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  1. #1
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    Final Fantasy's Decline

    Once upon a time, the name 'Final Fantasy' carried with it expectations of quality story telling combined with state of the art visuals and were a joy to behold. What happened?

    In order to appear deep and complex you're bombarded with nonsense from the start. Most RPG's will build up the nonsense gradually to allow you to understand it and relate to the characters motivations.

    Auto battle means you now have little involvement in the battle. You might as well be watching someone else play.

    Cardboard acting - They probably did their best with the material at hand.

    Hopefully the next offline installment will feature proper story telling and Characters you can at least Sympathise with.

    Review of FFXIII-2

    RIP Final Fantasy

  2. #2
    Brewmaster slackjawsix's Avatar
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    i liked 13/13-2 my only problem is the combat could be a little more involved to simple atm otherwise i love the 2 games
    i live by one motto! "lolwut?"

  3. #3
    well i just got 13-2 today and uhmm i dont see it declining infact that game is very good

  4. #4
    I don't like 13's storytelling, am not a fan of the cliche writing (even if the characters are ok), and think the music's fallen a bit compared to Uematsu's work, but if there's anything I'm going to heap ridiculous amounts of praise on in 13 and 13-2, it's the battle system. Auto-battle is a pathetic excuse to not like what is the second most well-designed combat system in the entire franchise. Paradigm shifting and the broad strategy of a very deep battle system is your involvement, and, in my opinion, it's far superior to the tedious minutiae of old JRPGs.

    My problems are mostly with, as I said, the storytelling. It's uneven, cliche, and stuck in its ways. Should have continued going in 12's direction.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawsix View Post
    i liked 13/13-2 my only problem is the combat could be a little more involved to simple atm otherwise i love the 2 games
    Basically my thoughts, thought the story in XIII-2 could use some work = / . Not to mention I like the old atb system where the bars would wait for to pick your attack, cause most of the time i just use auto attack (old beauces you gib your self other wise).

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    The creator of Final Fantasy actually left Square after Final Fantasy X. I liked 11, 12 and 13, but they are noticeably different than the ones under his direction. The whole fact that they expect me to pay for the ending of 13-2 after I've already paid for a collector's edition. There is NO excuse for that.

  7. #7
    I liked XIII-2. The story started off a bit slow, but got a lot more interesting at the end. The battle system was nice, and the time warping fun.

    I'm not saying that XIII's story couldn't have been better, but I liked it in the end. I do wish they had put a lot more focus on Lighting all around, and I was disappointed she wasn't in the sequel more.

    But I wouldn't at all say Final Fantasy is in decline with XIII-2.

  8. #8
    Final Fantasy has been running steadily into the ground since 7. It is a shame really.

  9. #9
    Every video game ever made always has 'a bad story'. People then say they want 'deep characters' or some other subjective trait. -_-

  10. #10
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Final Fantasy has been running steadily into the ground since 7. It is a shame really.
    I didn't find it so much as a steady decline but rather a nose dive after Final Fantasy IX. Obviously this is all based on my own personal opinion, but I couldn't stomach anything after FF9. It is indeed a shame. I've been buying all the Final Fantasy games up to 13 but just had to hammer that last nail in the coffin. This series has moved on to something new, and it's not something that is of interest to me anymore.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Every video game ever made always has 'a bad story'. People then say they want 'deep characters' or some other subjective trait. -_-
    And that's why we debate and discuss and why video game development, writing and reviewing isn't some immobile mass of 'this is quality and nothing else is'.

    Subjective doesn't mean we can't argue for or against it.

  12. #12
    I definitely agree with the OP. FF4 to FFX were GOLDEN.
    FF12 and FF13... if I were the father of Final Fantasy, I would disown them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aoyi View Post
    The creator of Final Fantasy actually left Square after Final Fantasy X. I liked 11, 12 and 13, but they are noticeably different than the ones under his direction. The whole fact that they expect me to pay for the ending of 13-2 after I've already paid for a collector's edition. There is NO excuse for that.
    I remember hearing about that. I forgot what company they ended up making, but it their games weren't that good either.
    I've also heard that there was a creative rift in the company, which actually gives me hope for FF13 versus.
    If FF13 Versus sucks too... I think I might be done with the series.

  13. #13
    Different people have different opinions, I personally in the

    VII > X > VI > V > IX > I > IV > XII > X-2 (forgot to put XIII in, prolly ahead of XII, I disliked the action RPG feel to 12)

    Rest, I have not completed, but i actually am a big FF collector, in the past year I have about every copy of ever FF game I could get my hands on (Japanese as well, and I don't speak it), every time a new game comes out and someone doesn't like it it's a new low.


    This sentiment has been held in every FF game ... in NA atleast, VII comes out, people say its a new low, it's turned into a show, VIII same thing, VI same thing (3 here in NA).

    Times change, and in turn, people dislike it, a game most people have, is Final Fantasy X, I heard people say both ways, it sucks and its great, personally I thought X was fantastic, suffered a bit due to poor voice acting.

