LFD and LFR are hurting WoW gameplay.

[h4rr0d]

I love all the bullshit "I spent 10 hours looking for people before LFD" bullshit. Max like 20 minutes, you people overreact like bunch of kiddies.

Have you played a non CC DPS in TBC? It was virtually impossible to get group outside of guild/friends as, eg. enhancement shaman.

[SamR]

Have you played a non CC DPS in TBC? It was virtually impossible to get group outside of guild/friends as, eg. enhancement shaman.

Pretty sure anyone in this thread who played during TBC knows that anyone claiming 20 min max to form a group is lying through their teeth. Not even worth replying to, really.

[Talen]

Hi, so just making this thread because I'm feeling concerned about how easy WoW is getting and how we can get geared so quickly nowaday. Also do you think it is what prevent players from going outside cities?

No.

Whats preventing players leaving the cities is the realisation theres little or nothing in the world for them to do.

So i'd like to know your opinion about if Blizzard should or shouldn't remove them.

No.

LFR and LFD allow players to find groups and enter dungeons while performing other tasks. It is boring to have to wait outside at a meeting stone for what can be several hours annoying every othe rplayer in the server with "LFG".

LFD and LFR aren't perfect. But its better to have them in the game.

I don't want them gone. I do want better anti griefing tools.

EJL

[Palli]

Personally i think this was a bad move on blizz's part. I and i'm certain many others are quite content seeing the fights and being fully geared with 397 vender loot and 384 RF loot. With my stat layout optimized through reforging and such, i do competitive DPS. I've geared up 6 85's playing a total of 10 hours a week. I'm bored as hell now. I could go to reg raids or heroics, but why? for an extra 300 int? Woot! (sarcasm)

I once was a hardcore raider, cause that was the only way to get geared. Now you can play 2 days a week at 5 hours a sitting and be geared enough to be satisfied. I'm near ready to unsub cause there is nothing encouraging me to invest time in the game anymore.

There was a time when hardcore raiders would play each content patch till they beat the raid, and they would all get geared as much as need be to do so, then they would unsub and do something else. This was maybe 10 guilds per server. Now casual guilds are doing so in a similar manner. A casual 10 man guild can clear the current content much faster now due to getting additional chances at gear that will help them get an edge on the raid they are doing. That sounds great, but really its not. That means even casual guilds will complete the content faster and then people will unsub till the next patch comes about. That's months of sub fees that blizz is losing by more and more players.

Is this exactly happening? i haven't a clue since i don't watch the sub stats each month. But this would have been my first thought in the board room when this idea to make LFR as easy as it is. And for it to hand out as much loot as it does.

---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 04:31 PM ----------



Off Topic, but why do people post that a post is pointless, doing so bumps it up to the top of the post queue making it stay active. It's like people who when on hold with a business will hang up and call back 16 times putting themselves to the bottom of the queue over and over again.

Sometimes in order to correct a problem you have to mock it and point at it relentlessly. Other times, it's just to get your post count up and because you're bored. Oh and right back at ya with your post.

[Deleted]

They've done nothing but change the game for the better for me, i play on a low pop realm and couldn't find a guild i enjoyed playing with therefore i missed out on firelands, didn't get to set foot in there. 2 days after 4.3 came out i'd cleared DS (LFR difficulty obviously) and that's amazing, if you're playing in a hardcore guild or with a group of friends then good for you but not everyones lucky enough to find themselves in that situation.

I think so many people complain about LFR because DS isn't a fantastic raid to start with and even less so when you've got an extra lockout chance of loot to do every week.

If anything happened to LFR or LFD then i'd stop playing, they're luxuries that i've got too used to using and hell even going back to 4.1 ZG/ZA difficulty dungeons would make me stop playing. I just dont have the time or inclination anymore to spend 2 hours looking for a group, looking for replacements when someone leaves or just generally wiping in 5 mans.

