[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Lemmiwink]

My biggest concern with this game right now is... I just don't know what's so special about it and it's already demanding 15 bucks per month to play! I've researched on Wiki, in the official website, and gaming previews.. The only thing I got is.. it's set in Elder Scroll universe! and it has just one mega server! And that's it.. I don't really see anything else. I just don't see how anyone would unsub WoW to play ESO. And for new comers to MMO, I don't see how they would choose ESO over non subscription required games like GW2 or SWTOR.

How many of the 4,5 million ex-WoW subscribers do you think are sitting on the fence waiting for another MMO to equal or better WoW in quality? When the EA people reckoned the potential MMO market would be over 20 million for a subscription based MMO, their math wasn't wrong, their game was. If an MMO can deliver high quality content and quick patches, there really isn't anything implying they can't have 5-6 million subs 3 years into the game. Now, the company has to work hard AND be patient to achieve this, which unfortunately is very rare in today's gaming industry. My bet is also that ESO will be a F2P or B2P with some sort of cash shop within 1,5 years of release.

But thinking WoW players won't quit their game for something better/different is naive at best and recent sub numbers confirms that. Blizzard lost touch with their gamers and tried to appeal to everyone, but it turns out "everyone" don't like MoP and they got alot to correct come The Dark Below. I'm for one is expecting Blizzard to pull something amazing out their sleeves to counter the impact EQ Next, Wildstar and TESO will have on WoW. I presume you read the news about Blizz not hiring for Titan anymore? I'm thinking the Titan team is more or less working on WoW now. It might be hoping too much, but I believe we haven't seen the last of WoW either.

[Deleted]

So let me get this straight, this game will be pay to play with microtransactions added too? Yea, I am starting to lose interest fast.

[Goretex]

I'd rather not pay, but then again "You get what you pay for".

Looks like I'll have 2 subs, I'm definately not unsubbing WoW. And wanting to play ESO along side.

- - - Updated - - -

But thinking WoW players won't quit their game for something better/different is naive at best and recent sub numbers confirms that. Blizzard lost touch with their gamers and tried to appeal to everyone, but it turns out "everyone" don't like MoP and they got alot to correct come The Dark Below.

Alot of people like MoP, including me who has been playing since classic. Most people I've heard talk about MoP like it better than LK and Cata. LK was my fav I'll have to admit. But the sub loss was due to something in asia as was posted on mmo-champ.

[Kassadin]

How many of the 4,5 million ex-WoW subscribers do you think are sitting on the fence waiting for another MMO to equal or better WoW in quality? When the EA people reckoned the potential MMO market would be over 20 million for a subscription based MMO, their math wasn't wrong, their game was. If an MMO can deliver high quality content and quick patches, there really isn't anything implying they can't have 5-6 million subs 3 years into the game. Now, the company has to work hard AND be patient to achieve this, which unfortunately is very rare in today's gaming industry. My bet is also that ESO will be a F2P or B2P with some sort of cash shop within 1,5 years of release.

But thinking WoW players won't quit their game for something better/different is naive at best and recent sub numbers confirms that. Blizzard lost touch with their gamers and tried to appeal to everyone, but it turns out "everyone" don't like MoP and they got alot to correct come The Dark Below. I'm for one is expecting Blizzard to pull something amazing out their sleeves to counter the impact EQ Next, Wildstar and TESO will have on WoW. I presume you read the news about Blizz not hiring for Titan anymore? I'm thinking the Titan team is more or less working on WoW now. It might be hoping too much, but I believe we haven't seen the last of WoW either.

Yeah. Any WoW subscriber is more than willing to quit on the discovery for another great MMO. So far, I've yet to find such an MMO. Blizzard may have loss touch with their consumers, but they aren't as ignorant or foolish as many think they are. Blizzard as a game developing company knows what works. Many players dreaming of Vanilla days do not understand that the market itself has changed dramatically from what it was back then. The game is no longer fresh and new primarily because information is more accessible. If WoW had stuck with their Vanilla guns in this era, it would've been over in a heartbeat.

[notorious98]

However when I log into Rift, SWTOR, Tera (sorta), STO, DCUO, or a number of other F2P games I play, I don't experience much, if any, gold spam. Anecdotal, I know, but just wanted to throw it out there.

TOR hasn't had gold spam since the old days. The most you'll see anymore is a random in-game mail from somebody.

[Archangel Tyrael]

I'd rather not pay, but then again "You get what you pay for".

