Is tipping 'required'? Am I in the wrong?

[Shoridayo]

This is ambiguous but you seem to be intending to say tipping in real life is never required. You should act like it is, because the people taking care of you are making a paltry living without tips. The ONLY time, and I mean ONLY time it's not okay to tip is if you get absolutly terrible service. Americans need to understand that tipping is how these people make their livings, and you can't blame them if the food is bad, you blame the cooks. The servers are responsible solely for your service. If you get bad service, it's fine to leave no or a shitty tip as a way of saying "you suck at your job" otherwise there's no excuse, ever.

Americans also need to realize when things are beyond the control of the server. I don't know how many times I've gone out with family members on my fiancee's side who do nothing but bitch about the service being slow in the middle of an overcrowded and understaffed restaurant. This is not something you can blame the servers for, either. On my side of the family, we don't have these problems. My grandmother worked in restaurants, my aunt did when she was young, and my mom made her living as a waitress for decades, and I worked in every position in a restaurant from ages 18-23.

It doesn't matter.
You sign on as a server, knowing you will make a lot less hourly, but have the CHANCE AT GETTING TIPS.
Don't whine about lower pay when you knowingly accept it.

[ganush]

It doesn't matter.
You sign on as a server, knowing you will make a lot less hourly, but have the CHANCE AT GETTING TIPS.
Don't whine about lower pay when you knowingly accept it.

Yeah, I have to agree. I've been in the restaurant service industry on every level from busser to owner and the reality is that servers need to realize that tips are for performance and shouldn't be expected. My experience is most customers are sympathetic to things like being understaffed of situations that are not in the server's control. However, I've noticed that newer servers these days seem to just expect to be tipped and don't put the effort in to earn the tip. I own a restaurant now, and track my servers electronic tips. I can tell you the some servers consistently make 20% and others are between 10% and 15%. Coincidentally the servers who make less in tips are the ones who complain the most that their customers are cheap, and also the ones who end up not having a job. The ones who make more in tips, make it for a reason, their customers feel like they were treated better. I tell all my servers, all you have to do is one thing that is out of the ordinary service experience for each table and your tips will jump because people notice.

That said, and more on topic, if I ever heard one of my servers say anything to a customer about not getting a tip, they would be fired on the spot.

[Santti]

It's not a tip if it's demanded, it's a fee. If the person is expecting gold for his/her services, he/she should announce it beforehand. You were not cheap, he was greedy. And dumb.

And it very much is a bannable offence, if he won't give the helm to you. Not to mention the insults. Some time away from wow would do some good for him.

[Prokne]

think of it this way though, next time you spend 15 minutes looking for a Blacksmith, there will be one less blacksmith out there eager to help you. personally, i dont even bother crafting items for people in trade chat because its not even worth my time. the AH mark up is so much better so why bother for a 10g tip? a guildie is a different story of course.

I usually dont make anything through trade chat for the same reason. If you want it buy it from me on the AH where I make more than an extra 50g from it. I only consider making stuff that I either dont have on the AH or is a low level rare item and they have to have the mats.

The OP should have put his tip in while the BS was putting the helm in and it would have been smooth. The way it happened it seems like the OP was trying to see if he could get away with not tipping and tried to push the guy into demanding a tip so he could get upset and not tip him.

[Scathbais]

I always expect a tip. I level up my professions to make my toon more powerful, to help guildies and most importantly to make a profit. Most of my profits come from the AH, but I also expect to be tipped for my time services.

If someone doesn't tip, I don't make a fuss, I just put them on my ignore list -- this rarely happens.

[Prokne]

That said, and more on topic, if I ever heard one of my servers say anything to a customer about not getting a tip, they would be fired on the spot.

Its a little different for trade items in WOW though. The server would be fired because whether or not he got a tip the restaurant wants to keep making money from the customers repeat visits. In WOW the crafter only makes gold if he gets a tip/fee from you so if you dont give him anything he makes nothing and would lose nothing if you didnt come back.

A better analogy would be if the restaurant worked off of tips. If people never paid anything for the food, you would not want them coming back, even if they brought their own steaks for you to cook.

[Excellent]

A tip is no more required than the service provided. In other words, no, you don't have to tip the guy if you don't feel it's necessary, however, the person providing the service doesn't have to provide the service either. I always tip anyone who does something that helps me out... and when I perform a service (enchanting, tailoring, portals, for example), I do indeed expect a tip, but I'm not so foolish as to place that tip as a price tag for my service. When someone stiffs me (which I will estimate to be about 10% of the time), I will say something to remind them that it is good form to tip for services provided... but I do not ever refuse to perform the service, let alone steal someone's mats.

I think it's a good evenly balanced way to be and if everyone did this, there would be no threads on MMO-C about it.

[Aalyy]

Douches who don't tip and think it's perfectly appropriate to get someone to do something for you for free are the reason I no longer respond to requests for crafting or enchanting in trade. I make all my gold on the ah. You wanna skimp me out of a 20-30g tip for an enchant? Fine! Get someone else to do it or buy my scroll off the ah for a 200g mark up.

The OP is more in the wrong here for expecting a free service. Sure the BS sounds like a tool and maybe the OP had a blonde moment or something and actually did mean to tip, but I'd be pissed too if the OP didn't tip me after I'd done something for him. Rather than raging like an idiot I'd just not ever do anything for you ever again. Tipping is expected when an non friend or guildie performs a service for you. If you don't tip, you're a cheapass and a bigger douche than the person you just used for free. I just save myself the hassle and sell my stuff on the ah. No cheapasses to deal with and more gold. Win win for me.