    In general however, JRPG's are declining, in number, this is a generation of FPS, and WRPGs, and JRPGs are falling behind, and thats okay, there are still good games to come out of this period, Lost Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles (need to finish), and Tales of xx (Graces F, and Vesperia are good games)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    I definitely agree with the OP. FF4 to FFX were GOLDEN.
    FF12 and FF13... if I were the father of Final Fantasy, I would disown them.



    I remember hearing about that. I forgot what company they ended up making, but it their games weren't that good either.
    I've also heard that there was a creative rift in the company, which actually gives me hope for FF13 versus.
    If FF13 Versus sucks too... I think I might be done with the series.
    Mistwalker. Made Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, both very respectable JRPGs.

    FF13 Versus is a Nomura game. Expect the story and characters to be even more ridiculous than KH.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 11:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dupree View Post
    Different people have different opinions, I personally in the

    VII > X > VI > V > IX > I > IV > XII > X-2 (forgot to put XIII in, prolly ahead of XII, I disliked the action RPG feel to 12)

    Rest, I have not completed, but i actually am a big FF collector, in the past year I have about every copy of ever FF game I could get my hands on (Japanese as well, and I don't speak it), every time a new game comes out and someone doesn't like it it's a new low.


    This sentiment has been held in every FF game ... in NA atleast, VII comes out, people say its a new low, it's turned into a show, VIII same thing, VI same thing (3 here in NA).

    Times change, and in turn, people dislike it, a game most people have, is Final Fantasy X, I heard people say both ways, it sucks and its great, personally I thought X was fantastic, suffered a bit due to poor voice acting.

    In general however, JRPG's are declining, in number, this is a generation of FPS, and WRPGs, and JRPGs are falling behind, and thats okay, there are still good games to come out of this period, Lost Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles (need to finish), and Tales of xx (Graces F, and Vesperia are good games)
    Xenoblade and Radiant Historia give me a lot of hope for the genre's future in storytelling.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evisiling View Post
    Once upon a time, the name 'Final Fantasy' carried with it expectations of quality story telling combined with state of the art visuals and were a joy to behold. What happened?

    In order to appear deep and complex you're bombarded with nonsense from the start. Most RPG's will build up the nonsense gradually to allow you to understand it and relate to the characters motivations.

    Auto battle means you now have little involvement in the battle. You might as well be watching someone else play.

    Cardboard acting - They probably did their best with the material at hand.

    Hopefully the next offline installment will feature proper story telling and Characters you can at least Sympathise with.

    Review of FFXIII-2

    RIP Final Fantasy
    And MAN, is Final Fantasy a boring game to watch.

  16. #16
    I have all Final Fantasy games from 4 on wards and always considered myself a big fan, having figurines and the like of my favourite characters... however I simply could not get through FF13. I fell asleep so many times during combat because it was SO BORING.

    It is not complex or involving, choosing a tank heal dps or tank dps support lineups is not deep or engaging and auto battle does everything for you, its completely disengaging and just plain boring. This is compounded by the fact you only directly control 1 character instead of the whole party.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zillionhz View Post
    By fiber be purged

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yalingo View Post
    I have all Final Fantasy games from 4 on wards and always considered myself a big fan, having figurines and the like of my favourite characters... however I simply could not get through FF13. I fell asleep so many times during combat because it was SO BORING.

    It is not complex or involving, choosing a tank heal dps or tank dps support lineups is not deep or engaging and auto battle does everything for you, its completely disengaging and just plain boring. This is compounded by the fact you only directly control 1 character instead of the whole party.
    If you went through the whole game with nothing but those 2 Paradigms, then you got pretty damn lucky or went through battles ridiculously slowly.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    If you went through the whole game with nothing but those 2 Paradigms, then you got pretty damn lucky or went through battles ridiculously slowly.
    I agree with Caiada here (also remember the easy mode(?)), but keep in mind the following, if they removed the auto-battle most people wouldnt know how to play the game even (and if they leave it as it is, we got people like what we have here). Someone mentioned FF12? I doubt you did anything worth noticing if you think that.

    FF 13/13-2 battle system is one of the best I seen in the series, so is FF 12. I can tell how much someone knows when they state something like "beat the whole game on auto-battle without paradigms shift". In fact I want to see your kill of the last boss in FF13-2 if you managed to get there.

    Things change, and we got people still stuck in the past. DS and the like has many games of the likes if you want. If you think you are entitled to your opinion at least have a valid one (Not talking to Caiada here btw). Dont fart and say "here is my opinion". Where is Digglet, she usually here OO

  19. #19
    You have to understand that like most products ,the FF development team is on a certain budget and with that budget has to create a product that will entice consumers to purchase it.The problem is that the more technology advances the easier it is to create an appealing product (mostly via visual and audio) without paying so much attention to storyline,or characters.With the notable exception of IX which featured cartoonesque characters,every final fantasy past the 16-bit era has slowly been declining towrads visual endearment at the cost of storyline.

    In other words,FF 6 is the best,FF 7 is a close second,the rest are a downward decline towards eventual complete shittiness.But people will keep buying them regardless because of the power the franchise carries,and the fact that visually they're going to only get better (remember that most of the target group is also fans of anime,hence that visual style appeals).

