Poll: Should wealth be redistributed?

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  1. #721
    Just implement a flat tax and everyone gets punched in the crotch an equal share (that's percentage not dollar amount for you noob faces). Who cares how much a person makes? Then the government cant learn how to live off what they have and not more. See, I should run for president!

    PS - I will agree with the spreading of the wealth when I see everyone who likes that idea give what they have to a person who has less. Yes, that means you who makes $8/hr giving your money to someone who make $6/hr.
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  2. #722
    Yes, but that means someone whose making 24,000$ an hour carrying you who makes 8$ and hour to something. There is always a bigger fish.

    Also how is it fair that corporations and the wealthy get negative tax returns? I know they want to spread the tax spectrum but, hey they could atleast not be leechs.

  3. #723
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperdream View Post
    There are plenty of rich people who earned their money through stupid ways like inheritance.
    Their money should be more taxed in my opinion. But even that money shouldn't be redistributed.

    In my opinion, everyone who voted yes is probably someone who's just to lazy to find a job and wants social services to pay for their lazy ass.
    I know it's harsh, but the rich already pay huge amount of taxes.

    I think you and everybody voting NO miss the point, we are not talking about redistributing someones right to own whatever the hell they want, or be stinking filthy rich, but I think the objective truth you miss is that there is NO inheritance, and no way that ANYONE could or SHOULD be allowed to earn the rights over others and seal off opprotunity for anyone but themselves and who they favor.

    There is NOTHING about capatalism that suggest that, but that is the way it is, the people that invisioned the future for this country actually came to America seeking the very same kind of oppression that is thrust upon almost EVERYBODY now, and that is fine if you agree that is the way it should be, but DON'T pretend that the current structure and those who make it successful and have more than 1% of the notes money is printed on, but have control of almost ALL the resources along with it, that is really what the question comes down to.

    Do you support the current system, because you secretly hope its you some day that gets to obtain the kind of power some on the right froth at the mouth about getting and some on the left delusionally think, any one person has?

    Seriously it isn't a conspiracy, anymore than it is a non problem, the current structure is FLAWED, Capatalism is BROKEN, and the evidence is the world we LIVE IN PERIOD.

  4. #724
    Absolutely not! I made $4.25 an hour my first job, $10.00 and hour my second, $14.00 an hour third and now I make close to 100k a year. Because I worked hard, bettered myself, and now have a great paying job, I have to give some lazy ass prick part of my earnings, Oh hell no!

    Here is an idea, the 50% of people not paying taxes need to start paying them. Redistribute wealth and pay your fair share my @$$.

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I think you and everybody voting NO miss the point, we are not talking about redistributing someones right to own whatever the hell they want, or be stinking filthy rich, but I think the objective truth you miss is that there is NO inheritance, and no way that ANYONE could or SHOULD be allowed to earn the rights over others and seal off opprotunity for anyone but themselves and who they favor.

    There is NOTHING about capatalism that suggest that, but that is the way it is, the people that invisioned the future for this country actually came to America seeking the very same kind of oppression that is thrust upon almost EVERYBODY now, and that is fine if you agree that is the way it should be, but DON'T pretend that the current structure and those who make it successful and have more than 1% of the notes money is printed on, but have control of almost ALL the resources along with it, that is really what the question comes down to.

    Do you support the current system, because you secretly hope its you some day that gets to obtain the kind of power some on the right froth at the mouth about getting and some on the left delusionally think, any one person has?

    Seriously it isn't a conspiracy, anymore than it is a non problem, the current structure is FLAWED, Capatalism is BROKEN, and the evidence is the world we LIVE IN PERIOD.
    Well, do you just want a world then where everyone gets the same salary? Doctors and toilet cleaners getting the same salary? No thank you.

    The structure is fine. There are just people that abuse it. This is where social security comes in, with a large social safety net most people will be taken care of should they ever get broke, lose money due to bad investments etc. In my country this works fine, but in out countries like the US it's pretty much every man for himself from what I've heard. Capitalism + Socialism = The right structure.
    I do agree with you though that capitalism on it's own is a flaw though.