[Miralynn]

I don't ever ask for a tip, and as such I find that the people who DO give me one generally pay me more than the guy in Trade demanding a tip is asking for, or they'll say 'Hey, I'm a (profession), add me and PST me if you need anything made.' I also make portals for free on my mage, and more than once I've gotten enraged whispers from some doofus mad at me for 'undercutting their business'. In the long run, tipping is never mandatory, but I remember people who tip well and I'm more inclined to help them out or give THEM my gold for crafting items in the future.

[Rexxr]

Is it 'required'? No.

But you're a douche if you don't tip, and people will remember.

Exactly especially if go back there ever again.

[Avgonius]

After reading the early part of this thread it occurs to me that "tips" are mislabeled and I think people need to just charge fees. Being honest and up front that you expect to get paid to help / perform a service for another player would make things easier. There isn't anything wrong with asking for something in exchange for your skills.

Thankfully I have had the time to level almost all professions to max and rarely need services of random players. When I do need help I turn to my guild because we have a mutual aid mentality and will gladly help each other out if we're not busy in an instance etc.

[Moistloins]

I'm not gonna beat the dead horse that is this thread. Tip != Fee

HOWEVER...

If you can fap in 10 seconds, you're doing it wrong.

Is he really doing it wrong? At 10 seconds, imagine the possibilities for more fapping.

[Ghostie]

Tipping is never required, this is something most Americans don't understand.
I would only tip if the service provided was exceptionally rare or done over and above what you would normally expect...like if the crafter used his own mats and only asked the minimum mat price i would give a good tip...if how ever i gave him the mats he would not get a tip unless it was a rare pattern

Apparently you took a poll of most Americans.....

I didn't level all the professions so I can craft things for other people and I could care less if someone else benefits from my efforts, if someone wants me to make something and doesn't offer a tip in advance I tell them the crafting fee. If you don't want to pay up then level the profession yourself. I use to answer calls to make things but a majority of people are cheap and it wastes my time to cater to them....I value my time more than what some random person wants.

On the very rare occasions I don't have the pattern for something I need I tip very generously because I know the effort it takes to level professions.

[Deleted]

Is it 'required'? No.

But you're a douche if you don't tip, and people will remember.

This, I actually just place people who just jump into my portals without tipping me, on my ignore list. Has worked out pretty well so far.

[Invictus9001]

Is it 'required'? No.
But you're a douche if you don't tip, and people will remember.

This, I actually just place people who just jump into my portals without tipping me, on my ignore list. Has worked out pretty well so far.

^^All of the above x infinity. (Agreed!)

In a general sense:
If you ask someone to take the time to craft something (with your mats) that you (or one of your alts) obviously cannot craft (otherwise you wouldn't be asking in trade/general for help), then you should have the bloody COURTESY to show some recompense for the time taken to perform the crafting. A tip shows appreciation for response, effort, and the fact that someone else took his/her time to make or do something for you rather than doing something else for himself/herself. When no upfront fee is discussed, have the courtesy to tip, or expect what you get afterward.

If you're asking a crafter to make an item or items from scratch using the crafter's mats, you should be more than willing to negotiate a fair market price for the mats, and patient enough for the mats search and a tiny bit of mats. At that point, it becomes a fee, not a tip.

If you're too much the cheapskate to tip, or too freaking impatient to allow a crafter to check to see if he/she has mats on hand (and thus might be willing to negotiate a price based on fair market value), then you deserve no service, no smile, a few witty remarks and an addition to ignores. Life is far to short to deal with pricks more than once per lifetime.

[Sansnom]

^^All of the above x infinity. (Agreed!)

In a general sense:
If you ask someone to take the time to craft something (with your mats) that you (or one of your alts) obviously cannot craft (otherwise you wouldn't be asking in trade/general for help), then you should have the bloody COURTESY to show some recompense for the time taken to perform the crafting. A tip shows appreciation for response, effort, and the fact that someone else took his/her time to make or do something for you rather than doing something else for himself/herself. When no upfront fee is discussed, have the courtesy to tip, or expect what you get afterward.

If you're asking a crafter to make an item or items from scratch using the crafter's mats, you should be more than willing to negotiate a fair market price for the mats, and patient enough for the mats search and a tiny bit of mats. At that point, it becomes a fee, not a tip.

If you're too much the cheapskate to tip, or too freaking impatient to allow a crafter to check to see if he/she has mats on hand (and thus might be willing to negotiate a price based on fair market value), then you deserve no service, no smile, a few witty remarks and an addition to ignores. Life is far to short to deal with pricks more than once per lifetime.

This whole business of tipping, not tipping is getting out of hand. If you do not specify a fee, be prepared not to be paid. Don't blame it on the player who did not "pay" you for your service. If you was expecting something, say so as a fee. You can call the customer a cheap sake all you want, the same can be applied to the crafter for EXPECTING a payment when none was agreed before the start of the transaction.

[Invictus9001]

If you do not specify a fee, be prepared not to be paid..

If anyone is too cheap to even TIP to show some gratitude, that same person (or those same people) will most likely balk at any upfront fees that would be spoken of. In that case, ignore and move along. (I don't have time or patience for deadbeats.)

[Asmekiel]

Being a LW/BS with almost all recipes I often make stuff for random people. I never ask for a tip/fee and I always go to them, they don't have to come to me. Most people do ask how much I want though and I always answer that I don't really care. Most people do give a tip and then I respond with a /bow /thank and /s Thanks, if they don't give a tip I just wish them good luck with their new item.
People demanding a tip, or fee, are just.. meh. If you want to make gold with your profession you should supply things, not demand.

[Something]

If someone demands a "tip", it's no longer a tip, it's a fee. If he didn't mention anything about it before you made the trade with him, he got no right to demand you to pay him after he crafted it for you, at least that's my opinion.

[Deleted]

Really? It takes no time at all to craft anything. If you can fap in 10 seconds, you're doing it wrong.

Well, I guess that depends on the goal.