  20. #20
    FF XIII I found to be a hit and a miss at the same time.

    The Good:

    The characters have good voice acting and relatively lively people potraying them. The story, once it actually starts to unfold after the first half of the game, is not too bad. It could be better, and it could be worse. The ability to see mobs and therefore avoid unnecessary battles whenever possible was a godsend I hadn't experienced since Chrono Cross. It really felt a lot better than the "hoodie hoo ho hum laa dee d..BRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAP!" sudden combat syndrome FFs prior to FF XII had. The worst offender, FYI in the "scare the crap out of me for no reason random battle system" was FF VI, where the moment you initiated a battle the game would do that "BRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!" sound and the screen would very rapidly zoom in->out->in literally scaring the daylights out of a lot of people (especially if it was late at night and you were playing in the dark).

    The music in this game is actually pretty good. There are a few "WTF" tracks in there, but most are nice. The main problem with the music wasn't its quality, but the slow pace of many tracks. It quite literally put me to sleep a lot (Archylite Steppes anyone?). My only complaint on the music came from the actual soundtrack CDs where the main battle theme header was shorter than the in-game main battle theme header (it played phase 1 only once instead of twice with the second pass adding the secondary strings instruments).

    The Paradigm system felt really good once you got the hang of it. Customization here helped, a lot. It was nice to be able to shift from the Holy Trinity (Tank, Heal, DPS) to Heal/DPS/DPS or an all DPS, or Tank/Healx2 setup. And unlike FF XIII-2, you didn't paradigm shift left and right in most battles (you shift constantly in XIII-2).

    The controls. Thank the Gods that Squeenix finally figured out that FF XII's double inverted controls were pure shit and we needed a way to customize our analog stick setup. This was the dealbreaker for me in FF XII and why I never got past the first overworld area. The double inverted controls made the RTB system just too agonizingly frustrating to deal with. This is an RPG, not a freaking flight sim, and thankfully XIII gets it right.

    The Bad:

    The ATB system kind of got mangled in XIII. The CTB system was nice, but the "hurry up and wait" effect made battles feel like they were protracted beyond a reasonable amount. It made the trash in many areas feel like trash in early WoW dungeons and raids: too many and it took too long to kill them. Thankfully the controls were butter smooth.

    Which is more than I can say for some of the load times. While being a disc game, its load times weren't bad, but they were far from good. The ability to install the main game data to the PS3's HD (or an SSD if you put one in like I did) would have made battle loading/ending much more tolerable. Overall framerate was rather good for a game built on what is now known as one of the crappiest engines out there. There weren't too many "slowdown salad" moments, and those that were, were not in critical plot points.

    The Crystarium. It wasn't completely awful, but its linearity was a boring trip through leveling up. FF X sort of had a sweet spot in its level up paths in that you could take most any path you wanted in order to customize the character to your playstyle (until the point where you had enough AP to just plow through all of the nodes in every path) and you would have a viable character. FF XIII has literally zero choice other than "which linear path do you wish to add to now?". XIII-2 fixes much of this, but at the cost of a very confusing and not at all user friendly Crystarium interface. The UI was a flat out mess there.

    The lack of physical attacks for Sazh made him a veritable POS in many early parts of the game since his elemental attacks were weak as a newborn kitten. Most of the characters outside Fang and Lightning suffered from this type of lopsided toolbox, which made the defacto trio toward the second half of the game all but a foregone conclusion.

    The Ugly:

    The linearity. Oh dear GOD the linearity. I hadn't seen such single tracking since the days of Linear 2: Eternal BlueInTheFaceFromBOREDOM. I don't think it is possible to be spoonfed any more than XIII did for the first half of the game. And the second half wasn't any better, but for different reasons. Whereas the first half had no exploration and total handholding, the second half had tons of exploration, and literally nothing fun to do with that exploration. All, and I mean ALL of the sidequests and hunts were "kill this, bring that". I get enough of that in WoW. Not one of the sidetracks in XIII advanced the plot any other than the typical cliché.

    Speaking of...everything that could be clichéd was put into the game as such. There was enough cliché in XIII to make ten Star Trek: Voyager series, it was that bad. While most of the characters were fairly well represented (except Hope, who seemed more like a plot speed bump than a plot avenue), their dialogue and scripting was....well, let's just say the actors that portrayed them were their saving graces.

    The scripted battles. Every. Other. Fight. OMG make it stop MAKE IT STOP! I'm not sure which holds your hands more (in the perverted and sadistic kind of way): FF XIII, or Mac OS X Lion. Decent as the second half of the story was, the entire thing, most especially the first half, was just plain forced. It wasn't a natural kind of development at all.

    The install, or lack thereof. Seriously Squeenix, consoles aren't cheap. Why did you have to wear out my drive motor and laser assemblies unnecessarily when I could have had the game on an uber fast SSD instead, thus massively extending the life of my PS3?

    I want to play FF XII so badly since its story from what I hear is really good. I just can't get past the god awful controls that are worse than Galerians: ASH.

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