Looks like I'll have 2 subs, I'm definately not unsubbing WoW. And wanting to play ESO along side.

- - - Updated - - -



Alot of people like MoP, including me who has been playing since classic. Most people I've heard talk about MoP like it better than LK and Cata. LK was my fav I'll have to admit. But the sub loss was due to something in asia as was posted on mmo-champ.

Every single possible poll I've seen, MoP just barely comes in front of Cata (when people are asked which expansion they thought was the worst).

And the sub-bleeding is not only in Asia.

[Lemmiwink]

I'd rather not pay, but then again "You get what you pay for".

Looks like I'll have 2 subs, I'm definately not unsubbing WoW. And wanting to play ESO along side.

- - - Updated - - -Alot of people like MoP, including me who has been playing since classic. Most people I've heard talk about MoP like it better than LK and Cata. LK was my fav I'll have to admit. But the sub loss was due to something in asia as was posted on mmo-champ.

Alot of people like MoP, yes. You can't look away from the fact that 4,6 million players unsubbed in the last 10 months. Such a mass exodus can't be explained with old age alone. I like MoP as well, as an expansion it's fine. The kiddy changes like the new talent system etc. are most likely more at fault than the theme of the expansion. I've also played since vanilla, still play it every now and then, I don't like the talent system like it is. Also, in the last quarterly report it was admitted that the loss in subscribers was evenly divided betweeen asia and the west. Meaning at least 1,5 million western players have left the building. Your statement about many people liking MoP is true, but also very subjective and is in no way based on facts. Numbers speak for themselves.

However, Blizzard are some of the most clever people in the gaming industry. I don't expect them to take the challenge from ESO, EQ and Wildstar lightly and I fully expect The Dark Below to blow our minds and recapitalize on the player base. They know better now that they can't do whatever they want and not pay for it (end of Cataclysm, Mop)

[Archangel Tyrael]

Alot of people like MoP, yes. You can't look away from the fact that 4,6 million players unsubbed in the last 10 months. Such a mass exodus can't be explained with old age alone. I like MoP as well, as an expansion it's fine. The kiddy changes like the new talent system etc. are most likely more at fault than the theme of the expansion. I've also played since vanilla, still play it every now and then, I don't like the talent system like it is. Also, in the last quarterly report it was admitted that the loss in subscribers was evenly divided betweeen asia and the west. Meaning at least 1,5 million western players have left the building. Your statement about many people liking MoP is true, but also very subjective and is in no way based on facts. Numbers speak for themselves.

However, Blizzard are some of the most clever people in the gaming industry. I don't expect them to take the challenge from ESO, EQ and Wildstar lightly and I fully expect The Dark Below to blow our minds and recapitalize on the player base. They know better now that they can't do whatever they want and not pay for it (end of Cataclysm, Mop)

Have you seen the new interview? They admmitted that they catered to casuals, but they also said that they understand that Hardcore raiders were left behind, and that they are planning new exciting features for hardcore WoW players.

Interesting things should be releaved soon, as you said, Blizzard is probably preparing something to counter TESO and EQ Next's challenge.

[Glorious Leader]

Have you seen the new interview? They admmitted that they catered to casuals, but they also said that they understand that Hardcore raiders were left behind, and that they are planning new exciting features for hardcore WoW players.

Interesting things should be releaved soon, as you said, Blizzard is probably preparing something to counter TESO and EQ Next's challenge.

That interview is horse shit. It contradicts many MANY recorded statements the developers have been saying for the past 6 months now. Mists is the least casual friendly expansion and the developers are on the record as implying this as well. Actually IMHO Cataclysm was far better than mists, in fact I'd gladly take "hard" dungeons over the slop we get fed now. If ESO thinks it's gonna make money doing the same shit they did in Mists well I don't know. Quite frankly if ESO is gonna go on the same raid or die end game pve model then fuck it, I'll keep my money.

[Archangel Tyrael]

That interview is horse shit. It contradicts many MANY recorded statements the developers have been saying for the past 6 months now. Mists is the least casual friendly expansion and the developers are on the record as implying this as well. Actually IMHO Cataclysm was far better than mists, in fact I'd gladly take "hard" dungeons over the slop we get fed now. If ESO thinks it's gonna make money doing the same shit they did in Mists well I don't know. Quite frankly if ESO is gonna go on the same raid or die end game pve model then fuck it, I'll keep my money.

