Concerned about long-term draw of the game

[Simca]

Guild Wars games (both 1 and 2 but moreso 2) are not the typical MMO experiences. Honestly, I don't think any MMO without a monthly fee will feel the same. At least for me, I feel like I have to continue to accomplish things to justify spending money each month on WoW.

Guild Wars doesn't have this sense of impending doom if you don't accomplish anything, which is a good thing, not a bad thing. I feel I could probably play it as a full time MMO and I probably wouldn't even sink as much time into it which isn't a terrible thing either.

That all said, I will play both games.

[DrakeWurrum]

I want to emphasize: Despite the word-of-mouth that takes short phrases mentioned by ANet too far, gear in this game matters more than just cosmetically.

Gear has stats. That's important to know. Even more important, as you are leveling, those stats go higher. As you get higher-quality drops, those stats go higher. All the while, you also get "upgrade components" which you can attach to gear for various bonuses, which are not always static "Here, have X more stats" things, but can sometimes be really fancy effects, even effects unique to your profession.

Even when you get to the point where you are fully decked out in the highest quality gear possible for a max level character, you have to consider that there is no end-all be-all allocation of stats for any profession or build. You have to min/max, to your own tastes and builds, how much Power you want, how much Vitality you want, how much Precision you want, and so on and so forth.

So for people like me who still get a lot of fun out of the numbers side of an MMO... it's there. Don't let catchy phrases confuse you.


To continue with the idea of "stuff" to do: there's skill challenges all around the world, skills to unlock (which will be expanded/changed in expansions, mind you), a world to explore, achievements to earn, bosses to defeat, etc... etc... etc.
There is a LOT to accomplish in this game. You can't really grasp the sheer scope of "stuff" to do until you've gotten your hands on it and taken a look at the completion stuff. Every time you open your world map, you see on your map how much of the world you've completed - and that's only in regards to Renown Hearts, Waypoints, and Skill Challenges (it has nothing to do with whether or not you've seen every DE there is). You can still also open the Achievements window - some of which are daily or even weekly achievements, mind you, which give you a reason to keep doing DEs outside of just doing them, if you happen to like having goals. There's also the Personal Story, with it's very own tab in your hero panel. It may be a one-time-only deal, but it's still a goal, and each expansion is likely to have a new story.

The lack of tier-based progression, and the supposed lack of gear progression, does not mean there is less stuff to do, or less stuff to keep you playing. That just means there's other stuff to do, and you're not given an illusion of increasing power to keep you interested.
(Emphasis on illusion: no matter how much power you gain in WoW, your enemies always gain just enough power to remain a threat to you - all GW2 does is get rid of that illusion altogether and show you the honest truth up front)

[Glytch]

I wonder how gems and sigils/runes will compare to each other since they share the same upgrade slot

Guess I gotta roll arti and jeweler next time

Hope it doesn't turn out like wow where stats are universally better

Even gw1 most stuck with 20/20 for 99% of the game

Unless you gvged then you had your 500 weapon shield sets

[DrakeWurrum]

From what little messing around I did with crafting (obviously didn't get far) it seemed like certain runes would only apply to armor, and certain runes would only apply to weapons, and that runes never applied to accessory items (none of the runes I crafted anyways). It seemed to me that gems were specifically for accessories. Once I even got a ring reward that had an empty slot, and I spent several levels trying to just find a karma vendor with gems, until the next part of the personal story gave me a gem straight-up.


I am likely to lose several hours of my life with the crafting system.

[Labskaus]

I'm all fine with cosmetic gear. So there will be plenty much to do for me in this game, because i'll like to change the Outfit for some reasons. Besides that, there is so much to explore (DE's, WvW, Skillpoints and such) and so many personal stories that i'll be playing for a long time.

[DrakeWurrum]

I'm all fine with cosmetic gear.

See my earlier post for explanation of how it's not purely cosmetic.


Hence why I don't like this clearly-biased poll.

[Glytch]

From what little messing around I did with crafting (obviously didn't get far) it seemed like certain runes would only apply to armor, and certain runes would only apply to weapons, and that runes never applied to accessory items (none of the runes I crafted anyways). It seemed to me that gems were specifically for accessories. Once I even got a ring reward that had an empty slot, and I spent several levels trying to just find a karma vendor with gems, until the next part of the personal story gave me a gem straight-up.