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Yogurthewise View Post
    Absolutely not! I made $4.25 an hour my first job, $10.00 and hour my second, $14.00 an hour third and now I make close to 100k a year. Because I worked hard, bettered myself, and now have a great paying job, I have to give some lazy ass prick part of my earnings, Oh hell no!
    How about a CEO that was born into a wealthy family, was entitled to everything, did NOT have to bust their ass at a low-paying job ever, and got his 8-figure salary because of his connections, not because he worked hard and bettered himself?

    I'm not trying to diminish your achievement, but don't you think there is a little better use for the money in the hypothetical I described? (And let's be honest, that hypothetical happens) This is me on my crazy tangent, but I'm sorry nobody "needs" to make multiple millions a year. I'm not saying arbitrary salary caps or pay everyone the same or anything of that nature, it's more that I see so many more uses that money could go to.

    Think of what we could accomplish if all that money was routed towards "making society better" or whatever you want to call it. Problem is money used to be a means to an ends, now it's just an ends.

    "Oh, I need my 60 million golden parachute after I totally messed up the company!"
    No. No you do not.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogurthewise View Post
    Absolutely not! I made $4.25 an hour my first job, $10.00 and hour my second, $14.00 an hour third and now I make close to 100k a year. Because I worked hard, bettered myself, and now have a great paying job, I have to give some lazy ass prick part of my earnings, Oh hell no!

    Here is an idea, the 50% of people not paying taxes need to start paying them. Redistribute wealth and pay your fair share my @$$.
    Wrong you were allowed to make 4.25$ to begin with because of a working wage lobbied by a lot of people that is seems you would disagree with, who if otherwise for not your first job could very well have been 50 cents an hour and you might not have had the OPPROTUNITY to better yourself no matter how hard you worked. As for the rest of the JOBS and work you did, let us also not forget the thousands upon thousands and millions of those who took it and had it taken from somewhere to afford for that also.


    See you obviously have a serious ignorance as to WHERE things come from, Money is a Tool and a symbol, it is by no means a validation, or a measure of true human worth, Unless you really Think Paris Hilton produces more in tthis world than a Doctor, treating terminally ill patience with cancer, or trying improve the quality of over all life for other human beings.

    You are ever bit as much a part of the problem as anybody you suggest is sitting on the doll and collecting a check. So your problem comes down to either a lack of consistancy in how you think your standards in life should be applied, or you are just another guy with an opinion.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Wrong you were allowed to make 4.25$ to begin with because of a working wage lobbied by a lot of people that is seems you would disagree with, who if otherwise for not your first job could very well have been 50 cents an hour and you might not have had the OPPROTUNITY to better yourself no matter how hard you worked. As for the rest of the JOBS and work you did, let us also not forget the thousands upon thousands and millions of those who took it and had it taken from somewhere to afford for that also.
    But how about look at it this way.

    That $4.25 is minimum wage in US I assume? Means EVERYONE is entitled to work and make $4.25 an hour, him, and other people who do the same job, are on an equal footing. However, HE bettered himself, and moved onto $10/hr, what about the others that were also at $4.25? Didn't they have the same opportunity to better themselves also?

    They were on equal pay, so they should be able to afford the same opportunities also right? As much as people say a lot of people out there didn't even get given the chance to better themselves, there are even more people out there that are not trying hard enough to better themselves.

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    But how about look at it this way.

    That $4.25 is minimum wage in US I assume? Means EVERYONE is entitled to work and make $4.25 an hour, him, and other people who do the same job, are on an equal footing. However, HE bettered himself, and moved onto $10/hr, what about the others that were also at $4.25? Didn't they have the same opportunity to better themselves also?

    They were on equal pay, so they should be able to afford the same opportunities also right? As much as people say a lot of people out there didn't even get given the chance to better themselves, there are even more people out there that are not trying hard enough to better themselves.

    I see what you are saying, and it would be nice if the world worked that way, but it doesn't see because not everybody even gets that $4.25 he got. Keep in mind also to that BUSINESS in this country didn't out of the decency or kindness of their own hearts agree to that standard, it took a lot of people who took the hits, and fought to campagin for even that.

