Why are people so protective of Sylvanas?

[Scummer]

A. Blind loyalty to your races leader (I don't mean this in a an offensive way I did the same for Magni)
B. She's an Elf Chick
C. Played WC3

Point C is questionable as her character direction has gone a little loco as of late. I personally despise her.

[Combatbutler]

I thought that the portrait of sorcerer would give some hint. Oh well...

Oh come on I am sure Tzeentch wouldn't mind, he is the Chaos god of change after all^^

---------- Post added 2012-04-29 at 09:00 PM ----------

A. Blind loyalty to your races leader (I don't mean this in a an offensive way I did the same for Magni)
B. She's an Elf Chick
C. Played WC3

Point C is questionable as her character direction has gone a little loco as of late. I personally despise her.

Ever since she was raised she has been that loco, but people tend to ignore it. Her character development unlike many others has actually been consistent.

[Suggs]

It seems, despite her unpleasant personality and disposition, people always come to the defense of Sylvanas and her well being over other faction leaders. In particular, when she's insulted or the thought of her dying comes to light, people rush to try to defend her case. And other than the obviousness of an Alliance zerg on Garrosh, people seem to always go and save Sylvanas from the said raid, in comparison to Lor'themar who is right next to UC.

Discuss.

Same reason why alliance are so pretective over there faction and constantly complaining they get it worst. Horde are no different despite what alliance may think and most importantly what some horde players say...they just wont admit it

[ijffdrie]

Ever since she was raised she has been that loco, but people tend to ignore it. Her character development unlike many others has actually been consistent.

Very much true. Her first few actions upon being free were
A) Ally with demons
B) Torture someone
C) Control minds
D) Stab old ally in the back.

[strangebreed]

If you aren't undead what would killing Sylvanas off do for you? nothing. Some people like darker characters, such as myself. I'm alliance but Sylvanas is my favorite character. Characters that are not like myself interest me greatly. Such as in Harry Potter I love Bellatrix even though i'm nothing like them. people are "over protective" of thrall as well you could say and i'm sure if you look through fan art of jaina thrall varian etc you'll find them all in compromising positions more than a couple times. females just get the blunt of that type of fan art. People protect things they like . pretty simple.

She could destroy all the humans in westfall tomorrow and then make them undead and i'll still consider her my favorite character even though i'm human in game. she adds edge to the game. It doesn't need more thralls or varians.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Oh come on I am sure Tzeentch wouldn't mind, he is the Chaos god of change after all^^

---------- Post added 2012-04-29 at 09:00 PM ----------



Ever since she was raised she has been that loco, but people tend to ignore it. Her character development unlike many others has actually been consistent.

Nah, she had a clearly defined goal up until the Wrath Gate. After that her story's gone loco.

[Zaelsino]

Still waiting on a mildly compelling argument for how she's a "poorly written character." Particularly since she's virtually the only character in this franchise whose various story arcs have been consistent, flowing, constantly divisive, and utilized rather well both in-game and out. Where does she fall short? Does lacking wolf god powers (it was a bloody nickname, Knaak. A nickname...) and the ability to time travel make her a fundamentally bad character?

I mean, far be it from me to question enlightened literary criticism such as "Fanbois are protective because she has a lot of cleavage and is emo," but I'm genuinely curious.

[ijffdrie]

Still waiting on a mildly compelling argument for how she's a "poorly written character." Particularly since she's virtually the only character in this franchise whose various story arcs have been consistent, flowing, constantly divisive, and utilized rather well both in-game and out. Where does she fall short?

While I'm personally rather fond of Sylvanas, I do understand the complaints. Most of them aren't so much about Sylvanas being evil as they are about Sylvanas being blatantly evil and the horde not kicking her out. Though anyone could see that problem coming from all the way back in Vanilla, with the horde allowing the forsaken in when some druids (who had only seen a single forsaken in their entire lives) and an anti-horde tauren supremacist vouched for them.

[Count Zero]

I used to chill in her throne room and /kneel before her while I was waiting in queue for stuffs.

[Vesker]

While I'm personally rather fond of Sylvanas, I do understand the complaints. Most of them aren't so much about Sylvanas being evil as they are about Sylvanas being blatantly evil and the horde not kicking her out. Though anyone could see that problem coming from all the way back in Vanilla, with the horde allowing the forsaken in when some druids (who never met the forsaken) and an anti-horde tauren supremacist vouched for them.

That's going back a while. If I remember right the Forsaken were allowed into the Horde because the Tauren were convinced redemption lay ahead for them. If they hadn't spoken up Thrall would have refused Sylvanas. That might still hold true (and I'm convinced it eventually will) but for now they can't kick the Forsaken out. If they did the Alliance would trample them and Quel'thalas would shortly follow. A Horde with two races down and with no major presence on the Eastern Kingdoms would be pretty easy pickings especially after Theramore's destruction and the Alliance collectively realising some serious ass needs to be kicked.

