Pro gun rights but would never own a gun...agree?

[Tasttey]

No, I'm not surprised at all. There was a total of nearly 15000 murder in the US in 2010. 9300 of those was involving firearms. 15000 is equal to 4.8 pr 100000 population. source. In Denmark that number was 0.85. Source.

Here's the interesting note, if you scroll down you'll see they broke down some of the countries into regions, looking at the US the highest rate was and still is in Washington, DC a city which has the strictest hand gun laws in the nation. Up until 2008 it was illegal for any private citizen to own a hand gun, a Supreme Court decision ruled the previous ban on hand guns unconstitutional and it was replaced by a strict set of regulations concerning the owning of a hand gun within the District.

However it is poignant to note that since the ban was lifted in 2008 the intentional homicide rate in DC has dropped to a record low, nearly half of what it was 10 years prior.

[MyDisciple]

The trick is, that people aren't perfect. There will always be criminality and murder. Murder is easier with a gun. If people were perfect, we didn't even need guns at all.

Murder is easier with a gun? you can kill someone just as easily with a knife a bat a hammer a chair or a freaking pen. It doesn't matter if you're a 250 pound bodybuilder, if someone who knows what they're doing decides to ambush you they're going to hurt you. That aside, why present a hypothetical that will never happen? You admit people aren't perfect.

[Deleted]

I am pro gun but anti handgun, shotguns and carbines can defend your home better than a handgun.

[obdigore]

Murder is easier with a gun? you can kill someone just as easily with a knife a bat a hammer a chair or a freaking pen. It doesn't matter if you're a 250 pound bodybuilder, if someone who knows what they're doing decides to ambush you they're going to hurt you. That aside, why present a hypothetical that will never happen? You admit people aren't perfect.

It IS easier with a gun. You don't have to be that close, you don't have to be able to look into their eyes, you don't have to get blood on you, all of that detaches you from the fact that you just killed another thinking, living, breathing person.

A small hole in a chest with a little wet stain around it does not have the same psychological impact as stabbing someone a couple times or crushing their skull with a bat. Don't even pretend it does.

[Fuger]

Yes it's a tool, but the tool is only made to kill/harm other humans beings. Excluding the collectors and the hunters of course. And yes, you can kill with a knife as well. But a knifes primary function is to cut vegetables/fruit/meat. And it's easier to kill with a gun than with a knife.

I can use a gun to scare off wildlife.

I can use a gun to break a macadamia nut.

I can use a gun to start a fire to stay warm.

I can use a gun to make art.

Also, it is way harder to kill with a gun than a knife. The gun just requires a little bit of stability where as the knife requires skill. I can sneak into someone's house and kill them in their sleep with a knife. A gun will kill them but getting away with it is more tricky.

Also, to kill with a knife requires a hell of a lot less chemical energy. Making it actually better in most cases that apply to premeditated murder. Where as a gun is more like the surprise murder or a lack in creativity.

[Deleted]

Murder is easier with a gun? you can kill someone just as easily with a knife a bat a hammer a chair or a freaking pen. It doesn't matter if you're a 250 pound bodybuilder, if someone who knows what they're doing decides to ambush you they're going to hurt you. That aside, why present a hypothetical that will never happen? You admit people aren't perfect.

A gun can kill from distance, which means that you can kill your target without him/her being able to defense himself/herself. Being able to kill people so easily also gives the criminal a huge boost in confidence. I'm sure that there would be less murder if people only killed eachother with knives.

[Fallen Angel]

Yes it's a tool, but the tool is only made to kill/harm other humans beings. Excluding the collectors and the hunters of course. And yes, you can kill with a knife as well. But a knifes primary function is to cut vegetables/fruit/meat. And it's easier to kill with a gun than with a knife.

Why do people keep saying they are only for killing people, but then they admit to them having other uses (sport, collecting, hunting)? A knife's purpose is not to cut vegetables/fruit/meat, its purpose is to cut. Period. A fork is used to stab and lift things; not food, not people, but just to stab and lift.

[Every Pwny]

I wouldn't own a gun myself, but I'm not against people owning guns if they wish, just like I wouldn't be against someone owning a bow or a sword. I also see a lot of blank statistic being thrown around with crimes committed with a gun, but I would wonder how many of those were committed with legally obtained firearms as opposed to illegally obtained ones.

I think a lot of people simplify this argument too much with general ideas and fear, and that is one of the reasons I don't care for mob rule.

[Deleted]

Why do people keep saying they are only for killing people, but then they admit to them having other uses (sport, collecting, hunting)? A knife's purpose is not to cut vegetables/fruit/meat, its purpose is to cut. Period. A fork is used to stab and lift things; not food, not people, but just to stab and lift.

I mentioned that my argument excluded stuff like collecting, sport-shooting and hunting animal. And the people who first used a knife used it for cutting stuff so they could eat their food easier, aka cutting fruit/vegetables/meat.

[Seegtease]

Why do people keep saying they are only for killing people, but then they admit to them having other uses (sport, collecting, hunting)?

You mean "It only has one purpose if you don't consider all the other uses" is NOT a good argument? Man... I was gonna say a knife is only for stabbing humans if you don't count cutting food, boxes, and pretty much anything else.

