2.2 UPDATED~ Arsenal Bounty Hunter: Are YOU Doing It Right?

[MattiasV]

Yes, and the arkanian relic of elemental transcendence deals 241 damage. Which is a lot lower than the 284 you'd get from cerulean nova.

[odawgg]

Mattias beat me to it again >_<

[MattiasV]

ha ha, I'm bored so checking all the forums I visit frequently tonight

[Forsedar]

I work all day, so whenever I come across to my guide- people have already answered questions that were asked.

GIVE ME MOAR TO DO.

[Keren]

change the guide to reflect trooper :P

[Leefty]

HSM has the same "heat per second" cost as tracer Missile, the only difference being one is front loaded while the other happens at the end of a cast. So using HSO with HSM is basically the exact same thing as using it with TM.

By using HSO with Fusion Missile, you're replacing a TM with FM that hits significantly harder.

I'll 2nd what Mattias said on TSO, FM hits hard, it's just not worth 25 heat... Which makes it perfect for TSO cuz it's an ability that wouldn't otherwise be used. HSM is already relatively heat efficient. You can experiment if you are not convinced but I can vouch for FM to be the highest dps usage for TSO.

In regards to EN usage, it should be used on cd just behind Rail Shot and HSM on the priority list (so 3rd on list since those are 1&2). As long as you're following proper heat priority rules leading up to it you shouldn't have to worry about where your heat is at to spam it.

Darn, I forgot to take into account that "instant" abilities are not actually instant but they span 1 GCD :P

So that would make the "heat efficiency" priority as (from lower to higher heat):

Unload = Electro Net < Rail Shot < Death from Above < Tracer Missile = Heatseeker Missiles < Fusion Missile


Also, judging from various parses, the average DPS would be something in the lines of (higher to lower):

Heatseeker Missiles >= Rail Shot > Tracer Missile > Fusion Missile (direct hit) >= Unload > Death from Above > Electro Net > Fusion Missile (DoTs)


Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see how FM can hit harder than TM (even if you add the DoT damage). Also I see 0 crits for FM (direct hit), why is that? In any case, with the above view, I would go for TSO + TM and not TSO + FM, especially in heat-intensive situations. Apart from the damage factor, TM gives me the chance to proc Unload, which I consider to be the ideal heat/DPS combo during heat-intensive situations.

[Keren]

taken from my sim. DPS per Cast and DPS per Heat - for FM you should add the daamge from the DoT

[Leefty]

Basically, I was referring to the average damage (total damage / number of hits) of each ability that portrays how "powerful" an ability is, therefore how important it is to use it as soon as it is available. Or, to re-phrase that: how important it is to make sure that all the right conditions are met (heat level, procs, buffs, debuffs) in order to be able to use an ability as soon as it comes off CD.

With that in mind, my prios are:

Heatseeker Missiles => target has the Heat Signature debuff AND heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Rail Shot => I have at least 4 stacks of Tracer Lock AND heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Tracer Missile => heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Unload => Barrage has procced AND heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Death from Above => heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Electro Net => heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Fusion Missile => TSO is off CD???


What the sim also shows is that Unload is indeed the most heat-efficient/DPS-yielding ability. The list goes:

Unload > Rail Shot > Heatseeker Missiles > Death from Above > Tracer Missile > Electro Net > Fusion Missile


IMHO, the use of HSM, RS, EN, DfA, even FM is pretty straightforward: use off CD and possibly in combo with another ability (i.e. TSO). The baseline issue of the rotation is:
assuming that Vent Heat is on CD (and not coming off soon) how do you combine TMs and Rapid Shots in order to maximize the chance of proccing Barrage (and consequently use Unload) AND keep the heat in a level that will allow you to use your other abilities on CD.

[Keren]

I trimmed my first table to much, sorry... [btw. numbers are with Kell Dragon]

EN has 10 ticks (initial included) with 1211,93 avg dmg. thus making 12119,3 damage for a complete run or ~8403 damage for the invested casttime (1,4423).
FM has 6 Ticks plus initial hit with 6590,71 overall for a complute run or 4569,6 for the invested casttime (1,4423).

Thats the reaon we use them over normal TM if we are in a timeframe where the barrage proc is still on its inner cooldown of 6 seconds.

