Retri patch 15650

[Valedus]

The nerf was a PvP nerf it was out of control spamming Hammer of Wrath.

Yeah, pretty much exactly what I was saying.

and Reith, how are you testing the level 90 talents, I thought we could only get to 88 (honestly curious, as I'd love to do it with my own character if possible.)
I agree that class-wide skills need to scale with AP and SP both, and Eternal Flame needs to either
A) not cost holy power (uninteresting then)
B) be undispellable/have punishment for dispelling, otherwise why not just WoG? Perhaps make it undispellable if cast on self? Recuperate isn't dispellable.

I agree that a FoL would heal for more as a Holy Pally, but if you account for the fact that Ret is a dps class, compare an ability like selfless healer to other dps classes. Not many classes have the choice for life-saving defensive abilities like selfless healer.
The fact though, is that until Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield are spell resistant, I don't think Ret will be that interested in them. Especially with the power of Selfless Healer, I know I am not (especially with recent change for SS to increase FoL crit instead of WoG.)
I have no complaint about Repentance resetting swing timer. We will be one of few melees with a spammable CC (if you choose to take it.)

[Reith]

and Reith, how are you testing the level 90 talents, I thought we could only get to 88 (honestly curious, as I'd love to do it with my own character if possible.)

Before the spellpower change patch I hovered over the tooltip switching from heroic Slicer to heroic Vagaries of Time and it showed higher damage on Holy Prism with heroic Vagaries, which is ridiculous.

I agree that class-wide skills need to scale with AP and SP both, and Eternal Flame needs to either
A) not cost holy power (uninteresting then)
B) be undispellable/have punishment for dispelling, otherwise why not just WoG? Perhaps make it undispellable if cast on self? Recuperate isn't dispellable.

It'd be a lot better if it was undispellable if used on self. We'd have some semblance of survivability, then.

I agree that a FoL would heal for more as a Holy Pally, but if you account for the fact that Ret is a dps class, compare an ability like selfless healer to other dps classes. Not many classes have the choice for life-saving defensive abilities like selfless healer.

You're missing the point. Other classes ALREADY have life-saving abilities in the form of CCs, which are far more versatile than straight heals. Most other classes have more CCs and many of them can be used offensively and defensively.

The fact though, is that until Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield are spell resistant, I don't think Ret will be that interested in them. Especially with the power of Selfless Healer, I know I am not (especially with recent change for SS to increase FoL crit instead of WoG.)

I'm just unhappy with that entire set of talents, to be honest. 2 of them are completely useless for PVP because offensive dispels are too powerful. There is no choice there and they've failed to make it a choice like they said they would.

I have no complaint about Repentance resetting swing timer. We will be one of few melees with a spammable CC (if you choose to take it.)

Not taking Burden of Guilt means you better have a damn good DPS partner doing all your slowing for you, or get used to never using Seal of Truth again - that and closing the gap will be significantly more difficult. Mages (or melee DPS) can also take the opportunity to interrupt you when you do that too.

[Deleted]

yea I guess you are right. It's hard anyways to make any predictions about how good abilities are cus we dont know how much health we'll have.

[Valedus]

Before the spellpower change patch I hovered over the tooltip switching from heroic Slicer to heroic Vagaries of Time and it showed higher damage on Holy Prism with heroic Vagaries, which is ridiculous.


It'd be a lot better if it was undispellable if used on self. We'd have some semblance of survivability, then.


You're missing the point. Other classes ALREADY have life-saving abilities in the form of CCs, which are far more versatile than straight heals. Most other classes have more CCs and many of them can be used offensively and defensively.


I'm just unhappy with that entire set of talents, to be honest. 2 of them are completely useless for PVP because offensive dispels are too powerful. There is no choice there and they've failed to make it a choice like they said they would.


Not taking Burden of Guilt means you better have a damn good DPS partner doing all your slowing for you, or get used to never using Seal of Truth again - that and closing the gap will be significantly more difficult. Mages (or melee DPS) can also take the opportunity to interrupt you when you do that too.

Well, I will probably end up taking BoG anyway, because a ranged hamstring is SO good, but I could see Ret/Frost Mage/Heals (for example) that would use Repent/Fist of Justice, it will be very comp based.
Honestly, I think that Eternal Flame needs to be changed to do this:
Undispellable on self, and any overhealing = absorb shield up to 50% of the total heal or something (Prot doesn't like that a majority of the time it will be overhealing, and now their mastery buffs WoG...)

And yes, other classes DO have CC's, but a Ret PvP can take Repent and he suddenly has a CC, along with Sac and BoP. I think a few changes need to be made, but overall I like the direction the class is going.
And even if you use SoJ instead of Truth, I think some people would be willing to drop Truth for a 30 sec CD HoJ that is ranged.
About the only tier of talents that I don't like the ideas of (scaling like the 90 talents can be tweaked, after all, and most definitely will be once there is actual testing done with them) is the healing tier. 2 of them are totally out of the question for Ret PvP, as dispells are so strong. I would say the Eternal Flame change to make it a sort of Recuperate for us would be fine, and Sacred Shield (now that it costs nearly 20% of our mana...) needs to punish someone for dispelling it. Perhaps blow it up as a heal for 75% of the total absorb? A sort of lifebloom effect if it is dispelled? (We'd lose the chance to throw FoL's with 30% more crit chance, but honestly how often is Ret going to do that?)

