MOP Warrior Concerns.

[cFortyfive]

still can do 2 or more every six seconds

With avatar certainly.

[Flaks]

still can do 2 or more every six seconds

No, you really can't. Part of the reason why sub 20% warrior dps is so high isn't because execute is spammable, it's because it hits as hard as critting hs + op + spam together. Our rage generation is bad enough in battle stance right now that we gain 30 rage about every 4-6 seconds right now.

I'd gladly take a massive nerf to execute to have our other abilities buffed to match up. Being unable to hit for shit in PvP and not have any sustained until 20% where you become retardedly bursty makes for absolutely fucking horrible gameplay.

[Beefkow]

No, you really can't. Part of the reason why sub 20% warrior dps is so high isn't because execute is spammable, it's because it hits as hard as critting hs + op + spam together. Our rage generation is bad enough in battle stance right now that we gain 30 rage about every 4-6 seconds right now.

I'd gladly take a massive nerf to execute to have our other abilities buffed to match up. Being unable to hit for shit in PvP and not have any sustained until 20% where you become retardedly bursty makes for absolutely fucking horrible gameplay.

100% with you, its already bad enough that all of our stances are cruddy (except for defensive stance, its designed for the regenerating rage because you sacrifice dmg for survival) its hard to gain rage as fury and arms, not easy and still the new enrage doesn't help out a lot due to the fact that we need to rely on 2 abilities to crit.

[Requiel]

just did testing as SMF in 3 minutes I can do 46 (15.33 per min) executes (used cleave to simulate the same cost) on a level 90 raid boss dummy, this was in level 90 pvp gear set with 8.5% hit, this was done w/o the 5% crit buff (more enrages = more rage) or the 10% attack speed (more rage again) or cool downs. which means I could do one execute every 4 seconds or 2 every 8 second ( 2 seconds off my guess) but with raid buffed (crit and haste) I say you could come close to 2 executes every 6 seconds.

the rotation I was using was BT>CS>RB>EXE

also I should clarify what my concern was, execute is too powerful compared to our other abilities ( on EJ someone said it was a 60% dps increase on the last 20% http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t126901-..._all_specs/p8/) either the rest needs a buff or execute gets nerfed and we still get a buff to everything else.

[Siri]

Another concern with Execute being as strong as it is is that not all bosses have to be taken to 0% to die. I feel like it would be a nightmare scenario if you have a really challenging boss like LK hc and then you're only allowed to use your execute for half as long as you normally would. When it's such a large part of your dps I feel that it is a major concern.

I think it's fun that Execute hits like a freight train, I just don't think it's a very good design.

[PizzaSHARK]

Another concern with Execute being as strong as it is is that not all bosses have to be taken to 0% to die. I feel like it would be a nightmare scenario if you have a really challenging boss like LK hc and then you're only allowed to use your execute for half as long as you normally would. When it's such a large part of your dps I feel that it is a major concern.

I think it's fun that Execute hits like a freight train, I just don't think it's a very good design.

Execute hitting like a freight train causes issues in PvP as well. It's not really fair to anyone for your damage to be somewhat weak in their first 80% of HP and then the second they hit 20% they die instantly.

To me, it's just one more instance of PvP needing to be a separate game from PvE, really.

[cFortyfive]

just did testing as SMF

Well with the mentioning of seasoned soldier I was sort of under the impression that this was about arms.
Anyways having a way too powerful execute is of course not exactly great in the long run.

[Siri]

It's not really fair to anyone for your damage to be somewhat weak in their first 80% of HP and then the second they hit 20% they die instantly.

I agree, if it was just a PvE thing it could easily be fixed by just not having bosses yield at >0% health. With PvP the issue is not so simple and that's also a big part of why I think that the design isn't very good.

[Pua]

I agree, if it was just a PvE thing it could easily be fixed by just not having bosses yield at >0% health. With PvP the issue is not so simple and that's also a big part of why I think that the design isn't very good.

It’s terrible design.

Nobody’s arguing that Execute needs to hit for less, it’s simply being argued that our damage is currently being balanced by having it too low above 20% and too high sub-20%. Therefore, buffing one requires the other to be rebalanced. It’s not rocket science. And while many warriors are very worried about things like this, all we receive in builds are pointless changes to Dragon Roar so that it competes with Shockwave and won’t be hit while Colossus Smash is up.

Is that our solution for filling up GCD’s? 100% ArP on talents? Seriously? I’m STILL not going to take Dragon Roar for PvE because I can’t fill up enough GCD’s with it, and other talents are ending up mandatory for that self-same reason.

I’ve already said that DPS warriors are going to be extremely valuable in raid groups because of their unrivalled level of utility. Are we back in the world of paying a hybrid tax for it when nobody else is, or is expected to? Does our hugely increased uptime on targets in PvP carry the cost of this crappy damage and the developers have decided “oh well, if someone’s that low they’re going to die anyway; Execute is meaningless”?

This is hugely worrying, and I mean hugely. Ghostcrawler, or his warrior people, need to start opening up about this. When warriors in the world's top guilds are describing the situation as "fucking dogshit", something is grossly out of place.

[mrchee]

Another MMO Champ update, another total lack of Blue comments on the Warrior class in Beta

Looks like this crippled class is what we're getting in 5.0.