2.0 Priority System

Heat > 24: Rail Shot > TSO + FM > Rapid Shots*
24 > Heat > 17: Rail Shot > HSM > EN > TSO + FM > UL > TM
Heat < 17: HSM > EN > UL > PS + TM

*Should also be used when HSM/UL cd=<1.5s and heat is at or above 20 (as well as Rail Shot - 4 tracer locks minimum if using new 4pc).

I always try to plan my rotation around the next few gcds. One Unload cast will need 3s, a precasted tracer (the check to procc barrage will be done when the ability is completly casted.) will need another 1.5s. Thus 4.5s of the 6s inner cooldown are mostly planned.
You see its way to tight to have everything on cooldown and be always on the spot to trigger the next possible barrage. Nevertheless you will need to utilize the other abilites and keeping them on cooldown. Decide between RAIL and HSM depending on Heat and shuffle the rest around. Unload dont need to be casted straight after the cd reset, because time giving is the inner cooldown of the talent and not how long your unload is on cooldown in comparison to RAIL and HSM...

[odawgg]

Leefty I have something to add to what Keren said to go into more detail on your exact question....but it will have to wait till lunch or some kind of break I get at lunch

[Forsedar]

Breaks... I wish I had them.

[odawgg]

Breaks... I wish I had them.

I shouldn't be, but I'm too addicted to forums to stay away during work.

What I did back when 2.0 was still on PTS was I took data from dummy parses and combined them. My goal was to figure out exactly what you are trying to figure out. I wasn't satisfied with other people doing the work (even though I just ended up with the same conclusion as people had before me) I wanted to fully understand why the priority system was the way it was and if I could spot anything that would make it better.

I could have just as easily used damage formulas to get these numbers but at the time I was still a little uncomfortable with using those formulas to accurately depict damage so I figured I'd just use the data I already had from parses. I basically took all the damage values, calculated the raw base damage by dividing out the crit/surge factor from the parse, then recalculated the crit/surge value based on what the crit 'should' have been to get theoretical damage for each ability. Use this for reference and keep in mind this is all done with Ark gear with maybe a 72 MH but that's it so disregard values in comparison to what we can now shell out with our gear...the relative damage comparing abilities to one another is still relevant. Also note I was using new 4pc set bonus on the PTS:



BTW you could also just look at your tooltips for abilities to see rough damage values for abilities, but they don't take everything from skill trees/proc rates etc into account.

So that would make the "heat efficiency" priority as (from lower to higher heat):

Unload = Electro Net < Rail Shot < Death from Above < Tracer Missile = Heatseeker Missiles < Fusion Missile

This looks right if you use the common time frame of 3s so they can all be compared.

Also, judging from various parses, the average DPS would be something in the lines of (higher to lower):

Heatseeker Missiles >= Rail Shot > Tracer Missile > Fusion Missile (direct hit) >= Unload > Death from Above > Electro Net > Fusion Missile (DoTs)


Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see how FM can hit harder than TM (even if you add the DoT damage). Also I see 0 crits for FM (direct hit), why is that? In any case, with the above view, I would go for TSO + TM and not TSO + FM, especially in heat-intensive situations. Apart from the damage factor, TM gives me the chance to proc Unload, which I consider to be the ideal heat/DPS combo during heat-intensive situations.

This is where you're assumptions are a bit off. The data I posted is listed in DPS order so you can see what the actual highest to lowest dps abilities are. They are simply calculated by using avg damage for the ability divided by cast/GCD time and I include the DoT for FM.

To respond to your last paragraph there regarding trying to proc unload and use TSO with TM instead of always using it with FM....there's a couple things to factor in, first of all, it's only a 45% chance to proc barrage...if it was guarenteed to proc barrage, maybe that would be a theory to explore but I don't want to think about theoreticals atm . Ideally sure, you want to use TSO+FM when procing a barrage is on internal cd...but it's not something you focus on, you have to kinda play it by ear, If barrage just proc'd and heat is >17 I'll go ahead and use my TSO+FM but if barrage hasn't proc'd I'll wait till my heat is up there around 30 to us it so i give myself the chance to proc before using...but like I said it's really not something you need to dwell over. FM hits too hard to prioritize proc'ing barrage when it comes to TSO. The only ability I make CERTAIN barrage is on internal cd for is DFA. Cuz this is a great ability to add to single target rotation, but is only a significant dps gain if barrage is on cd.

