Are Mages Stagnating?

[Meillassoux]

I'm fine with mages as they are or rather will be in MoP, yes, we are not the most exciting class to play but whatever. I haven't play Fire yet in MoP but I seriously hope they really tone down the RNG-ness of it. Even though it's better in Dragon Soul than it was at the beginning of Cata, I still see my DPS jumping around wildly only because of stupid RNG. Playing a fight mostly the same way one time I'm #1, another time I'm #5 (in a 10man raid). Shit like that shouldn't happen.
It's especially frustrating when RNG alone keeps you from doing damage you know you should be able to do. e.g. on Yorsahj Heroic, ideally I'd like to build a strong combustion for the Forgotten One and Impact it around, having wild fun and insane dps. But often I just can't do it because the damn Pyro or FB just won't crit and I don't get a strong enough Ignite to be worth it. Sometimes it works and I get mad dps on all the adds, other times I just can't pull my Combustion.

We finished Dragon Soul Heroic a couple times now, maybe when we try it without the debuff it'll work better, the adds living longer, more time for dots to tick etc. We'll see.

By the way Fire's RNG problem has already been fixed in beta with Inferno Blast having 100% crit chance and with the new "semi hotstreak" indicator. Also with Combustion having only 45 sec cd fights that don't last long won't be a problem anymore.

Nothing to add about the rest you said. I agree on everything.

[Deleted]

By the way Fire's RNG problem has already been fixed in beta with Inferno Blast having 100% crit chance and with the new "semi hotstreak" indicator. Also with Combustion having only 45 sec cd fights that don't last long won't be a problem anymore.

Nothing to add about the rest you said. I agree on everything.

yep very true i agree with both of you also lets also not forget the new combust glyph Increases the CD by 100% (so 90secs) but also increases duration and damage by 100% aswell so that could be interesting, see which one wins out, im guessing once we get more haste that the longer duration will seeing as haste gives extra ticks (providing this works the same in MoP ofcourse)

the only thing i can say about combust and fire dots is we still have 0 DoT protection, granted this is from a PvP standpoint but we need some protection then id be happy with fire PvP, im not asking for a UA effect just something maybe a short disorient on the target or something, im really not sure.

[mrinvisable2]

lets talk about shmans? this is the class that have been forgotten why fix something that is working fine?

[Meillassoux]

yep very true i agree with both of you also lets also not forget the new combust glyph Increases the CD by 100% (so 90secs) but also increases duration and damage by 100% aswell so that could be interesting, see which one wins out, im guessing once we get more haste that the longer duration will seeing as haste gives extra ticks (providing this works the same in MoP ofcourse)

the only thing i can say about combust and fire dots is we still have 0 DoT protection, granted this is from a PvP standpoint but we need some protection then id be happy with fire PvP, im not asking for a UA effect just something maybe a short disorient on the target or something, im really not sure.

Yeah the fact that we still don't have any dot protection is abit disturbing. Even our mastery is based on dots. At least now with Deep Freeze in every specc we can do something about it ^^

[mrgreenthump]

yep very true i agree with both of you also lets also not forget the new combust glyph Increases the CD by 100% (so 90secs) but also increases duration and damage by 100% aswell so that could be interesting, see which one wins out, im guessing once we get more haste that the longer duration will seeing as haste gives extra ticks (providing this works the same in MoP ofcourse)

From PvE point of view, there really aint 2 questions abt it, you have to glyph it due stacking buffs, + increased damage during prepot and pot + hero timing, unless there is something evil that happens every 50 secs in the fight and you need to nuke it, i doubt anyone will walk with 45 sec cd combustion in raids..

[Lalicat]

Lalicat

Let's see how this would work out if it really was the case. Warriors are simply fighters solid and stable so they should just fight with their weapons. But no they leave a trail of fire when they charge, when they are enraged they literally burst in flames and when they thunderclap they actually produce thunder. Paladins are warriors that get powers through believing in something but they summon an angel and have wings. Priests would be simply clerics aiding their comrades but they become angels when they die (I won't even speak about shadow priests). I could mention more examples but there is no point. You are saying Mages can't be revamped. Why? Being a Mage is having the power to do ANYTHING using magic. Don't forget that Mages built a city in the sky so what's this about throwing balls around? If just throwing balls is the ideal use of having supernatural abilities for you then sorry but you lack imagination (no offense). Anything could be implemented and be correct lorewise for the mage class when warriors leave a trail of fire. (by the way I don't have anything against warriors, on the contrary I like them alot)

PS. Do you seriously like having a main nuke that looks exactly like Imp's main spell? A Fireball can be great and still be called Fireball, don't limit yourself.

After trying GW2 and seeing what happens when every class has over-the-top spell effects, I'm pretty okay with mages in terms of visuals.

When I talk about being revamped I'm talking about drastically changing the way we work (suddenly we have "charges" for certain spells, we use a difference resource than magic etc etc...) - something VERY drastic. I don't think that's necessary. When you say "revamped" what do you mean? Getting new spells? Giving current spells a new look?

No, I don't lack imagination. I'm an artist and work in design every day. In fact, I use my imagination to "fill in the blanks" if I feel that something is missing in visuals, storyline etc. It's why I love novels so much. Shouldn't that indicate a lack of imagination in someone who requires MORE visual effects, otherwise they feel that their class is stagnating?

