splitting 25man and 10man. the way it was before

[Talen]

There was no problem balancing the two sides because there was really only one way you could go.

And that presented its own brand of issues.

With cata, people no longer needs 25 man to do raiding nor to get the best gear, so it is here things went wrong.

It can only be seen as wrong if you believe 25s have some special right to be "better".

so lets just hope they keep the LFR system to 1 place in MOP

That'd kinda defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?

I think the cure for people QQing over the current raid system, is to simple get back the Wrath or TBC model back and implement it. It would fix many of the things that people are tired of, and it would give blizzard a chance to get a new start on a projekt that i think, has gone completely wrong

It would fix the issue by forcing people to do 25s whether they really want to or not. AND it would reintroduce the problems suffered by TBC and LK groups which the current system avoids.

The real big problem with the current system is simple. And it isn't the difficulty settings between the formats. Thats never going to be perfect and it is a strawman argument...it doesn't matter whether its perfect or not since its what Blizzard is aiming for, and thus what it will aim its rewards at.

No...the real issue is that the current system cannot make an allowance for the difficulty in organsing and maintaining a 25 man raid group. Thats a difficulty inherent in the actual format. As a result, there are far fewer players willing to create such a group, with the effect there are fewer slots. The workload for many of these people can no longer be justified by the rewards of 25s and so they go 10s.

Would they prefer 25s? Some would...but overall, considering everything, all the factors including fun, friends, feeel, format preference, the workload to form and maintain the raid, they prefer 10s.

Which also presents the solution...make 25s easier to set up and maintain. ****OR*** incentivise people to lead raids. Better rewards for the 25s.

EJL

[orderschvank]

I'd rather in whatever raid size I want. Make it the same difficulty and loot quality and do whatever you want with it. You like 25-man and don't want it do die off? Good, I support you, but don't try and force everyone else into 25 setups if they don't want to.

you are under the illusion that 10 man is equivalent in difficulty to 25 man. lol

[Knightblade]

25 mans were so epic. All those people made it more fun. Man, do I miss GDKP's. Made so much money......

[Deleted]

Humans are like electricity. Both of them will choose a path with least resistance.

10-mans are easier to organize.
10-mans usually have much better atmosphere compared to 25-mans. People are more relaxed in a smaller group of people => everyone knows each other better. *
10-man enrage timers aren't as tight as they are on 25-man difficulty. You can bring suboptimal raid group (or low DPS) and still succeed. **
25-mans drop slightly more loots for each person, but 25-man bosses still have a chance to drop 2 or 3 (??) times the same item. ***
10-mans do not need spare players. It is much easier to find 10 players with 100% attendance than finding 25 players is. Obviously there are exceptions.
It is much easier to deal with 10 players. Much less drama and problems with adapting to different tactics.

* Personal experience
** Enrage timers are same on both difficulties. Check www.worldoflogs.com for statistics. Most 25-man kills are ~1 minute longer than 10-man kills are.
*** In my opinion 10-mans are in a better spot here. Obviously it is faster to gear up few guys on 25-man difficulty, but it still takes longer to gear up the whole raid.

And as a note; I am former 25-man raider (TBC -> T11) who converted into 10-mans when Firelands was released, and I think 10-mans are in a way better spot right now. I'd like to return to 25-player raiding, but running 25-man guild is too much trouble and not enough rewarding anymore.

ye ??? i wait since the first Week of Heroic DS for my Rings to Drop. while every 25man Guild got it for every Member ... Gearing People is and will be always easier on 25man unless they change something

[Talen]

you are under the illusion that 10 man is equivalent in difficulty to 25 man. lol

They aren't.

Neither are they far enough apart to matter, especially sicne Blizzards aim and strategy is that they are roughly equal.

EJL

[Modify]

if they would return to wotlk raiding our entire guild would quit straight away.

As for LFR, they will have a raid finder setting for every new raid instance introduced from now on. You realize that right

[Rhyseh]

Personally I preferred it when you didn't have the choice. You raided 25 man because that was the only difficulty.... None of this 10m, 10m HC, 25m LFR, 25m Norm and 25m HC crap. One raid, one difficulty = less drama.

[Mormolyce]

Sub numbers kept on increasing when 25 man raiding was the pinnacle, as soon as they switched to 10man being equal it went down. Coincidence?

Sub numbers went down as soon as they removed the keyring. COINCIDENCE!!???

[Malefic]

Please don't create threads just to respond to another very active thread. Just respond to the other thread.