Ideal Raid Size or Raid Sizes combination

[Deleted]

In a previous poll, i have been asking mmo champ community if they would prefer a single size raid model, or a dual size raid model with shared or separate content per size.
Also offered a 4th choice named “other”.

As i am righting this post:
-It seems that the single size has a very solid preference amongst the site’s readers with 42,61% voting in favor of it.
-Dual size with shared content is also popular, with 31,82%
-Dual size with different content per size, even today had the preference of 23,30% of the voters.
-Anything else, had very small support with only a few readers voting for it (2,27%)

Now,
If you support a single size raiding model, what would be the ideal size?
And if you are a dual size raiding model, what would be the ideal combination of sizes?

I included the most popular choices in this poll, and added 3 “other” options, for those that feel that the ideal combination is not offered

Please vote what you believe it would be the best for the game and not having in mind your current situation as a player, or member of a given team!

This is why i didn’t include “5” or “40” option for single size, and a 5/10 or “20/40” option for dual size, for example!
If you feel that such a size or size option, would be for the best of the game, by all means press other !

I included options that require the change of the core “dungeon” group from 5 to 6 people, since i have noticed that quite a few are supporting that a change like that would greatly benefit the game

Lets see what people believe it's best!!!

[Deleted]

I voted single size 15. For 10 mans that size is not too much of a leap, it increases the likelyness of all classes being present, makes blizzard able to tune content assuming all buffs are given.

Single size is just so blizzard can put all their time in quantity and quality and not in balance between the sizes. I also think that having 2 sizes really blocks the raid design team sometimes just because they cannot figure out how to scale an amazing fight to the other size.

[Nestoras]

I also voted for a single size 15 people raid!

I do believe that at the point we have reached after more than a year of Cataclysm WoW, Dual Size model reached a dead end.

There is no turning back to a model that can provide incentives to run a larger raid to combensate for the convenience and the accesibility a small raid offers.
There is no future for the large raids as it is, and no point to keep watching a divided comunity to keep arguing for the same things for another expansion.
There is no way wow playerbase to accept the reverse solution. Easier tuning for large raids to combensate for the increased difficulty to have a competend large team vs small!

And a 10/20 or a 12/24, would be infinately better than 10/25 due to solving many of the managerial issues 10/25 caused (what an unfortunate combination of numbers really ), but...
They will continue to suffer due to the other issues related to small vs large raids (shared loot/achievements/tittles/locks or not? ----->insert suggestion here----->whine----->protest---->rage/mock----->mmo champ mods infract/ban )

So single size is the way out.
1) To start fresh
2) To stop the community being divided regarding raids and start focusing more on defeating bosses again
3) To make the designers create proper raids for a given size, like karazhan once was for 10 and SSC once was for 25
4) To make encounter designers focus on game mechanics and not to balance 10 heroic and 25 heroic version of a poorly designed due to limitations encunter.
5) To make more content available in the same time frame

And although 6 people dungeon and 18 man raid seem very interesting alternative, so much content has being designed around 5 people parties, including dungeons raids and BGs and has to be reworked.
So may the one size be 15 people raid!
a) Because there is no winner! Neither 10 man supporters would claim victory, nor the 25 man supporters.
b) Because it keeps many of the benefits from both worlds in smaller degree, reducing their weaknesses!
c) Because it doesn't require ANY transition cost. No Raid/Party UI change, no content from the past in need to be reworked!
d) Because the game might be old as many people claim, but it is by far the number one MMO in the world and it has future! Current situation caused the biggest bleeding in wow history. Keeping things unchanged is only a promise for more bleeding in subs in the future!

Vote for a change! Vote for a fresh new begining people!

[Deleted]

Make the poll the way people won't be confused by numbers. Numbers of people in raid and numbers of voters per option really twist my mind here, add something in front of raid size numbers, please.

[Deleted]

Make the poll the way people won't be confused by numbers. Numbers of people in raid and numbers of voters per option really twist my mind here, add something in front of raid size numbers, please.

I am sorry if it is confusing m8 but little i can do.
It is a poll about ideal raid size or combination or raids sizes. They are measured by the amount of people in them.

I know that the options are many, but i wanted to give readers the larger range of popular options to chose from. I wanted an objective as much as possible poll regarding a very important matter, that has been discussed a lot during cataclysm

The best size or dual size combination for the future wow!

[Shanudis]

I voted 15/30. Would be easy enough for each size to recruit 5 more people, and it would be much easier to balance. With 15 people, blizzard could assume every 15 man would be able to bring an "optimal" comp, allowing them to tune the encounters more tightly than 10 mans were most of cata (With some notable exceptions). Meanwhile 30 man raids would be a simple doubling of size, so blizzard could assume certain spread mechanics would hit 2 instead of 1 person on 15, etc.

[Ethas]

15 mans are hardly make any sense. Its the same as 10 and will be as boring.