Basically, I was referring to the average damage (total damage / number of hits) of each ability that portrays how "powerful" an ability is, therefore how important it is to use it as soon as it is available. Or, to re-phrase that: how important it is to make sure that all the right conditions are met (heat level, procs, buffs, debuffs) in order to be able to use an ability as soon as it comes off CD.

With that in mind, my prios are:

Heatseeker Missiles => target has the Heat Signature debuff AND heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Rail Shot => I have at least 4 stacks of Tracer Lock AND heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Tracer Missile => heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Unload => Barrage has procced AND heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Death from Above => heat level is well below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Electro Net => heat level is below 40 (or Vent Heat is off CD)
Fusion Missile => TSO is off CD???

Keren has already posted my priority system but I'll expand on it a bit.

What goes into creating priority system for mercs? Abilities that hit hardest should go high...sure...but there's more to it as you already know. Abilities that have cds should be higher than ones without and short term cd abilities come before long term. Which is why Rail/HSM has higher priority than EN, even though EN has higher dps and great heat efficiency, if you push that back 1.5s it will have little to no affect on an encounters dps whereas pusing back HSM would essentially take away 10% ((1.5GCD/15s cd) HSM damage away from a total parse and replace it with soemthing that hits less hard. (note: even so, don't delay EN too long, it hits too damn hard and heat efficient to let it sit off cd, keep it prioritized just below RAIL/HSM). Abilities with high dps/heat ratios should be higher. That's why Rail shot belongs at the top, it's not our hardest hitting ability but it's pretty good AND it's super low heat. On top of that it creates a 1.5s cushion to look at ur heat and abilities you want to use every time you use it, it also allows for a potential HVGC vent heat to come in before the next ability potentially allowing a RAIL SHOT>HSM combo when you wouldn't normally be able to do the reverse order of a HSM>RAIL Shot combo due to current heat.

Now of course they all depend on the heat cost and your current heat-standing so that's why you see 3 different heat windows posted...there is actually an additional heat window that EN would fit into since it's only 8 heat so technically you can use that up to 32 heat. Those heat windows represent where your heat is at when you go to activate the ability not where it will be after it's finished casting...i.e. even though TM will not put you over 40 heat if you begin casting at 30 heat, it will put you at an in-opportune position coming out of it if you do this. You should be more-so thinking about how you can keep you heat as close to 0 as possible without actually hitting it, rather than what can you use to keep it under 40...if that makes sense? By doing this, you will always be in position to use your big hitting abilities when you need to.

The baseline issue of the rotation is:
assuming that Vent Heat is on CD (and not coming off soon) how do you combine TMs and Rapid Shots in order to maximize the chance of proccing Barrage (and consequently use Unload) AND keep the heat in a level that will allow you to use your other abilities on CD.

Every time I proc barrage, I'm queing unload so it will be triggered instantly...assuming my only abilities off cd are TM and rapid shots, I follow that unload with TM>RS>TM or sometimes RS>TM>TM depending on my heat coming out of unload. The important thing is to:

1. Stay in the 0-40 heat window during these next 3 abilities
2. Finish the 3rd ability at 24 heat or less
3. The 3rd ability is a TM...why? cuz the 3rd ability after a barrage proc'd unload is where you have the chance to proc another one. You don't want that 3rd ability to be RS cuz you just backed up the time you will proc another barrage by 1.5s (GCD).

Expanding again on what Keren mentioned about looking ahead a few GCDs...prepare for popping Rail/HSM by fluffing a rapid shots (depending on heat of course) when the cd hits <= 1.5s on one of these abilities...remember, using these 2 abilities as close to cd as possible is your TOP PRIORITY! (aside from not under/overheating )

I have to stop there I will go on forever.

[Keren]

would have nearly argumented that myself. would just make a little addition to your last paragraph:

Every time I proc barrage, I'm queing unload so it will be triggered instantly...assuming my only abilities off cd are TM and rapid shots, I follow that unload with TM>RS>TM or sometimes RS>TM>TM depending on my heat coming out of unload.