Exactly how is Mists the least casual friendly expansion?

Because that's a strong statement, are you really saying that it is less casual friendly than Vanilla and TBC?

[Glorious Leader]

Exactly how is Mists the least casual friendly expansion?

Because that's a strong statement, are you really saying that it is less casual friendly than Vanilla and TBC?

Vanilla isn't a an expansion and ironically if you read the developer tweets that's exactly the "feel" they tried to go for (in mists), albeit it with slightly more catch up in terms of progression.

Allow me to amend and further clarify my statement. Mists is the LEAST casual friendly expansion since TBC. It is a massive time sink and a massive grind that shoves players into activities that are not very casual friendly versus what they had in the past. Spending an hour running a dungeon and buying valor gear let's say was far more casual friendly then waiting in que for an hour for lfr for just a CHANCE at a piece of gear. Hell they got rid of the valor gear itself next patch. Run around the island for your scrap of sub par ghetto loot casual scum. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding so to speak. The developers have struggled with casual retention this expansion and it's very easy to see why. The game demands far more in terms of time consumption than it did in the past. It asks players to do far more and get far less out of the game to give some players more to do.

Mists only barely edges out cata in the polls because it really is not all that much better. In fact it's worse IMO and Cataclysm was at least casual friendly if you had the ability to beat the fucking dungeons, which I did. Now I understand not everybody did and it was frustrating so I'm in favor of nerfing dungeons and making them piss easy to. I am not however in favor of nerfing the reward behind them to shove everybody into raiding.

Ultimately the larger problem is they need something new to do in the game that isn't raiding or any form of pve content. Like I get on the dungeon band wagon because they were bite sized form of wow that you could jump in and not commit 3 hours of your life to and do with a small group of pals. It was far less annoying and tedious than lfr. However they need SOMETHING that isn't instanced pve content to keep people around because well the model is stale and boring and it'll be stale and boring in eso to, if eso goes that route. Dungeons were at least a bite sized version that you could tolerate even ENJOY for an hour or two here or there (i.e CASUAL GAMEPLAY) but lfr and then normal raiding over and over and over again is disgusting and I know of almost no "casual" player (or at least a player befitting the title "casual") who either has the time or the stomach to invest in that bullshit. I certainly didn't for any sustained period of time.

[Valstorm Warsong]

I was starting to feel really skeptical about this game, after seeing the leaked/official videos. When they announced their payment model it got my hopes up a bit, now only to be shattered by the announcement of cash shops being in the game. As it stands now, I probably wont buy this game.

[Archangel Tyrael]

snip

Isn't Pokemon and WoW's version of Farmville content aimed at casuals? (since you talked about casuals needing something to do other than Dungeons/Raids)

[Glorious Leader]

Isn't Pokemon and WoW's version of Farmville content aimed at casuals? (since you talked about casuals needing something to do other than Dungeons/Raids)

Pokemon certainly, the farm less so. The farm is another sort of daily thing. Every day you miss (i.e every day you treat the game casually) your not getting progress. It lacks a "catch up". Neither form of content offers the player much character advancement though. If character progression is the "carrot" at the end of the stick then pokemon and the farm are poor attempts to keep casual players.

Notice I don't think it's just casuals who need an alternative to other dungeons and raids, I think the entire game needs a facelift in that regard and that includes hardcores as well. MMOs in general actually. Hopefully ESO goes a different route and has some fresh to offer the genre. Or maybe not.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Pokemon certainly, the farm less so. The farm is another sort of daily thing. Every day you miss (i.e every day you treat the game casually) your not getting progress. It lacks a "catch up". Neither form of content offers the player much character advancement though. If character progression is the "carrot" at the end of the stick then pokemon and the farm are poor attempts to keep casual players.

Notice I don't think it's just casuals who need an alternative to other dungeons and raids, I think the entire game needs a facelift in that regard and that includes hardcores as well. MMOs in general actually. Hopefully ESO goes a different route and has some fresh to offer the genre. Or maybe not.

Well, that I can agree on, as I already said in my other posts.

We need something fresh/new/exciting to do, outside dungeons/raids and PvP.
Don't ask me what though, I'm not a game developer, that's up for them to create/think about.

[Abbzow]

So....You need to buy the game for what...60$?, then they demand 15$ a month?....And ofcourse the micro transactions we musn't forget.

I can already see the future of this game, and It's not positive I can tell.