    My over all arguement is that this guy talking about how he bettered himself, like many others has a short term memory, and a serious lack of understanding as it relates to the fundamentals and process of how we in this country arrived this far. Yes it is BETTER, but that doesn't mean it is the best we can do, and it doesn't mean for every person that makes it, everybody who doesn't just didn't want it or didnt try hard enough.


    Keep in mind this country also has a history of when goverment DIDN'T step in and do anything on their own, and companys and corporations DID as they liked, the horrid conditions sweat shops, and near Slave labor that many on both the left and right complain about and cry a foul happening other places DID happen here in the GOOD OL US of A, during some of those Better times people like to pine for and how GOOD WE HAD IT.

    Well guess what WE DIDN'T always, and there were ALWAYS those looking at things in the long run realising and fighting to see how much better we can do.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    But how about look at it this way.

    That $4.25 is minimum wage in US I assume? Means EVERYONE is entitled to work and make $4.25 an hour, him, and other people who do the same job, are on an equal footing. However, HE bettered himself, and moved onto $10/hr, what about the others that were also at $4.25? Didn't they have the same opportunity to better themselves also?

    They were on equal pay, so they should be able to afford the same opportunities also right? As much as people say a lot of people out there didn't even get given the chance to better themselves, there are even more people out there that are not trying hard enough to better themselves.
    How can you call 4.25/hr an opportunity to better yourself with a straight face?

  11. #731
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    I do agree, for the lower classes, especially dependent on area, minimum wage should be regularly reviewed against inflation, to make sure they can at least provide all the basics of life.

    But after that, it really does come down to the person to better themselves and catch a good opportunity. Opportunities unfoortunately isn't something you can make even chance for everyone, whether it comes down to a new position in a company just got opened up (not everyone has the right skill or geographical opportunity to apply for it), or even a strip bar hiring new stripers, if you are male candidate or female but not in good looks or shape, you are screwed out of that opportunity. However, while opportunities can often be a barrier for someone to climb upwards, a lot of it also down to personal effort.

    Stuck at doing admin work? Do a book keeping course (those are cheap), or computing course, accounting course (while something like ACCA are expensive, something like AAT is reasonably cheap and widely use), there ARE affordable professional studies out there, but how many people have access to those but never bothered to even think about it because "awww but I don't want to study, I want my free time". And then moans about it when they apply for a new position but lost to someone who DID go through the effort, and claim that they didn't have the same opportunity, plenty of people like this exists (unfortunately I even know a few, tried to smack that idea into their head but doesn't seem to be working).

    So I think while the bottom line need to make sure to be above a "livable standard", and many companies offers study package nowadays (may be they can even make it mandatory so everyone at least have the opportunities to better themselves as long as they are willing to put the work into it), after that it really should be down to each person's motivation to climb.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 12:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    How can you call 4.25/hr an opportunity to better yourself with a straight face?

    That guy did it, I don't know how he did it, for those that couldn't may be they can ask him for advice?

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    I do agree, for the lower classes, especially dependent on area, minimum wage should be regularly reviewed against inflation, to make sure they can at least provide all the basics of life.

    But after that, it really does come down to the person to better themselves and catch a good opportunity. Opportunities unfoortunately isn't something you can make even chance for everyone, whether it comes down to a new position in a company just got opened up (not everyone has the right skill or geographical opportunity to apply for it), or even a strip bar hiring new stripers, if you are male candidate or female but not in good looks or shape, you are screwed out of that opportunity. However, while opportunities can often be a barrier for someone to climb upwards, a lot of it also down to personal effort.

    Stuck at doing admin work? Do a book keeping course (those are cheap), or computing course, accounting course (while something like ACCA are expensive, something like AAT is reasonably cheap and widely use), there ARE affordable professional studies out there, but how many people have access to those but never bothered to even think about it because "awww but I don't want to study, I want my free time". And then moans about it when they apply for a new position but lost to someone who DID go through the effort, and claim that they didn't have the same opportunity, plenty of people like this exists (unfortunately I even know a few, tried to smack that idea into their head but doesn't seem to be working).

    So I think while the bottom line need to make sure to be above a "livable standard", and many companies offers study package nowadays (may be they can even make it mandatory so everyone at least have the opportunities to better themselves as long as they are willing to put the work into it), after that it really should be down to each person's motivation to climb.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 12:11 AM ----------




    That guy did it, I don't know how he did it, for those that couldn't may be they can ask him for advice?