Say what you want about Sylvanas herself but she's essential to the continued survival of the Horde at this point. Kicking her out would be earning the Horde a place under Varian's boot heel.

[Sammonoske]

Why are people so against her is the real question. Most of the time its people from that play a different faction or race that complains about it.

I am against Slyvanas simply because she is becoming worse than the Lich King. To be honest there is no reason she or the Forsaken should even be with the Horde at this point. If an opportunity presented itself that involved consuming the Horde into the Forsaken, I think she would do it.

[Kralljin]

Personally i started to dislike Sylvanas since the start of WoW, during WC3 i actually liked her during TFT, in RoC i found her weird a character that demanded from Arthas a clean death (which made me chuckle).

But in WoW she seems more a cult object than a decent leader.

First off, she kept a Dreadlord alive and promoted him to the Majordomo of her Capital...

A Dreadlord, a kind of Demon that is best known for it's art of deceit, treachery and betrayal.
Which person would have kept such a demon alive after he served his purpose and then put him into a position of power?

And there have been indications for Varimathras Betrayal during Classic: http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Nothing_But_The_Truth read the text's and you'll see that the Betrayal by Varimathras side was planned all along.
Although Sylvanas couldn't learn from those indications indications but still, keeping a dreadlord for a longer period of time within your faction won't end well. never.

Secondly, her "tactical" genius

In WC3 Sylvanas has been seen very adapt at fighting a guerilla war, which had some real tactial masterpieces.

But in WoW it semed that Sylvanas was only able to take any ground with:
Player Interference (Which you can hardly credit for her own tactic skills)
Usage of the Plague
Terror Tactics such as taking Hostages

Additionally, agreeing with Garrosh just to storm Northrend instead of scouting, oh the irony.


Personally the Frozen Halls have left some real damage on my opinion for Sylvnas, it's noncanon but still.

She was "happy" that Sindragosa killed Horde Soldiers because their leader has helding a speech.
She tried to kill Arthas while Uther told her mere seconds before he could only be defeated at the Frozen Throne.


I could easily imagine that Sylvanas will be dealt in a similiar fashion like Garrosh, she has reached a point of no return in my opinion, but currently the Forsaken lack any Character that could take over the leadership without devoting the Forsaken on avenging Sylvanas' death.

OR maybe she dies if the next expansion is legion based Varimathras and his brother's will take their revenge on Sylvanas, therefore making her not "evil" in the eyes of Horde, or other neutral factions.

[FTW]

She gets way more hate than she deserves just because of her being a "zombie"

[Deleted]

cos of all the fan art, face it they are all necros

[Zaelsino]

While I'm personally rather fond of Sylvanas, I do understand the complaints. Most of them aren't so much about Sylvanas being evil as they are about Sylvanas being blatantly evil and the horde not kicking her out.

Well, isn't that conspicuous lack of action more on Garrosh's shoulders than Sylvanas's? If my boss warns me not to automatically charge people for things they don't want, yet I do it anyway (blatantly and repeatedly), and she knows I'm doing it, yet does nothing to stop me because we're reaping the profit... where does the blame lie, when we both look like evil extortionists? Surely it's not all on me. Empty lip service and general enablement take some of the cake, too.

Pre-Theramore at least, the Forsaken are the only ones who have made sweeping, unambiguous gains. Morality aside, the results are probably worth a little excess plague.

But yeah, I agree Blizzard have written themselves into a corner there. Sylvanas has too many sins for them to all die with Garrosh, and his downfall/Thrall's reinstatement seems to be how they're going to paint this incoming Horde-wide redemption story. It'll be interesting to see where Sylvie goes from here; and more importantly, how she fits in under Thrall's (you know, the guy whose greatest desire is to bow at Varian's feet and enjoy peace) rule again.

[Kralljin]

cos of all the fan art, face it they are all necros

To be honest, her Ingame Model and most official wallpapers don't really show her as Undead, she looks more like a Dark Elf.

I mean, she died 3 times already, there should some scars to see anywhere and i can hardly believe that she has only wounds / scars on parts which are covered by armor.

[stomination]

Well, isn't that conspicuous lack of action more on Garrosh's shoulders than Sylvanas's? If my boss warns me not to automatically charge people for things they don't want, yet I do it anyway (blatantly and repeatedly), and she knows I'm doing it, yet does nothing to stop me because we're reaping the profit... where does the blame lie, when we both look like evil extortionists? Surely it's not all on me. Empty lip service and general enablement take some of the cake, too.