[Kathandira]

They've done nothing but change the game for the better for me, i play on a low pop realm and couldn't find a guild i enjoyed playing with therefore i missed out on firelands, didn't get to set foot in there. 2 days after 4.3 came out i'd cleared DS (LFR difficulty obviously) and that's amazing, if you're playing in a hardcore guild or with a group of friends then good for you but not everyones lucky enough to find themselves in that situation.

I think so many people complain about LFR because DS isn't a fantastic raid to start with and even less so when you've got an extra lockout chance of loot to do every week.

If anything happened to LFR or LFD then i'd stop playing, they're luxuries that i've got too used to using and hell even going back to 4.1 ZG/ZA difficulty dungeons would make me stop playing. I just dont have the time or inclination anymore to spend 2 hours looking for a group, looking for replacements when someone leaves or just generally wiping in 5 mans.

Your point is justified, and it is the reason LFR and LFD exist. But the counter point is from those who do not have a problem finding guilds or amassing a large enough friends list to do the content. as for being on a low population server, that is the fault of blizzard. they could combine servers, but it is a sign of decline. if they start shutting down a few servers to combine them to have less low population issues people will start to think that WoW is losing members. granted it'd be just as easy to look at sales and sub figures, but it's a small amount of people who actually care to look into that information.

[AeneasBK]

Have to agree with the 20 min wait guy but then I'm not completely and utterly socially inept (yeh, Inorite) so by the time I hit lvl 70 I had plenty of friends to play with. LFD and LFR pander to the people who can't be arsed to be pleasant or just never worked out how to make friends. This is why it hurts the WoW community. Pandering to the ass-hats has resulted over 2 years or so since LFD was introduced that theres only about 10 realms left (EU) with a community that isn't just... asshats.

Again, if it took you 10 hours to find a group you were either really bad at the game, or really bad at encountering other people.

[SamR]

Have to agree with the 20 min wait guy but then I'm not completely and utterly socially inept (yeh, Inorite) so by the time I hit lvl 70 I had plenty of friends to play with. LFD and LFR pander to the people who can't be arsed to be pleasant or just never worked out how to make friends. This is why it hurts the WoW community. Pandering to the ass-hats has resulted over 2 years or so since LFD was introduced that theres only about 10 realms left (EU) with a community that isn't just... asshats.

Again, if it took you 10 hours to find a group you were either really bad at the game, or really bad at encountering other people.

It's funny that you decry the downfall of the WoW community while putting down other players who disagree with you as socially inept asshats.

Condescending elitists ruined the WoW community way more than the poorly skilled casual ever did.

[AeneasBK]

It's funny that you decry the downfall of the WoW community while putting down other players who disagree with you as socially inept asshats.

Condescending elitists ruined the WoW community way more than the poorly skilled casual ever did.

I find it funny how I can make comments about asshats in the WoW community and people take it personally xD Fact of the matter is that when people were more accountable for their behaviour they behaved better. A lot of the more mature crowd in WoW have left it to the kiddies that inhabit it for the most part now. As a result you ask a question in trade now you just get the hurr durr crowd jumping on it (again ^^ on most realms). Like I said, pandering to the ass-hats has resulted in a general shift towards dick-headery in game. LFD and LFR are tools in game that pander to the "trololol" crowd. If people can't be bothered or don't know how to behave in such a way that people wanna play games with them again, they should go and play Skyrim or any one of the thousands of single player games out there.

[Otaka]

they should merge low pop realms instead of letting them live their miserable life.
Thats why LFD was nessecery because blizzard didnt do anything to low pop realms so they whine so badly at dungeon queues and stuff.

If they just merged 2 or 3 low pop realms it would become a big realm and wohoo they dont need to whine anymore...BUT NO.... i transferred from my old realm too because there was barely any raiding guilds nor pvp teams/guilds. And if there were they sucked. Now that 25 man and 10 man raiding gives same rewards, my favorite 25 man mode was scrapped on that realm....people went 10 man because its easier to get players for it.