"abilities off cd" is the key phrase. Even when you procc Barrage with your latest TM, as long as there are HSM / RAIL / DFA / TSO + FM free to use -> priorize them over Unload. Mostly it will come down to:

TM with Barrage > CD-Ability > Heatcontrol > Unload > TM or
TM with Barrage > Heatcontrol > Unload > CD-Ability > TM

Unload itself, EN, TSO + FM and Rail Shot can be used to control heat - giving enough space to control heat and utilizing HSM on CD

• always be casting (ABC-Rule) will net you APM
• stay alive will net you time to damage
• controlling heat will give you control about your ressources
• Juggling abilities around CDs will net you higher dps
• knowing the fight to use rest phases for passive dissipations or dmg multiplier to stack hard hitting things

[Leefty]

Thanks guys for all this incredible info

Still reading ...

[Forsedar]

Thanks guys for all this incredible info

Still reading ...

Everyone has definitely contributed in their own way to give this spectacular thread!

[Leefty]

What is still a bit of a fuzzy point for me is the passive heat dissipation issue. We get 4% alacrity, 3% from HVGC and 1% from System Calibrations, which actually pushes our GCD from 1.5'' to 1.44''.

At the same time we have Terminal Velocity which vents 8 heat every 6''. At this 6'' window (which by the way coincides with the internal CD of Barrage) we have the chance to get a +3% alacrity (from Critical Reaction) and a +10% alacrity if we use Vent Heat. That is a maximum of 17% alacrity, which would make our GCD 1.245'' for those 6''.

Is this something to factor in when prioritising abilities or is it too much of a detail to be able to track down during a fight?

[Deleted]

Everyone has definitely contributed in their own way to give this spectacular thread!

First post has to be updated, no? Prior-abilities have changed

[odawgg]

What is still a bit of a fuzzy point for me is the passive heat dissipation issue. We get 4% alacrity, 3% from HVGC and 1% from System Calibrations, which actually pushes our GCD from 1.5'' to 1.44''.

At the same time we have Terminal Velocity which vents 8 heat every 6''. At this 6'' window (which by the way coincides with the internal CD of Barrage) we have the chance to get a +3% alacrity (from Critical Reaction) and a +10% alacrity if we use Vent Heat. That is a maximum of 17% alacrity, which would make our GCD 1.245'' for those 6''.

Is this something to factor in when prioritising abilities or is it too much of a detail to be able to track down during a fight?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I pay exactly zero attention to my alacrity procs I just know that when I vent heat that I have a window there where I can spam whatever I need to. Keeping track of terminal velocity is doable on a dummy but I can't realistically pay attention to that in a boss fight.

The only thing I do run into regarding alacrity is the annoying Rail/HSM cds often have like .2s left after a GCD runs out and I have to make the arguable decision of whether to wait .2s and activate those or to cast something else (ABC) backing up my usage of those by 1.2ish seconds. The rule I personally try to follow in this case is if I can fire a TM (when barrage proc is possible) and still be in a good enough place with heat to fire Rail/HSM after I will do that, but otherwise I wait instead of using a rapid shots filler.

[Forsedar]

Sounds like exactly what I do Odawgg.

I don't pay attention to my Alacrity proc because I know it will be there when it wants to be there and doesn't really affect which abilities I would like to use at the time. If Unload is being used when its up, great, if not then oh well.


I, too, have noticed the timing issues when going from Railshot to HSM. Sometimes I will wait out the .2 or whatever seconds depending on whats going on. I do that more than I will put in a filler, as sometimes if I know there is going to be movement right after I may as well get off a filler and use the instants when I'm moving right after.

[Maban]

So I have been a little busy with not being able to get on here as of late.

A couple of things that pizza brought up looking at my log that was very interesting.

1. Was that he made a guess that I was precasting tm and canceling it if I had a proc on barrage. That is right I am doing that it is more work but means less time wasted looking for a proc and reacting to it imho.

it also means the time for me to see the proc and cancel the tm is time im losing heat when others may not.

As for apm im not very worried about it tbh. Im guessing its counting actual key pressed rather then abilities hitting a target. And on a funny point my apm may be lower but since relocation to the harb my latency has gone from 40ms to 280ms at best. In real terms it means every single ability I attempt to activate im pressing 3 times at the least so in real terms my apm is about 90ish haha

I think the point about dfa is a good and valid point. The extra casts of it seem to increase dps and then its a case of maintaining that dps. I tried using it off cd last night on the council and got 3k dps at one point with minimal heat issues. It does seem to "buff" a dps log in that regard.

im still not convinced that rs should be included in a rotation ifthere is no heat problems. I do use it from time to time and it varies on fight but certainly not a higher priority on my ability list to proc crit reaction or get a higher apm.