[Semihage]

How many of the 4,5 million ex-WoW subscribers do you think are sitting on the fence waiting for another MMO to equal or better WoW in quality? When the EA people reckoned the potential MMO market would be over 20 million for a subscription based MMO, their math wasn't wrong, their game was. If an MMO can deliver high quality content and quick patches, there really isn't anything implying they can't have 5-6 million subs 3 years into the game. Now, the company has to work hard AND be patient to achieve this, which unfortunately is very rare in today's gaming industry. My bet is also that ESO will be a F2P or B2P with some sort of cash shop within 1,5 years of release.

But thinking WoW players won't quit their game for something better/different is naive at best and recent sub numbers confirms that. Blizzard lost touch with their gamers and tried to appeal to everyone, but it turns out "everyone" don't like MoP and they got alot to correct come The Dark Below. I'm for one is expecting Blizzard to pull something amazing out their sleeves to counter the impact EQ Next, Wildstar and TESO will have on WoW. I presume you read the news about Blizz not hiring for Titan anymore? I'm thinking the Titan team is more or less working on WoW now. It might be hoping too much, but I believe we haven't seen the last of WoW either.

And does ESO offered ANYTHING that convinced these ex-WoW players that the game is better than WoW? I haven't seen anything.. One of the main reason wow can still charge 15 bucks per month is that it's extremely polished thanks to it's 10 years worth of development. Also a lot of ppl are still playing WoW because a huge chunk of their social life exist in there (yeah it's sad.. but that's the truth).

MMORPG is all about churn. You will have people leaving, but then you want to attract new people to come in. WoW does a great job keeping ppl in the game, but for a completely new MMORPG player, F2P or B2P seems a lot more attractive vs levelling to 90 all by yourself.

[Vankrys]

And does ESO offered ANYTHING that convinced these ex-WoW players that the game is better than WoW? I haven't seen anything.. One of the main reason wow can still charge 15 bucks per month is that it's extremely polished thanks to it's 10 years worth of development. Also a lot of ppl are still playing WoW because a huge chunk of their social life exist in there (yeah it's sad.. but that's the truth).

MMORPG is all about churn. You will have people leaving, but then you want to attract new people to come in. WoW does a great job keeping ppl in the game, but for a completely new MMORPG player, F2P or B2P seems a lot more attractive vs levelling to 90 all by yourself.

i'll take that you are still playing wow, so i understand that you enjoy what wow has to offer thus, you are not attracted with TESO, seems logical. Now if you are the group of player that currently play wow, you are not in the same state of mind of the millions that don't play anymore,(and not just 4 millions, they maybe 20 or more millions that have once played wow). So you can't possibly act as their spokesperson and state what they want or don't want to play, can you?

[RoninaThorstone]

And does ESO offered ANYTHING that convinced these ex-WoW players that the game is better than WoW? I haven't seen anything.. One of the main reason wow can still charge 15 bucks per month is that it's extremely polished thanks to it's 10 years worth of development. Also a lot of ppl are still playing WoW because a huge chunk of their social life exist in there (yeah it's sad.. but that's the truth).

MMORPG is all about churn. You will have people leaving, but then you want to attract new people to come in. WoW does a great job keeping ppl in the game, but for a completely new MMORPG player, F2P or B2P seems a lot more attractive vs levelling to 90 all by yourself.

- Alternative leveling design
- TES combat
- New universe (some people might be side of stormwind)
- flexible class system
- non trinity grouping (from what I've read)
- voice acting

I mean, without breaking the NDA there's a lot of things people could prefer in TESO over WoW. Just because you can not see yourself enjoying those aspects, doesn't mean other won't.

(granted, launching as subscription + box is silly. But that doesn't mean there aren't aspects of TESO that people will love)

[Lemmiwink]

That is always the viewpoint of a current WoW gamer on a forum. There is nothing other games can offer that will be better than WoW ever. Without breaking the NDA, all I can say is WoW will have heavy competition this time around. Not just from ESO, but from Wildstar and probably EQ Next as well. Blizzard's got their hands full now and they need to absolutely kick ass with the next expansion.

My dream: World of warcraft : A world reborn If they were to remake the whole game and update it to todays level of graphics etc. WoW would no doubt reign supreme for the next ten years as well. If not, I can see WoW having to go F2P to stay alive. Hope that won't happen though, Blizzard games are way too good to be left out in the shadow by up-and-comers.