Pre-Theramore at least, the Forsaken are the only ones who have made sweeping, unambiguous gains. Morality aside, the results are probably worth a little excess plague.

But yeah, I agree Blizzard have written themselves into a corner there. Sylvanas has too many sins for them to all die with Garrosh, and his downfall/Thrall's reinstatement seems to be how they're going to paint this incoming Horde-wide redemption story. It'll be interesting to see where Sylvie goes from here; and more importantly, how she fits in under Thrall's (you know, the guy whose greatest desire is to bow at Varian's feet and enjoy peace) rule again.

Tell me some of her sins in cataclysm.

[Zaelsino]

Tell me some of her sins in cataclysm.

Not too many; I can't even pin Liam's death on her, since it was a suicide move. Spamming the plague, I suppose. Indirectly contributing to those death camps in Hillsbrad. Maybe planning to turn Gilneas and all of its people into green goo. One could argue raising people into undeath isn't a particularly nice thing to do. Eh. It's presented as necessary and pragmatic (and even a little sympathetic) from her and the Forsaken's point of view, but look at the other one. It's a frightening fate to behold, unless you'd... rather enjoy the benefits of undeath. Judging from some of the reactions, some do: "I have become... death!"

She's going to hell either way though, so someone isn't happy with her. It's her whole motivation behind wanting to live so much.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I still say MoP is the tipping pint for the Banshee Queen.

Either she will take a sharp turn toward sanity, or will die sometime in WoW.

[Deleted]

Not too many; I can't even pin Liam's death on her, since it was a suicide move. Spamming the plague, I suppose. Indirectly contributing to those death camps in Hillsbrad. Maybe planning to turn Gilneas and all of its people into green goo. One could argue raising people into undeath isn't a particularly nice thing to do. Eh. It's presented as necessary and pragmatic (and even a little sympathetic) from her and the Forsaken's point of view, but look at the other one. It's a frightening fate to behold, unless you'd... rather enjoy the benefits of undeath. Judging from some of the reactions, some do: "I have become... death!"

She's going to hell either way though, so someone isn't happy with her. It's her whole motivation behind wanting to live so much.

See, now, to me, a 'sin' in the context of Warcraft, and particularly the Horde and their faction doctrine, is a betrayal of the absolute leader, the Warchief. And, as far as I can recall, Sylvanas has made no betrayal of the Horde which has actually come to light, at least, not beyond High Warlord Cromush, after his stationing in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Her one potential sin, committed against the current Warchief, would have been the use of the plague and necromancy after Garrosh explicitly ordered her not to. This was, I believe, never made known to Garrosh and I think it is because after being stationed with the Forsaken, Cromush began to understand how fundamental Sylvanas was to their political/military structure, their culture and, most importantly, keeping them somewhat in check. I believe this revelation is articulated in his frantic, barked order at the Valk'yr, demanding they, "Fix her...FIX HER!", when she is shot by Crowley.
I think, after he saw how she operated and undeniably got results (despite being temporarily set back by a bullet in the brain!), he decided to keep schtum on any tactics she might have utilised which the Warchief might have disagreed with. (Whether he did actually rat her out is not known yet, could change, but I work with what I've got.)

Of course, she has done many cruel, cold, malicious and downright wicked things recently. But, we have to remember who to, it was the humans. The enemies of the Horde. The enemies in an open war. These are not despicable tactics used against unsuspecting targets in covert operations, something which both factions were guilty of during the unspoken cold war between the Alliance and Horde before the Wrathgate. This is open war, one which Varian, a leader on the other side declared. Some of the things she has done have been terrible. But, it wasn't done to the people on her side (not since WC3-ish time). She's done well by the Horde. Got them a port, made their lands in the Eastern Kingdoms more secure and kept the Alliance forces in Eastern Kingdoms too busy to attempt to take much more of Kalimdor (imagine the Barrens fight if Sylvanas wasn't causing trouble on the other side of the pond.).

Her moral 'sins' are many. But, for the Horde, it shouldn't matter (also worth noting, many of the terrible things she has done have only been seen by we, the omniscient players, and a few characters in game. The majority of people, both sides, are not privy to the insight we have).

But, if it is sins committed against the Horde which we are talking about being forgiven, with the reinstatement of Thrall as top-dog, Sylvanas has none to redeem for (which most people know about ).

Of course, Blizzard might feel the same way many people seem to do. That she must repent for making an enemy suffer. Something which seems ludicrous to me, but they could very well choose to think that way, especially with making Thrall Warchief again and bringing back Horde Light. >_<'

Hope that made sense. I waffled. (Oh Lawdy! Wall of text. I'm sorry but it's a discussion I enjoy contributing to! )