I am likely to lose several hours of my life with the crafting system.

By definition:
Sigil: a weapon only upgrade
Rune: an armor only upgrade. Note some but not all runes are part of a set

Gems are upgrades that can be put into upgrade slots (sigils and runes go here too ). Some but not all gems go in accessories only (for this discussion well call them jewels)

Every item consists of:
The base item: contains the slot and type (sword or mace and heavy or light armor) things like damage values and armor values live here
Stats: these determine the prefix of the item, it is evident that there is a set naming convention with stat prefixes so we should assume that stats are determined with specific proportions with varying amounts of magnitude. Thus don't expect gear with +100 power and another piece of gear with 99 power and 1 precision
Upgrade slot: this where gems, jewels, sigils, or runes go. It determines the suffix of the item

Based on the items witnessed in pve and strh turned pvp premade items it seems all items fit this mould

My concern is that gems will outweigh sigils and runes since they'll be the safe options

[Lucky_]

Gear stats matter, a lot. For example, upon creation of a PvP necromancer, you got a vitality set. That meant you ended up with >22k HP.

Elemetalists got power/crit set. They ended up with ~11k HP. If you changed neck to vitality and a couple of other items around to vitality ones, you went up to >20k.

[probert]

Its not just cosmetics. Its also achievements. There's also reputations/prestiege and activity points that help you unlock guild abilities and features too.

And finally, there's your personal story line x 5 races (x8 classes).

Frankly, I think this game will have MORE draw to keep playing, than WoW does. WoW is highly repetitive, GW2 seems more like Rift in that there's more variety of things to do.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Frankly, I think this game will have MORE draw to keep playing, than WoW does. WoW is highly repetitive, GW2 seems more like Rift in that there's more variety of things to do.

Again, subjective. To me GW2 does not have more draw than my mount collecting, rare beasts, companion pets, HC bosses and so on in WoW. The draw for me in GW2 is exploration and when that's done, I'm done with the game until new content comes out.

No other game than WoW has kept me playing it every day for so many years. And I'm not fond of boring repetition so...people calling WoW repetitive must simply be playing it that way.

[Balfire]

The idea is to play for fun, not gear. If you're not having fun, take a break. There is no sub fee, meaning that they do not need to implement anything to 'force' you to continue playing to stay relevant, and you can leave and return without falling behind.

This. That's one of the great things about GW2 when you've completed what you want (crafting, dungeons, mini-games, DE's, PvP, etc.) You can log of and not feel like you are wasting time. In WoW i would miss a day and say "SHIT IM BEHIND IN VALOR POINTS SAFKLJSFKAJFA"

On the other hand you can play as much as you want and probably still find something you enjoy.
-DE's are always changing and always running (I'm a sucker for content and story this alone will have me playing this game well past 80)
-Dungeons all have multiple paths (^^)
-This game has an achievement system (as a previous 2 time Insane in the Membrane holder and a 42/50 HoM GW1 player this will keep me playing for years if done correctly)
-Characters are highly customizable in look and build (I spent hours just playing with the traits and skills in the mists.)


But then again everything in the first two sections of my post was fun to me!

But really you say will it be a game you play "for fun" or like a normal MMO. Doesn't that just point out the sad logic and psychology of games like WoW why do you want to keep grinding and raiding if its not fun? Why is it even a choice.

[DrakeWurrum]

Again, subjective. To me GW2 does not have more draw than my mount collecting, rare beasts, companion pets, HC bosses and so on in WoW. The draw for me in GW2 is exploration and when that's done, I'm done with the game until new content comes out.

No other game than WoW has kept me playing it every day for so many years. And I'm not fond of boring repetition so...people calling WoW repetitive must simply be playing it that way.

Or maybe it's just the case that some people have different opinions than you and can recognize patterns that you don't.

Stop trying so hard to defend WoW everywhere, please. There's nothing wrong with having negative opinions about WoW formed from large amounts of personal experience that differed from yours. At least when I jump on people for saying bad things about GW2, I do it because they simply say things like "it sucks" and because they're judging an incomplete beta, rather than judging the game itself.

I personally agree that WoW is intentionally designed to be repetitive (Which, I feel obliged to point out, is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just how WoW design draws you in). I mean, how many months have we been in Dragon Soul now, for example? Aren't we specifically asked to repeat the same raid content week after week?