    No, I get what you are saying, and you make many great, and true points, but what I am saying is that all the problems of the world don't begin and end anymore with some rich fat cat guy behind a desk with ungodly emounts of money rubbing his hands together, anymore than some lazy slob who refuses to apply themselves and lives on the doll.


    In truth love or hate people the reality is, MOST people are just trying to do the best they can or KNOW, and no that isnt always enough, but I get annoyed at anybody who suggest just because they don't like the way someone lives, that gives anybody else the right to get over on them with THINGS, as though that makes someone any better of a person than if they were with out.



    Good people, decent people can be anywhere, and plenty are doing, but it isn't the best everybody can do, and we should always look to create atmosphere, the way we would like it, not always the barriers we had to go through, as though anyone is superior per say.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No, I get what you are saying, and you make many great, and true points, but what I am saying is that all the problems of the world don't begin and end anymore with some rich fat cat guy behind a desk with ungodly emounts of money rubbing his hands together, anymore than some lazy slob who refuses to apply themselves and lives on the doll.
    As much as I don't agree with people like that, but that money came from somewhere, whether it is their parents fought for that business empire that got passed down onto him, or luck of the draw through lottery, but, he is entitled to that money by the acquisition of it originally.

    And the second point it, this world is less about COMPASSION, and more about COMPETITION nowadays. Everyone trying to tell themselves that they worth more than the person next to them, how much you earn against your friends and colleague, hell even playing game where we work as a team we look at the dps meter, the idea of competition had long drilled into our mind already, hence most people will be the way they are.

    Not too sure about your last paragraph though.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    How can you call 4.25/hr an opportunity to better yourself with a straight face?
    That hasn't been the minimum wage in the US since like 1989.

  15. #735
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    No, but I don't agree with 1% owning 99% of the wealth either.

  16. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    That hasn't been the minimum wage in the US since like 1989.
    Thank god.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

    This almost makes me want to move to San Francisco. Also, sucks to be Puerto Rico.
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  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    As much as I don't agree with people like that, but that money came from somewhere, whether it is their parents fought for that business empire that got passed down onto him, or luck of the draw through lottery, but, he is entitled to that money by the acquisition of it originally.

    And the second point it, this world is less about COMPASSION, and more about COMPETITION nowadays. Everyone trying to tell themselves that they worth more than the person next to them, how much you earn against your friends and colleague, hell even playing game where we work as a team we look at the dps meter, the idea of competition had long drilled into our mind already, hence most people will be the way they are.

    Not too sure about your last paragraph though.

    Yeah, but I hope you understand the problem isn't money, its the resource that it reflects, I am not saying cap what people can have, but there has to be a limit of how much can be held up of other people, it's beyond just have, or have nots.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by Davendwarf View Post
    Thank god.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

    This almost makes me want to move to San Francisco. Also, sucks to be Puerto Rico.
    It's all about cost of living. Sure min wage in CA is like 8 bucks, but stuff is so much more expensive out there. I remember reading an article talking about how the public buss drivers in NYC were griping about not being paid enough and thinking about striking. They made on average 50k at the time. SHIT! Where i live that puts me into upper middle class...but in one of the five Burroughs that just doesn't go that far.

  19. #739
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I am not saying cap what people can have, but there has to be a limit of how much can be held up of other people
    But in a world where resource is not unlimited, and even the money circulating in the economy is limited, how are those 2 differ?

  20. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    But in a world where resource is not unlimited, and even the money circulating in the economy is limited, how are those 2 differ?
    Because relatively speaking THINGS (money) can be created, and then recreated, you know the saying you can't take it with you, but what the money represents resources tools, opprotunities to build schools, to educate others, to seek out and tap some of the best and better mind to tackle social problems, science.

    It isn't about how big of a boat others think you should buy, it is about the fact that for the most part, is hoarded. Innovation is stalled, much needed improvements aren't realise, because what, someone who has what they feel is their right and earned are entitled to limit that, yeah sorry I just don't subscribe to that being logical or reasonable.

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