[SamR]

I find it funny how I can make comments about asshats in the WoW community and people take it personally xD Fact of the matter is that when people were more accountable for their behaviour they behaved better. A lot of the more mature crowd in WoW have left it to the kiddies that inhabit it for the most part now. As a result you ask a question in trade now you just get the hurr durr crowd jumping on it (again ^^ on most realms). Like I said, pandering to the ass-hats has resulted in a general shift towards dick-headery in game. LFD and LFR are tools in game that pander to the "trololol" crowd. If people can't be bothered or don't know how to behave in such a way that people wanna play games with them again, they should go and play Skyrim or any one of the thousands of single player games out there.

Look at all the insults strewn through your posts. All the internet meme terms and put downs you have for others.

I never have a problem with the quiet casual who does really bad DPS in LFD or LFR. It's the loud mouth trash talkers who throw insults at "bads" that are at the heart of why the WoW community is so ugly these days.

[Punisher069]

I know for a fact that there were unsavory people in the game before LFD/LFR. If it wasn't for those additions I would not play this game nearly as much as I do now.

[Nadev]

Your point is justified, and it is the reason LFR and LFD exist. But the counter point is from those who do not have a problem finding guilds or amassing a large enough friends list to do the content.

I'm confused as to what your point is here. LFR should be removed because there are some people who don't need to do it?

[SamR]

The anti-LFD/LFR arguments always boil down to not just not using them, but making sure that nobody else is able to use them, either.

Anyone with a huge active guild and a long friends list on a highly populated server does not need to do LFD or LFR. Anyone with a huge active guild and a long friends list on a highly populated server should not care whether I use LFD/LFR or not.

[Nadev]

The anti-LFD/LFR arguments always boil down to not just not using them, but making sure that nobody else is able to use them, either.

Anyone with a huge active guild and a long friends list on a highly populated server does not need to do LFD or LFR. Anyone with a huge active guild and a long friends list on a highly populated server should not care whether I use LFD/LFR or not.

It's this deluded sense of pride. The fact that people get completely inferior loot that are still "purples" enrages the people who don't need them.

[Deleted]

Are you by any chance me?

I think LFD and LFR are hurting the game. They hurt immersion, they hurt the sense of achievement and adventure, they hurt the communities.

The original point of 5/10 mans (and raids) was not to be a farming grounds for various currencies and tier tokens. Dungeons were there to represent the actual, worthwhile (endgame) content. Many dungeon related quests, reputations, items which needed to be crafted (Mara scepter, Key to UBRS, ZF scepter ...) prove that. They were so much more.

And I would think you are me... if it wasn't for the Ironforge reference.

Actually, I have to say that the LFD and LFR tools are not themselves a problem. The problem is that the bulk of the game has degenerated into a one-dimensional token farm.

LFD would be fantastic if the people in the group actually wanted to do the dungeon. But they don't - or at least I'd go out on a limb and say that probably 4/5 of the people in your group don't want to be there. They just want the Valor Points. And you get Valor Points by spamming the crap out of random dungeons.

It's no wonder the masses want heroic dungeons to be 15-minute zerg-fests that you can do while watching TV and eating a bucket of chicken.

But this is what dungeons in WoW have become. Gone are the days of dungeon crawls saturated in RPG goodness. Nowadays, the token-grind oriented dungeons coupled with the convenience of the LFD tool, have actually transformed the game into a simple (but effective) compulsion-loop / appointment-mechanic. It's something that is extremely widespread and successful in mobile "free" apps.

Honestly, I have discovered that I can get that same compulsion of spamming the LFD button until I can afford that shiny new chest-piece from iphone apps by Zynga, Crowdstar et al. But without spending a single penny.

This might come across as inflammatory, but I am personally able to see far too many similarities between WoW LFD/LFR token-farming gearing-up and a game like this... http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/it-girl/id422518243?mt=8

That really isn't meant to be inflammatory, those games are very successful. And if you like that sort of gameplay / experience, then more power to you, you're definitely not alone.

