2.2 UPDATED~ Arsenal Bounty Hunter: Are YOU Doing It Right?

[Forsedar]

Hi people, thanks for the very informative thread been following it for months. I'm looking forward to further updates.
I have a couple of questions gearing wise.



I'm slightly confused as to why we want 0 Crit now...? I don't want to make you repeat yourself so please feel free to link me the explanation (I think I read the whole thread but I might've missed it) I feel like you will explain yourself in the next sections leads nowhere... Just looking at skills we didn't gain an auto-crit or anything so I'm slightly puzzled as to why we would want 0 of it. Surely a moderate amount might be beneficial. Is it the case that the softcap is now so high and the per point increase to damage is so low compared to a point of power that it is far inferior to the point we may aswell have none?

And one thing towards the new mitigation vs tech and force. Does this change anything? For example towards our relics? Serendipitous Assault maybe? Arkanian Kinetic Tempest now carries Force for some reason.

Crit is now on an absurdly high DR (diminishing return). Remember why we hardly went over 75% Surge? Its for that exact reason. The amount of value you get from rating itself lessens the more we have, except this time more dramatically. In essence, we gain more from stacking OTHER secondaries now instead of getting Crit up there.

[Syzyx]

the deminishing return for crit is so high that its not possible to get there with mods and enhancements.. So stacking power and surge after you get 100% accuracy is yielding a higher dps than you would if you went with battle enhancements and nimble mods.. Since power has no diminishing return unless you have 8000+ (not possible) like Matt said... its much better to stack power and surge once you get to 100% accuracy since using nimble mods and battle enhancements takes away power, the resulting amount of crit is no where near the amount of dmg you do with low crit rating.

[Forsedar]

So the rotation you have on the front page... just wondering if im reading it correctly...

tracer, explosive dart, tracer, (power surge) Electro net, (TSO) Fusion missile, tracer, heatseeker, unload, RS ?

Did explosive dart get a dmg increase and I missed it?

To answer your question: No. Explosive Dart still sucks for single target. HOWEVER, ramping up your heat as much as possible in the beginning is what we want to do, since Vent Heat gives us 10% Alacrity now for a short duration. Alacrity has been fixed in comparison to your heat dissipation, so when Vent Heat is used, you will drop from *insert whatever heat level you're at* to 0 rather fast and almost stay there for the remainder of its duration and the Alacrity buff duration.

As an example (again): I found myself using Explosive Dart while running from the shields during NiM Tanks. Its just an ability factored in to be used while moving, which like I said, seems to be what most people do when setting up positioning at the beginning of an encounter.

Now, if you think about current fights, we're not really just standing still and sometimes we're running in at the beginning. Running ---> Tossing up a Tracer Missile and then continuing to move to your position while using Explosive Dart allows the GCD to basically be off by the time you're set up. Then you toss up a Tracer Missile which generally hits as Explosive Dart goes off.

Now, I liked this because it allowed me to have no downtime while setting up positioning at the beginning of an encounter. The Power Surge + TSO is combined with Fusion Missile for obvious reasons and Electro Net is used prior to that. The rest of the rotation is what we have been used to for the past year, as with the priority (minus Rail Shot being as popular because of the recent changes).

[Syzyx]

Right.. thats what I was hoping you would say..

I tend to use it when running into position as well but, normally im just moving when the GCD ticks by or when my heatseeker and rs is on cooldown.. To see it as a part of our normal rotation was a bit off put.. May want to state why its there and when we want to use it.

[Requiem4aDr3am]

This is correct, with the new augments and Full Arkanian, you're looking at a .08 DPS loss with overkill vs aim...pretty much a wash.....I wouldn't stress about which ones you use guys. Whatever you got on is fine, if you don't have any, stick with main stat.

