faith and Trust handed to their team to make the game they want to make

$15,000,000 initial fund

500,000 x $150 = $75,000,000
500,000 x $60 = $30,000,000

I'll stop there.. in my opinion there were more standard/dde units sold and more actual Collector's Edition supply but like I said I've been lowballing these..

so already their $15mil initial capital has returned over $100million.. without a single beta event (press beta doesn't count).

What are your thoughts guys? is GW2 a success considering the response they've been getting in terms of money people are throwing at them?

As with any other previous good game doing a follow-up, they were bound to get some attention.., although this time around it's been overly-hyped by consumers, which I'm sure will be reflected after the first 3-5 months after the game is released.

If your question is weather or not its a success based upon pre-orders, then I guess the obvious answer is yes.., but I've lost count of how many threads there's been over the last year claiming a new giant success only to see just as many threads in 2-3 months after about how truly lackluster it was compared to wow.

Anything "new" is always exiting, the thing about wow is that it came out at just the right time, and even now people are still finding it relatively fresh (Ignore Ds content).., not to mention the number of players enjoying wow due to the social aspects in it along with the lore.
Granted the system involving LFR have been taking a beating and most like pissing off more people then it's pleased.., overall you can't deny wow is still a raving success on all fronts simply due to it's many options.

Personally I wouldn't expect any new game released for at least the next 3 - 5 years to even make a dent in wow's popularity, and if we see an overwhelming drop in players it'll most likely be based upon people simply wanting something else regardless of what it may be such at yourself OP

As you mentioned there's been no beta, so all people have to go on is what they read or see in ss / small clips which 99% of time don't reflect the reality of the game once released.

[Drakan]

for success in wow pvp = grinding+class+gear+setup+%10 skill
for success in wow pve = grinding+class+gear+setup
for success in gw pvp = all depends on your skill and a little setup of the team
if u are succeeding in wow, you are an average person. If you are failing in wow you should try an easier game.
if u are succeeding in gw, you are a skilled person
but when talking about having fun of a game, it is totally relative. Having more players than gw doesnt make wow better also when gw2 is out even if it has more players than wow, it doesnt make gw2 better than wow. Majortiy does not determines something's quality.

[Deleted]

I just wanted to say that it could very well be a wow killer even if its not the same type of mmo, becouse it all boils down to time, if its better then wow in gameplay, no1 will want to put their time into wow and therefor will stop playing wow so they can put all the time into gw2 insteed, it has nothing to do with that you have to pay to play for one, and not pay for the other, its about what do you want to do with your time, play a good mmo or a less good mmo, and this goes for all mmo´s out there not just wow, but also swtor and so on, i for 1 wouldent put down money into a game of there was a better one that let me play without doing so

[Rapti]

@Diamond: Thing is you dont have to spend so much time in GW2. You log in to have some fun, once done you can check out another game or go and raid in wow on that day.
All depends on how much time you have for "games" in general.

[DreamCast]

for success in wow pvp = grinding+class+gear+setup+%10 skill
for success in wow pve = grinding+class+gear+setup
for success in gw pvp = all depends on your skill and a little setup of the team
if u are succeeding in wow, you are an average person. If you are failing in wow you should try an easier game.
if u are succeeding in gw, you are a skilled person
but when talking about having fun of a game, it is totally relative. Having more players than gw doesnt make wow better also when gw2 is out even if it has more players than wow, it doesnt make gw2 better than wow. Majortiy does not determines something's quality.

On your one point wow has officially become the easiest game overall pve wise, with the introduction of 1.2 in SWTOR and the bonus boss in Kaon, SWTOR has some encounters equal to that of the hard bosses in burning crusade heroics.

Wow is coming off its worst expansion by far which has also given life to GW2, when GW1 came out it was competing with a very strong content in wow but it still managed to sell 4 million copies. This time around I think they can sell at least 50% more copies.

If MoP ends up being another flop, GW2 and SWTOR will be the MMOs to play in the NA/EU regions.