I just don't think a major revamp of mages is necessary. I don't think we're stagnating at all. I just...I have to say, I value creativity in terms of events, raids, dungeons, storyline, quests and so on far more than whether or not my fireball is green or red or if it glows enough. Not to say visuals aren't important at all - they are, obviously - I'm just happy with the class, personally. It's clear that you don't agree, but what else can I say? Will adding some kind of visual "trail" to blink (for example) really improve your playing experience that much?

When I play my mage I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Mage is fun to me as it is.

[Ellsian]

By the way Fire's RNG problem has already been fixed in beta with Inferno Blast having 100% crit chance and with the new "semi hotstreak" indicator. Also with Combustion having only 45 sec cd fights that don't last long won't be a problem anymore.

Nothing to add about the rest you said. I agree on everything.

It hasn't fully been addressed, there are still quite a few issues with Fire mage in MOP that needs to be ironed out. The new Heating Up mechanic has a few flaws that need fixing, most notably that your distance from your target and your spells in flight can affect your timing for activating the buff. Chain casting Scorch pretty much breaks the Heating Up mechanic all together because even if you achieve a Heating Up from your first Scorch, you will not be able to activate it before the 2nd Scorch hits and ruins it. The only way to bypass that would be with a stop cast macro, and that's just bad design if we're having to resort to that. To fix this, they should make Heating Up a timed window, 4-5 seconds.

Also, Heating Up with Inferno Blast is unfortunately still tied to Fire's AOE DoT spreading, which doesn't flow well at all when setting up for AOE and then being forced to wait 8 seconds due to Heating Up/Pyroblast putting your AOE on cd. IMO, they need to let Flamestrike and Combustion reset the CD on Inferno Blast to help Fire's AOE flow better here.

Considering how awful Fire Mage was when it went live on Cata launch and how little dev attention Mage is getting MOP, I don't have my hopes up that either of those 2 problems will be addressed by launch. I can only hope that Arcane and Frost will be very viable Raiding choices instead.

[ringpriest]

Given what they're doing to priests, I'd count myself lucky to just have my class left the hell alone.

[Meillassoux]

After trying GW2 and seeing what happens when every class has over-the-top spell effects, I'm pretty okay with mages in terms of visuals.

When I talk about being revamped I'm talking about drastically changing the way we work (suddenly we have "charges" for certain spells, we use a difference resource than magic etc etc...) - something VERY drastic. I don't think that's necessary. When you say "revamped" what do you mean? Getting new spells? Giving current spells a new look?

No, I don't lack imagination. I'm an artist and work in design every day. In fact, I use my imagination to "fill in the blanks" if I feel that something is missing in visuals, storyline etc. It's why I love novels so much. Shouldn't that indicate a lack of imagination in someone who requires MORE visual effects, otherwise they feel that their class is stagnating?

I just don't think a major revamp of mages is necessary. I don't think we're stagnating at all. I just...I have to say, I value creativity in terms of events, raids, dungeons, storyline, quests and so on far more than whether or not my fireball is green or red or if it glows enough. Not to say visuals aren't important at all - they are, obviously - I'm just happy with the class, personally. It's clear that you don't agree, but what else can I say? Will adding some kind of visual "trail" to blink (for example) really improve your playing experience that much?

When I play my mage I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Mage is fun to me as it is.

First of all what do raids, events, dungeons, storyline and quests with our class. I don't remember mentioning that I don't like wow. I also didn't mention anything about Mage's mechanics. If I didn't like them I wouldn't play the class. As I said, I love Mages when it comes to practical things. My problem is the "feeling". For you it may be just visual effects, but for me it's how I feel while playing this class. Minor changes can change that. Let me give you some examples:

1) DO you remember when we could put Living Bomb on every target? That changed because it was OP in AoE situations and I understand that. But that made Fire less destructive. Also by changing Blast Wave back then to just an AoE leaded the same thing. They were not just practical changes. The fact that i couldn't make everything before me go "boom" or that I couldn't throw everyone like dolls around made Fire less appealing for me. It's not that I wouldn't play the specc anymore but it made it more boring for me. Also my problem with Fireball is not that it looks small, it is that it looks exactly like Imp's main nuke. I want to feel more powerful than a lesser demon.
2) As for Arcane, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2At...feature=relmfu) from 1:35 to 4:40, is it that weird that this looks boring to me after the first 2 minutes. Do you even imagine what a specc that manipulates Arcane in it's raw form could do? Yet we just throw small missiles. I've already said enough about Arcane in other posts so there is not reason to say more.

You tell me I lack imagination... why? Because I want my class to actually look better?

No adding a visual "trail" to blink wouldn't improve my playing experience that much but changing the visuals in more core mage skills would. You say that you have problem with how GW2 looks like. The problem is that most classes in WoW are already there (the graphics of the game are different I know). It is just Mages that are left behind when it comes to this. If you want a stable and never changing character go play an offline game. In mmos characters have to evolve.... both practically and aesthetically.

Ellsian

Yeah I know Fire still has some problems but at least the RNG is better. Not that this solves everything but someone can play at last Fire at the beginning of the expansion and not feel broken because of lack of crit.

[Deleted]

Visually arcane before cata, wow.

Every single rank of Arcane Missiles had a completely different look

It was absolutely my favourite spell. Of course I would use max rank in raids, but level 1 was like 1 missile, very periodically, it went up to 2, different patterns.. 3, 5 and doing sort of different patterns every time, different sizes too. I loved it!

Now it's like "sry can't use the coolest looking mage spell, wait for proc"