However, personally I have become tired of paying $15 a month to repeatedly farm content that I don't want to do anymore, and putting up with 4 (or 24) random people who really don't want to be there either, and definitely don't want anything to do with me or the other group members, just in order to dress up my virtual avatar(s).

To sum up: The LFD/LFR tools are fine. It's just the people who really don't want to be in the 'D' or the 'R', but have to in order to get their tokens, that's the problem...

[SamR]

And I would think you are me... if it wasn't for the Ironforge reference.

Actually, I have to say that the LFD and LFR tools are not themselves a problem. The problem is that the bulk of the game has degenerated into a one-dimensional token farm.

LFD would be fantastic if the people in the group actually wanted to do the dungeon. But they don't - or at least I'd go out on a limb and say that probably 4/5 of the people in your group don't want to be there. They just want the Valor Points. And you get Valor Points by spamming the crap out of random dungeons.

How's that different from how it's always been? What % of LBRS runs were done with everyone in the group really wanting to see the dungeon(that they've already done many times before) as opposed to just being there for loot?

Everything gets boring when you do it over and over again.

It was no different in vanilla. And TBC. And Wrath.

People run dungeons and raids for gear. It's kind of the point of a PvE based MMO.

[Invictus9001]

LFD is possibly one of the best things to have happened to wow. Gone are the days of spending hours looking for a tank, or a healer on a low pop realm. However it is also one of the worst as there is no accountability for asshats, but hey ignore them you never see them again.

I agree with the first two sentences there. At number three, I respectfully agree to disagree.

Depending on the nature of the idiocy, there may be nothing that you can do. Yet, harassing behavior and the like can (and should) be reported to the GMs. I have had multiple instances in which I had completed an LFD and had someone with whom I had issues in the dungeon, on a freshly made level one on my realm, whisper me bittersweet profanities/slander (etc) and the like. I then proceeded to use my chat mod to copy-paste their BS into a ticket, added the offender (from the dungeon) to my Infinite Ignore list, and let the GMs sort the rest.

Again, life is far too short to deal with pricks more than once per lifetime.

[Deleted]

Its not LFD & LFR what ruined WoW Community but the PEOPLE...

[Deleted]

How's that different from how it's always been? What % of LBRS runs were done with everyone in the group really wanting to see the dungeon(that they've already done many times before) as opposed to just being there for loot?

Everything gets boring when you do it over and over again.

It was no different in vanilla. And TBC. And Wrath.

People run dungeons and raids for gear. It's kind of the point of a PvE based MMO.

It's different because now the primary reward has absolutely nothing to do with the content/dungeon itself. The reward comes from hitting that LFD button - not from something that happens within the dungeon. You're just forced to tolerate the 20 mins it takes to do the dungeon in order to get your magic generic token.

...And so now people are still relentlessly spamming them for VP long after they have reached the point of ad-nauseum that they might have got from running LBRS until that bit of loot they wanted dropped.

It's different because at one point, not everybody was compelled to farm the absolute hell out of 5-mans.

Maybe the "hardcore" grinded them over and over for the loot. But for a lot of people, it was something you did occasionally for "fun".

I will happily accept that your experience may differ from mine, but I can clearly remember the massive shift at the end of TBC when 5-mans could suddenly be farmed for T6 equivalent gear. Now everyone who had previously not felt compelled to relentlessly spam 5-mans suddenly started piling in like crazy. This time was the first time I'd ever heard the immortal line "gogogo". This time was the first time I'd heard people require you to have T5-T6 level of gear in order to run a bloody 5-man heroic. This time was the time when people would leave/kick/insult after a single wipe. Everyone was simply gripped by BoJ-frenzy!

And this is also why I don't hate the LFD tool. The "problem" that many people here associate with it already existed long before then.