[Deleted]

@Diamond: Thing is you dont have to spend so much time in GW2. You log in to have some fun, once done you can check out another game or go and raid in wow on that day.
All depends on how much time you have for "games" in general.

You dont HAVE to, but if its a good game that is fun and pulls you in, you're going to WANT to.

[Deleted]

for success in wow pvp = grinding+class+gear+setup+%10 skill
for success in wow pve = grinding+class+gear+setup
for success in gw pvp = all depends on your skill and a little setup of the team
if u are succeeding in wow, you are an average person. If you are failing in wow you should try an easier game.
if u are succeeding in gw, you are a skilled person
but when talking about having fun of a game, it is totally relative. Having more players than gw doesnt make wow better also when gw2 is out even if it has more players than wow, it doesnt make gw2 better than wow. Majortiy does not determines something's quality.

First of all to ME it seems like you have not cleared HM in WoW and have not gotten a very high rating in PvP. I will not deny that gear and setup means a lot and can mean everything is low rating pvp and normal raiding, but "hardcore" raiding and pvp does take a lot of skill and dedication.
The problem I have with GW2 is that there will be no instance raiding just open world bosses where everyone can join swich will cause chaos and i cannot comfirm this, but this can lead to bosses just getting stomped into the ground if 200 people show and it will not matter if the scales with number of players, because people in the beta will know if a huge group of people do one of the dynamic events they will destroy it with no problems, even though the events are suppose to scale with number of people doing the event.
The whole you are succeeding thing is stupid, it is the player that decides if he/she is success in the game, so yes it is possible to be succesful without being skillful at the game, but the same goes for GW. Some people are content with just normal and are you telling me any random person can clear all of the HM raids, because as far as I am aware only 5% or less clears all of it and that is out of 10+ million people. I have no doubt that GW2 will be a good game, but do not say it is a more skilled based game untill it is out of beta and people have had a chance to do the endgame content and who knows how big of an effect the micro transaction system is going to have.

P.S no sure if you are talking about GW1 or GW2 in the start

[Deyadissa]

Aaaand all credibility lost in one swing, good job!
If you think that Arenanet is prioritizing PvP over PvE or PvE over PvP, you haven't really been paying much attention.
Saying GW2 is a PvP game is the easiest way to get a room to simultaneously facepalm.

And saying it's not a real rival is also pretty silly, you seem to be forgetting that games take time.
While GW2 and WoW may not be competition for each other wallet-wise, they are still competition time-wise.
Not everyone has time to play two MMOs. And saying that 'Each game will be able to have their own community side by side.' is silly as hell to, that's not how MMOs work.

You are fooled if you think this game is designed for pve in mind instead of Player versus Player.


Arena net has always been PvP focused, the main devs themselves are serious PvP players.


The only content you get for PvE is dynamic events which are arguably easy and 5 man dungeons.

[Delias]

You are fooled if you think this game is designed for pve in mind instead of Player versus Player.


Arena net has always been PvP focused, the main devs themselves are serious PvP players.


The only content you get for PvE is dynamic events which are arguably easy and 5 man dungeons.

Let me guess, GW1 was also a 'PvE game with some PvP content'?
So dumb.
Oh well, believe what you will, just don't spew your misinformation all over the forum where people who might actually believe you can read it.

Also, saying 'thet only content you get is dynamic events and 5mans!' can be turned around back on you by saying 'the only PvP game mode is conquest, as WvW is basically a mix between PvE and PvP.'
Sooo.. GG.

[Deyadissa]

Let me guess, GW1 was also a 'PvE game with some PvP content'?
So dumb.
Oh well, believe what you will, just don't spew your misinformation all over the forum where people who might actually believe you can read it.

Also, saying 'thet only content you get is dynamic events and 5mans!' can be turned around back on you by saying 'the only PvP game mode is conquest, as WvW is basically a mix between PvE and PvP.'
Sooo.. GG.

Actually no, Guild Wars was arguably a PvP focused game.


And you're wrong, You have COnquest Hot Join PvP, WvWvW and elo based ranked PvP.