I'm done with WoW until the next expac comes out, and I decided that months ago when I realized that T13 is just like the last two tiers, only with different mechanics. When I realized that I was not going to experience anything truly new or refreshing for months. I have so many freaking mounts and pets and achievements and vanity items on my main, and I didn't much care to collect more .

[Morgaith]

The thing is that what Arenanet has to understand is that they will have to put up great and continuous rewards from the event in the game, that's what Rift did wrong and cost them a whole lot of players. Even more now that the event-reward endgame will be most of the endgame.

[DrakeWurrum]

The thing is that what Arenanet has to understand is that they will have to put up great and continuous rewards from the event in the game, that's what Rift did wrong and cost them a whole lot of players. Even more now that the event-reward endgame will be most of the endgame.

There are. Don't you worry about that.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't care so much if gw2 had the WoW kind of gear, as long as the way you get that gear is fun.
not do some stuff over and over and over and over again, maybe that appeals to some people but not to me.

[Deleted]

There are. Don't you worry about that.

Are all of your post so condescending and useless? Certainly feels that way.

Why do you even partake in discussions if you have no interest in constructive discussions?


You offer no prove, no examples, no nothing to prove your point and thus have to right to simply brush of other opinions as wrong. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

[DrakeWurrum]

Are all of your post so condescending and useless? Certainly feels that way.

Are all of your posts focused entirely on attacking people rather than participating in a discussion?

It's absolutely not condescending to bluntly say that there are continuous rewards to work for in this game, and I don't feel like pointing them out, again, when I've already done so earlier in the thread. It's even on this exact page of the thread, all you have to do is scroll up.

[Radux]

Let's tone it down some, yeah?

Try to keep on topic and less of the attacking each other, please.

[Deleted]

Are all of your posts focused entirely on attacking people rather than participating in a discussion?

It's absolutely not condescending to bluntly say that there are continuous rewards to work for in this game, and I don't feel like pointing them out, again, when I've already done so earlier in the thread. It's even on this exact page of the thread, all you have to do is scroll up.

I've read numerous comments of yours today that can alle be summed up with "GW2 will be perfect, you guys just don't get it!".

If you wanna go ahead an be a fanboy, good for you. But it's a shitty attitude to have when you're participating in a discussion. Because unless you have some unique connection to the Devs you don't know any more about the game than anyone else here.

Taking other people's opinion seriously is a necessity for having good discussions.

[DrakeWurrum]

I've read numerous comments of yours today that can alle be summed up with "GW2 will be perfect, you guys just don't get it!".

If you wanna go ahead an be a fanboy, good for you. But it's a shitty attitude to have when you're participating in a discussion. Because unless you have some unique connection to the Devs you don't know any more about the game than anyone else here.

Taking other people's opinion seriously is a necessity for having good discussions.

You've clearly been banned and cannot yet respond, but I feel it necessary to at least point this out: I do take other people's opinions seriously. I just recognize when their concerns are, while certainly reasonable, already taken care of by certain features or mechanics. I am not going to hold back on providing them accurate information to counter their concern that has been formed based on subjective opinion and word-of-mouth hype, just because it's considered taboo to actually praise a game for the features it pulls off well.

I certainly don't hold the belief that GW2 will be perfect. I don't like the story writing any more than I like WoW's story writing, for example. I also think the game lacks a tutorial, and I think the difficulty ramps up too quickly. I also think that ranged is way too easy to play. But these are also problems that can be addressed in beta, or at least mistakes that can be learned from for future expansions. Most of these problems have already been acknowledged by ANet.

More on-topic, and less about personal attacks: if you really want to see me post more elaborately in my response to him, I've done so, and it was about 8 hours before he posted.

Before BWE1, I was also very concerned about the long-term draw of this game, and being able to keep the more hardcore players interested for many months in a row. But after my weekend experience... I have no such qualms. It's really hard to describe just how much stuff there is to do without simply plopping you down into the game to see for yourself. I have no doubt that when the first GW2 expansion/campaign comes out with fresh content, I will still have not done everything.

To describe it makes you think "What? But WoW has achievements and exploration, and it was boring there!" but GW2 isn't WoW. That's not to say it's necessarily done better, but it's not done in nearly the same manner, and you can't judge your experiences in WoW to get a feeling for how fun or boring GW2 will be.
That's like saying that WoW bosses are boring because Diablo bosses are "boring" in your book.