---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 12:16 PM ----------



Hey Req, I believe you, I've heard others claim this, would you mind posting a parse or some kinda verification so we can see the increased crit rate on TM by double stacking Set bonuses? TY in advance!

sorry for the delay. Odd when I switched out my aim augs for power augs I received a 17 bonus dmg increase. Maybe my aim is too low though. I didn't get any upgrades until last night and was still using mk-6 augs until I raise my crew skills on other toons to make the mk-9s. Perhaps I was wrong I'll have to go back to the drawing board I guess. Ill post a parse with the crit rates sometime this week. Having a few health issues atm so not sure if I'll be on until the weekend.

[Leadsop]

What are you guys seeing as far as damage output in relation to the entire raid?

I have always been the top (Gunnery) Trooper DPS in <Severity Gaming>, but this past week was severely busy with work and got to level 55, but did not have time to gear up and get the initial S&V 16 HM clear with the guild. Back at work again now Monday and can't test right now, but I am hearing complaints about people feeling like our damage got some nerfbat in relation to other DPS classes.

Are you guys seeing that? I had always assumed that with our changes, we are now more mobile, less reliant on Grav/Tracer, and thus our output should be higher.

One of you guys who is pretty well-geared at the moment... can you give some thoughts?

[Requiem4aDr3am]

http://www.torparse.com/a/179916

Lucky I guess I had left combat logging on for days and not noticed, but it caught last nights raid in there. Pardon the terrible dps but you can see from a majority of the fights my tracer missile crit % is usually 55%+. I have 22.79% crit when fully buffed/stimed.

[Deleted]

Lucky I guess I had left combat logging on for days and not noticed, but it caught last nights raid in there. Pardon the terrible dps but you can see from a majority of the fights my tracer missile crit % is usually 55%+. I have 22.79% crit when fully buffed/stimed.

Is that with the oldskl 2pc set bonus?

[odawgg]

What are you guys seeing as far as damage output in relation to the entire raid?

I have always been the top (Gunnery) Trooper DPS in <Severity Gaming>, but this past week was severely busy with work and got to level 55, but did not have time to gear up and get the initial S&V 16 HM clear with the guild. Back at work again now Monday and can't test right now, but I am hearing complaints about people feeling like our damage got some nerfbat in relation to other DPS classes.

Are you guys seeing that? I had always assumed that with our changes, we are now more mobile, less reliant on Grav/Tracer, and thus our output should be higher.

One of you guys who is pretty well-geared at the moment... can you give some thoughts?

I haven't played my merc much yet since it went live cuz we pushed 8 man world progression all week, and with some peeps derping the pre-order for early access, my tank was needed. But, I can tell you that during pts, myself, a sniper, and two mara's, all of which are at the top of their class were all performing within 1-2% of eachother in just about every fight. With the new changes since 2.0 went live, it can only be better, not worse. I wouldn't worry. I actually did get to play a quick tfb sm the other day and beat all of them on both Whithering Horror and Operator IX. they had already had started gearing from our S&V and TFB HMs and I was sitting in dread gear. These are AoE friendly fights, so we know our AoE is still beastly

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 07:36 PM ----------

http://www.torparse.com/a/179916

Lucky I guess I had left combat logging on for days and not noticed, but it caught last nights raid in there. Pardon the terrible dps but you can see from a majority of the fights my tracer missile crit % is usually 55%+. I have 22.79% crit when fully buffed/stimed.

Woot! ty for posting that, was going to test it myself, but still need to get another Ark/Und piece as I've been primarily tanking this week.

I did some quick theory-crafting and this setup seems significantly better than upgrading to 4 piece with underworld gear. Thx again!

Edit: Hopefully it doesn't get updated/fixed, but i would think that is to come at some point

[Forsedar]

Currently in a debate with fellow Mercs in the guild about the importance of Power and how we should not shoot for Crit Rating. I know I'm not always right, but dropping hundreds of power for just 3% crit feels like something NOT to do.

[odawgg]

sorry for the delay. Odd when I switched out my aim augs for power augs I received a 17 bonus dmg increase. Maybe my aim is too low though. I didn't get any upgrades until last night and was still using mk-6 augs until I raise my crew skills on other toons to make the mk-9s. Perhaps I was wrong I'll have to go back to the drawing board I guess. Ill post a parse with the crit rates sometime this week. Having a few health issues atm so not sure if I'll be on until the weekend.