[Reith]

This isn't in any tooltip, but I just checked and it's something I have been thinking they should do: Exorcism's cooldown is now also affected by haste. It's not much but it helps a little bit.



Just checked Pursuit of Justice and it is now working properly, too. 140% movement speed with 3 Holy Power.

[Whitestrake]

On the "everything is scaling with SP," thing, why not make stuff scale with either SP or Attack power, depending on which is highest. Cause didn't the Draenei racial do that for a while before it went to a flat percent?

Also: Why the hell did they change SS to affect FoL? I've been saved more times than I can count from the extra WoG crit chance. I was somewhat okay with it consuming HP, but the FoL change really ticks me off.

[Requital]

This isn't in any tooltip, but I just checked and it's something I have been thinking they should do: Exorcism's cooldown is now also affected by haste. It's not much but it helps a little bit.



Just checked Pursuit of Justice and it is now working properly, too. 140% movement speed with 3 Holy Power.

PoJ is going to be good for Ret PvP since a lot of time we have hopo stored and have no method to unload it.

[Bolt66]

Did TV get buffed or is this from a previous patch? My tooltip is showing 312% weapon damage + 694.

[Valedus]

On the "everything is scaling with SP," thing, why not make stuff scale with either SP or Attack power, depending on which is highest. Cause didn't the Draenei racial do that for a while before it went to a flat percent?

Also: Why the hell did they change SS to affect FoL? I've been saved more times than I can count from the extra WoG crit chance. I was somewhat okay with it consuming HP, but the FoL change really ticks me off.

I think it was to nerf Prot PvE, with all the WoG buffs they are recieving. They would be Selfless Healer Ret's on crack right now, TBH.
Not saying I agree with it though.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 03:56 PM ----------

PoJ is going to be good for Ret PvP since a lot of time we have hopo stored and have no method to unload it.

The only problem I see with PoJ is gap closing if the gap is created right after you TV or some such. I also love LAOTL, so IDK. The fact that it has no range restrictions is really nasty.

[Reith]

Did TV get buffed or is this from a previous patch? My tooltip is showing 312% weapon damage + 694.

doesn't feel like it got buffed at all and my tooltip still says 260%.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 04:19 PM ----------

I think it was to nerf Prot PvE, with all the WoG buffs they are recieving. They would be Selfless Healer Ret's on crack right now, TBH.
Not saying I agree with it though.

It's a big mess at the moment with them trying to find ways to balance each spec without screwing up the other ones..

[marinos]

Yeah my tooltip says 312% too,just logged on beta to check it.

[Bolt66]

doesn't feel like it got buffed at all and my tooltip still says 260%.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 04:19 PM ----------


It's a big mess at the moment with them trying to find ways to balance each spec without screwing up the other ones..

Well my tooltip has changed and mine used to hit for ~25k where as now it's more around 33k.

[Reith]

Well my tooltip has changed and mine used to hit for ~25k where as now it's more around 33k.

Have you tried deleting your cache and then logging in? I did that and it still says 260% for me so I don't know what to tell you.

[JayJay09]

Have you tried deleting your cache and then logging in? I did that and it still says 260% for me so I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe you guys are different level and maybe skills become noticably (tooltip) better when you level up?

I know that my might gives me now 2k mastery rating, while it gave me ~1600 when I was lvl 85.

[Reith]

Maybe you guys are different level and maybe skills become noticably (tooltip) better when you level up?

I know that my might gives me now 2k mastery rating, while it gave me ~1600 when I was lvl 85.

I'm level 85 on it at the moment so that might be it... and Blessing of Might gives me 1042 mastery at level 85.

[Bolt66]

Well mastery wouldn't change the % weapon damage on the tooltip and I wasn't aware that they were scaling that up according to level. Isn't the whole point of using % weapon damage that it will scale by itself? Also Marinos seems to have the same tooltip, I will check again though next chance I get unless someone else can confirm either way.

[Reith]

Well mastery wouldn't change the % weapon damage on the tooltip and I wasn't aware that they were scaling that up according to level. Isn't the whole point of using % weapon damage that it will scale by itself? Also Marinos seems to have the same tooltip, I will check again though next chance I get unless someone else can confirm either way.

It's probably 260% at level 85 to keep damage relatively the same at 85 as live while they intend it to be higher damage at higher levels.

[marinos]

It's probably 260% at level 85 to keep damage relatively the same at 85 as live while they intend it to be higher damage at higher levels.

Also 4set t13 increases the dmg of TV by 20%,could be this also.

[anaxie]

It is the bonus.

260*1.2 = 312%

[Reith]

It is the bonus.

260*1.2 = 312%

Man, I was hoping that was the default percentage at higher levels. Oh well, time to ignore templar's verdict during heroism unless they lower its GCD with haste...