Don't give hope to players who think there will be some awesome PvE. THe games best selling point is dynamic events, dungeons have already been done in the original.

[Deleted]

Guild Wars was arguably a PvP focused game.

GW2 isnt, get your facts right.

[Malthurius]

You are fooled if you think this game is designed for pve in mind instead of Player versus Player.

Because an MMO can't have both... right?

Arena net has always been PvP focused, the main devs themselves are serious PvP players.

"always" as in for their one other game.

The only content you get for PvE is dynamic events which are arguably easy and 5 man dungeons.

I don't know, an estimated 1500 events, Personal Story and 8 dungeons with multiple routes and 2 versions each is a lot of PvE content in comparison to WvWvW and the current 2 known and 2 or 3 unknown PvP maps.

[Delias]

Actually no, Guild Wars was arguably a PvP focused game.

Sure, 'arguably'.
You can also argue that the moon is arguably made of bacon, that doesn't make it true.

And you're wrong, You have COnquest Hot Join PvP, WvWvW and elo based ranked PvP.

So you have conquest, WvW (which I just said was more of a PvE/PvP mix. It's PvP made to feel like PvE, due to nameless masses of players. By the way, they changed the name to WvW a while ago, it no longer has two Ws. Fun fact.) and ranked conquest. Which is just conquest again. Why didn't I think of that!
Fine, then for PvE, you have dynamic events, story quests, story dungeons, explorable dungeons, and WvW. Also puzzles, exploration.. regardless, still GG. Your argument is so valid. I'm jealous, wish I had valid arguments.

Don't give hope to players who think there will be some awesome PvE. THe games best selling point is dynamic events, dungeons have already been done in the original.

Cool story, PvP was in the original too. Again, nice argument!
GW1 also had GvG, which GW2 doesn't have. Obviously, we should all go back to playing GW1, because by your standards it's better in every way.

[Squirrelbanes]

Yh...the whole dynamic pve content of DEs is totally focused at a pvp game.
Wake up.

[Deleted]

Guild Wars 2 is in no way shape or form a competitor or rival of World of Warcraft simply by the fact that IT IS NOT A SUBSCRIPTION MMO.

I stopped reading there, and it's a shame because it could have been a nice discussion. If you're already saying that, because of no subscription, GW2 is not a competitor or rival for WoW, then you are probably blind.

Then you're throwing around random number ( probably pulled out of your sock ) and state that it makes no sence?

10 million people playing WoW = 100.000.000 dollars each month
1 day of servers keeping up = aprox 131.000 dollars x 30 = aprox 4 million each month.

Even IF they didn't had subscription, their online store would keep the servers running + Blizzcon tickets + Arena Passes + expansion each 2 year + people starting WoW + actions + others sales

Your whole " subscription fee blabla " is amazing me. GW2 will keep itself alive through the online store + the people playing this game. We all chip in 5 dollars a year for this cute set, and they're happy for a year.

PS: The numbers are from a grid that got posted a while ago. I'm not saying the grid is accurate, but I just pull those numbers in my calculations.

[Morgaith]

I don't think that's a legitimately assessment. Both WoW and GW2 are aiming to be as balanced as possible as far as PvP and PvE accessibility goes, they're just going about it in different ways.

Well, if we look at how good wow balance has been since vanilla i guess we can say that gw2 won't have a chance.


/Sarcasm

[Systam]

On your one point wow has officially become the easiest game overall pve wise, with the introduction of 1.2 in SWTOR and the bonus boss in Kaon, SWTOR has some encounters equal to that of the hard bosses in burning crusade heroics.

Wow is coming off its worst expansion by far which has also given life to GW2, when GW1 came out it was competing with a very strong content in wow but it still managed to sell 4 million copies. This time around I think they can sell at least 50% more copies.

If MoP ends up being another flop, GW2 and SWTOR will be the MMOs to play in the NA/EU regions.

did you say burning crusade heroics were hard? it was a matter of how much cc you had in your group never was hard lol