And honestly my calcs coulda been wrong I wouldn't take my word for that. the whole power vs. main stat, since crit is involved isn't something I'm good with when it comes to theorycrafting....I'm still up in the air on augments, just leaning towards reflex

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 08:02 PM ----------

Currently in a debate with fellow Mercs in the guild about the importance of Power and how we should not shoot for Crit Rating. I know I'm not always right, but dropping hundreds of power for just 3% crit feels like something NOT to do.

yeah I feel you on that...just don't know for sure, the main arguments for crit that I can think of are that we get 30% bonus damage to critical heat seeker missile AND unload hits, and then the alacrity if ur spec'd into it, which I wouldn't put much weight on...but the crit bonus damage on HSM and UL might be worth noting?

Edit: Those two abilities sometimes combine to 45% of our damage. getting a 30% additional surge to crits definitely adds to the value of crit, how much, not sure. On second thought, knowing that I could do a guestimate, maybe later tonight when i'm bored lol.

[Forsedar]

And honestly my calcs coulda been wrong I wouldn't take my word for that. the whole power vs. main stat, since crit is involved isn't something I'm good with when it comes to theorycrafting....I'm still up in the air on augments

---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 08:02 PM ----------



yeah I feel you on that...just don't know for sure, the main arguments for crit that I can think of are that we get 30% bonus damage to critical heat seeker missile AND unload hits, and then the alacrity if ur spec'd into it, which I wouldn't put much weight on...but the crit bonus damage on HSM and UL might be worth noting?

I suppose, but more steady damage from power instead of % based seems kind of more reliable. I guess we'll see over time. I'm doing what I believe and they're doing what they believe so I guess whoever parses higher wins haha.

[Syzyx]

What relics are we going for now adays?

I'm still sitting with dread guard relics.. boundless ages and kinetic tempest.. And what really sucks is that I never did enough pvp on my merc to get a war hero boundless ages.. still sitting with a battlemaster relic of boundless ages.. I'm wondering if its best to ditch the kinetic tempest and go back to straight power relics because our tech crit is uber low..

[MMomery]

perfect thanks

[Keren]

btw, welcome odawgg to find your way here, too

What relics are we going for now adays?

I'm still sitting with dread guard relics.. boundless ages and kinetic tempest.. And what really sucks is that I never did enough pvp on my merc to get a war hero boundless ages.. still sitting with a battlemaster relic of boundless ages.. I'm wondering if its best to ditch the kinetic tempest and go back to straight power relics because our tech crit is uber low..

I'm very sure that we what that shiny new AP procc relic. As far as the test of my guildmade went, different Itemlvl of those relics can proc simultaneously. That way we get about 8 ap fpr 6 sec, each 20 seconds. What a fucking awesome way to hit your target into death :P
Second thing, as already mentioned, we did have a special relationship about crit. With enhanced surge talented and the possibility to use the double + 15% crit on TM (dont know if it works, dulfy states it doesn't) we really have some strange attachments and aversions. One speeks for, one against mroe crit...

As some of you already know, I will update my spreadsheet in next comings weeks to 2.0. This will give some really good possibilites to try different things out. It models real combat in a much shorter time without ever making human mistakes. Btw. I like to tease

[Leadsop]

I think it's in flux quite a bit. In talking with some people last night, I am fairly convinced that the class changes for 2.0 are not finished. Remember kids, ROtHC technically just got full release yesterday...

[Requiem4aDr3am]

Is that with the oldskl 2pc set bonus?

Yeah I'm using the old DG 2 pc combined with the new UW 2 pc. Because of the use of both sets for 2 15% boosts to TM it makes stacking crit pretty much worthless imo. TM critting 55%+ of the time with stacked power/surge is plenty of dmg. The only downside is we lose 16 aim per armoring when we keep these 2. But hey losing 32 aim is totally worth gaining 30% crit to TM.

---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 07:14 AM ----------

What relics are we going for now adays?