I've played warrior since before TBC (it is the only class I enjoy; I've tried all the others and literally couldnt STAND them except for my rogue alt, a bit) and I've put up with a LOT.... but 5.0 is the end.

The reason I enjoyed warrior was always the rage system, in the end. Especially when tanking. Its gone now.

If I wanted to main a rogue I would main a rogue. I want to get significant resources from taking boss hits. I want to get significant resources from raid AOE when I am DPS. I want to get significantly higher resources by gearing up my damage, NOT BY STACKING HASTE LIKE A COMBAT ROGUE.

[Deleted]

The problem is not execute being so strong, the problem is the other abilities being too weak. One is not related to the other. The fact that our other abilities are not where they should be is not due to execute being strong as it is supposed to be (as it used to be in the past).

A tweak to numbers will be needed regardless of how execute is. Our major mistake is we try to analyze the 1 strength we have and think that by changing that, it will fix all of our broken mechanics/dmg multipliers. It wont. If 100 people cry about how strong execute is - it will get "readjusted" and we will get nothing else for it. We should focus on what is not working, such as our main skills.

The problem is that currently the design intent seems to go the way of making MS (lets pick arms as an example) 175% weapon dmg (with 2 set bonus PvE) and thus leaving it at 150% in PvP. Its their way of adjusting skills accordingly without following the CS example of applying different values for PvP and PvE. And slam? It used to cost 15 or 20 rage, then they tried 30, and it hasnt changed since. There have been a couple of adjustments that were made for the worse ("Overnerf") and havent been tuned back down.

It feels like all the other classes who are tweaked down in dmg numbers start crying out loud and bitching all over the place and they are then "readjusted". Warrior community seems like they are just used to all of this (which sadly they are) and stop providing feedback, which seemingly needs to be created via 10 different threads on the same topic to be heard.

Everyone knows Ghostcrawler and the fact that he plays a mage. No one really knows anyone else (not close to as famous). That says it all.

[Leothas]

It feels like all the other classes who are tweaked down in dmg numbers start crying out loud and bitching all over the place and they are then "readjusted". Warrior community seems like they are just used to all of this (which sadly they are) and stop providing feedback, which seemingly needs to be created via 10 different threads on the same topic to be heard.

Just take a look at the general feedback thread.. the only post I have seen of a warrior providing feedback is for proction and this is about a rage issue when offtanking and switching stances...

[Pua]

Everyone knows Ghostcrawler and the fact that he plays a mage. No one really knows anyone else (not close to as famous). That says it all.

It’s clear at this point that the warrior development team (however big it is) has no competitive history with the class. The case for this fact is just far too strong, but you can’t say that on the forums without inviting wrath.

[Requiel]

Another MMO Champ update, another total lack of Blue comments on the Warrior class in Beta
.

I don't think its a lack of attention to us that warrants less blue posts, for the last week or so there haven't been many warriors posting on the feedback thread and if it is it's usually tanks going on about shield block vs barrier.

[Leothas]

I don't think its a lack of attention to us that warrants less blue posts, for the last week or so there haven't been many warriors posting on the feedback thread and if it is it's usually tanks going on about shield block vs barrier.

You are right.. Noone bothers to do it sadly..

[Requiel]

Well with the mentioning of seasoned soldier I was sort of under the impression that this was about arms.
Anyways having a way too powerful execute is of course not exactly great in the long run.

only mention seasoned soldier because the poster above used arms execute numbers, I only did SMF because I can play fury more reliably than arms on beta.

also simulationcraft people have posted dps results and these need to be taken with a grain of salt but as you will see 13 executes out does 110 heroic strikes

http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/~moellers/...or_85_MoP.html

[Asmalya]

You are right.. Noone bothers to do it sadly..

Because the previous feedbacks got told off as "You only dont understand our warrior design noobs!"
Ofc people lose intrest in providing detailed feedback at some point

[PizzaSHARK]

Because the previous feedbacks got told off as "You only dont understand our warrior design noobs!"
Ofc people lose intrest in providing detailed feedback at some point

Yep. I played beta enough to know I'm not really a fan of the new way Warriors work. It works alright for PvE, I guess - it's not like the monsters do anything but just fucking stand there - but I really ain't keen on not getting Rage from eating those 100k (now 300k these days, I guess) shatters.

[Deleted]

8) Deep wounds damage is terrible, it doesnt seem like its been combined with rend at all.

Rend has been removed - which means if you're specced Blood and Thunder, Thunder Clap will cause Deep Wounds automatically.
Colossus Smash has no stance requirement.
Battle Stance increases all damage done by 10%, Berserker Stance increases damage done by Whirlwind and Cleave by 20% - which means you're going to be switching to Berserker Stance while AoE'ing.
Spell Reflection no longer has a stance requirement.

[meathead]

I don't think its a lack of attention to us that warrants less blue posts, for the last week or so there haven't been many warriors posting on the feedback thread and if it is it's usually tanks going on about shield block vs barrier.

i said that last week.i went threw the wow thread and see like 2 warrior posts in the last 4-5 pages.

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 10:01 AM ----------

execute is fine and inline with other ability's like it.you people asking/saying it should be nerfed are crazy.MS/OP ect need to be buffed,nothing about warrior damage needs nerfing.