[Fuger]

A gun can kill from distance, which means that you can kill your target without him/her being able to defense himself/herself. Being able to kill people so easily also gives the criminal a huge boost in confidence. I'm sure that there would be less murder if people only killed eachother with knives.

Bows, Slings, Atlatle, spears...

There are many ways to kill others from a distance. My favorite would be traps. Put lithium in their oil based skin products or their peanut butter if you want them to eat the pain. Remove the wooden supports under their carpet and leave disease covered sharp objects underneath. Flip over their mattress and force metal spikes in between the springs in case they plop onto their bed.

Traps are the best for an unsuspecting target. Guns can be traced, heard, and smelled.

[alzoron]

Switzerland
7.8 million people, 2 million privately owned guns, 1.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Honduras
8 million people, 500 thousand privately owned guns, 82.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Why does a country with a quarter the guns have 82 times the number of homicides?
Answer that question and think about it a little and you'll understand things a little more clearly.

[Deleted]

Switzerland
7.8 million people, 2 million privately owned guns, 1.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Honduras
8 million people, 500 thousand privately owned guns, 82.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Why does a country with a quarter the guns have 82 times the number of homicides?
Answer that question and think about it a little and you'll understand things a little more clearly.

Their people are just more violent, same with many countries around the world.

[Aethilus]

If someone wants a gun, and they're illegal, they will get a gun, it will just be gotten illegally.

Similarly, if someone wants illegal drugs, they will get the illegal drugs.

The same applies to many other issues.

The end of the story is: If there is a demand, there will be a supplier. I and pro gun rights because there is absolutely no problem with a law abiding citizen holding a gun for their own defense. Some crimes of passion are committed by those who were previously law abiding citizens who held legal firearms, but that easily cancels out with the number of people who have saved their own lives or the lives of others with their legally owned firearms from those who were either committing those crimes of passion, or those were committing crimes with illegally owned weapons.

[obdigore]

Switzerland
7.8 million people, 2 million privately owned guns, 1.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Honduras
8 million people, 500 thousand privately owned guns, 82.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Why does a country with a quarter the guns have 82 times the number of homicides?
Answer that question and think about it a little and you'll understand things a little more clearly.

Because our societies are quite different? Think about it a little and you'll understand things a little more clearly.

[Cybran]

Switzerland
7.8 million people, 2 million privately owned guns, 1.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Honduras
8 million people, 500 thousand privately owned guns, 82.1 homicides per 100k people per year.

Why does a country with a half the guns have 82 times the number of homicides?
Answer that question and think about it a little and you'll understand things a little more clearly.

*with 1/4th of the guns

Living conditions, all the Swiss who own guns go over military training first, Guns are better registered, etc.

[announced]

Melpo speaks the truth.. the more armed a society is the less likely people are to get robbed..

if u walk into a bank with an ak47 and you have the only gun.. u could easily rob it.. but if u walk into a bank and everyone has a gun.. your not robbing it anytime soon.. it may seem true that people feel like more guns only makes problems worse... that is just an irrational fear of guns.. the same can be said for cars.. people just need to get used to them.. safety on never point it at some1 basic stuff like that.

the fact is criminals already have the guns.. they dont need to pass by laws or feel intimidated by them. criminals dont play by the rules and law abiding citizens deserve the right to defend themselves.

[Kathranis]

No, I'm not surprised at all. There was a total of nearly 15000 murder in the US in 2010. 9300 of those was involving firearms. 15000 is equal to 4.8 pr 100000 population. source. In Denmark that number was 0.85. Source.

Honestly, if everyone in Denmark owned a gun I don't think their murder rate would increase much. There are a whole slew of socio-economic issues that factor into the issue.

Most gun violence in the US occurs in low income urban areas and is particularily associated with the drug trade. Big urban cities have far worse gun violence than the rural areas where all the "gun-toting republicans" live.

The're also the fact that crime (including violent crime) has been dropping consistently in the US since the '80s.

The fact is that about most of the firearms sold or obtained in the US are obtained illegally anyway. Obviously there needs to be a crack down on enforcement of gun laws, far more than a blanket ban on firearms. The government needs to enforce the current laws more strictly rather than create more laws that'll probably just be poorly enforced.

[obdigore]

Honestly, if everyone in Denmark owned a gun I don't think their murder rate would increase much. There are a whole slew of socio-economic issues that factor into the issue.

Most gun violence in the US occurs in low income urban areas and is particularily associated with the drug trade. Washington DC has far worse gun violence than places where the "gun-toting republicans" live.

The're also the fact that crime (including violent crime) has been dropping consistently in the US since the '80s.

The fact is that about most of the firearms sold or obtained in the US are obtained illegally anyway. Obviously there needs to be a crack down on enforcement of gun laws, far more than a blanket ban on firearms. The government needs to enforce the current laws more strictly rather than create more laws that'll probably just be poorly enforced.

One of the big problems is that at gun trade shows you can purchase pretty much anything you want and not have to get any kind of background check or really have any kind of registration because of a loophole in the federal gun laws.

[flam]

I'd rather have one and not need it, then not having one and needing it.