I'm still sitting with dread guard relics.. boundless ages and kinetic tempest.. And what really sucks is that I never did enough pvp on my merc to get a war hero boundless ages.. still sitting with a battlemaster relic of boundless ages.. I'm wondering if its best to ditch the kinetic tempest and go back to straight power relics because our tech crit is uber low..

I upgraded to the arkanian versions of kinetic tempest and boundless ages. I worked the math out but Im too lazy to repost it here. Came out to a few more dps from each. I'd like to point out though that the golden fury drops a relic that is for both healers and dps that is pretty amazing. Sniper in our guild got it and it works out to about 1.5X the dps of the ark/uw relics. It also has a seperate proc from kinetic tempest which he confirmed after testing. The proc on the relic gives like 450 power for 6s every 20s with a 30% chance of activation. I however forgot the exact name of it.

[MattiasV]

Serendipious Assault I think is the name. There's an underworld version of it as well. There used to be an arkanian version on the vendor, but it was removed before going live.

[Forsedar]

Dom, which version of the relic is that? Because there is a version that gives well over 500 power. We did Golden Fury on HM so I assume that the 450 power version is from that? Either way, the 450 Power proc isn't *that* great. Anything under 500 power for those trinkets will be a net DPS loss (assuming you're using updated relics).

[odawgg]

I suppose, but more steady damage from power instead of % based seems kind of more reliable. I guess we'll see over time. I'm doing what I believe and they're doing what they believe so I guess whoever parses higher wins haha.

Haha Tushay

---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 09:41 AM ----------

btw, welcome odawgg to find your way here, too



I'm very sure that we what that shiny new AP procc relic. As far as the test of my guildmade went, different Itemlvl of those relics can proc simultaneously. That way we get about 8 ap fpr 6 sec, each 20 seconds. What a fucking awesome way to hit your target into death :P
Second thing, as already mentioned, we did have a special relationship about crit. With enhanced surge talented and the possibility to use the double + 15% crit on TM (dont know if it works, dulfy states it doesn't) we really have some strange attachments and aversions. One speeks for, one against mroe crit...

As some of you already know, I will update my spreadsheet in next comings weeks to 2.0. This will give some really good possibilites to try different things out. It models real combat in a much shorter time without ever making human mistakes. Btw. I like to tease

Thanks Keren and I very much look forward to the updated sim!

Regarding the Serendip Assault Relic....This was done by an annhi mara, so take it for what it's worth, but my guildie did some testing on the PTS comparing the SA and BA relics. Theoretically if the SA were to proc every 20s it would be valued higher, but actual testing were as follows (at least with this limited testing. these were all 7-8min parses.

"During parses with Underworld SA, the procs, when noticed, are very sporadic and generally proc during the "off-cycle"(meaning outside of priority window) of a rotation. In comparison with the same gear minus the relic, the parses show a great degree of difference in overall dps, more testing should be used to validate finding but my hypothesis would argue the use of Underworld BA over Underworld SA, just due to the fact that a player can control the use, during "high-rise priority rotations".

Parse w/ Underworld SA
2659.89DPS - PowerProc Relic - CritOV 36.27
2696.34DPS - PowerProc Relic - CritOV 36.31

Parse w/ DreadG BA
2720.81DPS - PowerUse Relic - CritOV 37.2
2757.54DPS - PowerUse Relic - CritOV 34.91"

at least it's a starting point for testing these relics.

Another note on relics. If you recall (most of you probably still wearing it) the Dread guard relic of Kinetic Tempest does "kinetic Tech Damage". Now the new relics are really confusing to me. Cuz the Arkanian and Underworld Relic of Kinetic Tempest says "Kinetic Force Damage" and the Cerulean Nova says "Energy Tech Damage". I know we don't do Force damage, so according to the tooltip, that would not be the one to get...but on teh other hand, wth is energy tech? UL and Rapid shots are energy, but not tech...TM/HSM/RS are tech but not energy.

If anyone gets a relic token before me and wants to test them, note that you can buy a relic, test it, and return it back to vendor to get another one to try out.

Edit: It's quite possible the tooltips are just an error, need to test to find out