[Fmp]

There is no ideal raid size, but for me, the more people I play with the better, I actually want to feel like I am raiding.

[Deleted]

15 mans are hardly make any sense. Its the same as 10 and will be as boring.

One part is just factually wrong, the other part is your own opinion stated as fact.

15 mans do make a certain amount of sense. In 10 mans the scenario of having every class present has become really unlikely in wotlk, and in mists it will be impossible. 15 mans make it possible and semi-likely again.
In 15 mans shifting around with the amount of healers is better possible due to a possible slightly reduced responsibility per healer, making tactical decisions a bit easier.
15 mans simply is more people, thus making encounters seem more epic (according to 25 man raiders, I personally prefer the small tactical assassination squad).

As for it being equally boring? Well since it evidently is not the same, I find that unlikely. I also know you cannot know this for a fact since you haven't had the chance to try it yet.

edit: also it is sort of a middle ground, which makes it acceptable for both 10 and 25 man raiders. More acceptable than going to either 10 only or 25 only.

[stomination]

I agree with ethas 15 mans make little sense. There is not much gained. If anything.

[Bawl]

I really would like to see them go back to only one raid size. I voted 20, but 15 works equally well. From what I can tell, 25 seems to just be a bit too much for most guilds to pull together, especially if they're looking to get a solid progression group going. And pretty much every hard fight on 10 man ends up feeling kinda gimmicky, since they have to accommodate so many varied makeups.

[wariofan1]

Single size 20. 15 is just a too little number, having gone from 40 man raiding to stay at 15 man raiding would be all too odd, it was already very odd going from 40 to 25, and even more so going from 25 to 10. 15 wouldn't feel much like a raid, just like 10 doesn't feel like a raid at all. Raiding something means that a horde of people go on and massacrate something, 15 people ain't much of a horde.

20 would be the ideal size imo.

[Deleted]

There is no ideal raid size, but for me, the more people I play with the better, I actually want to feel like I am raiding.

I agree with you there, and i implied it by asking "what you believe it would be the best for the game?"
By doing so, i ment having in mind the present situation with raiding. If people find it agreeable apparently they would go for 10/25, if not they would propose something else.
It seems that people don't find currently selected raiding sizes combination ideal.
On the other hand, it seems that there has been a lot of discussion amongst the player base regarding 15 people raids, and that is reflected in the poll results so far.

[Deleted]

I agree with you there, and i implied it by asking "what you believe it would be the best for the game?"
By doing so, i ment having in mind the present situation with raiding. If people find it agreeable apparently they would go for 10/25, if not they would propose something else.
It seems that people don't find currently selected raiding sizes combination ideal.
On the other hand, it seems that there has been a lot of discussion amongst the player base regarding 15 people raids, and that is reflected in the poll results so far.

I do fear that with the poll results 15 man raid lovers may even be a vocal minority right now.

[Racthoh]

10 doesn't have as many raid cooldowns, 25 kind of lags me out a bit

i'd prefer 15 i guess

[Deleted]

I do fear that with the poll results 15 man raid lovers may even be a vocal minority right now.

I prefer 1000 times people that are asking for something fresh and new, over more recycled 10vs25

I don't know if 15 is ideal, but i am certain that it is functional and better than 10vs25 reloaded!

[Bearshield]

I voted before reading through the entire poll (I know, derp!), I would vote for 10/20, different dungeons. Why? Variety is the spice of life. The system in TBC was by far the best for providing things to do. Have a good sized group online? Go do one of the main 25 man raids. Only have 10 people? There's Kara and ZA. Wrath's system still allowed you to do what you had the people for, or at least do an alt run on another night. The problem was, you were running the same content all week. Cata is an obvious failure with shared lockouts, because you do it once and you have nothing left to do for the week.

I personally liked the old 40 man days but frankly, there's no way we could ever get back to that model with the state of most guilds today. So many guilds are lucky to field a 10 man team or two, getting enough for 40 would be impossible. 25 is nice, but it seems you always wind up 3-5 people short anyhow so 20 makes sense.

[Nadev]

Personally voted 20 man single. As a 10 man raider, I have fun. Yet, I'd like to make more close friends to raid with and not have to worry about gimping myself compared to the people getting two runs of the instance just because they have more people.

[Deleted]

I voted before reading through the entire poll (I know, derp!), I would vote for 10/20, different dungeons. Why? Variety is the spice of life.

I agree with you on that m8!
But true variety and with 2 raid sizes that make sence, no 10/25 that created many problems during TBC!
1 10 man and 1 20 man per tier would be a dream come true!

Different raids designed around a given raid size, ohh the joy!

But blizzard is treating wow as an old game that will keep declining during MoP and they continue the same stupid 10vs25 that was one of the reasons for 2million lost subs and further server population imbalance!

[anveena]

15, it's bigger than 10 mans but not as big as 25s. The 5 extra slots should give the raid more than enough room for every buff/CD required for the encounters.