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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    Because it generates poor players who have no clue about the game they are playing, instead of working in a team to down content they complain for easier content that can be completed quicker and they dont even want to make friends to do the content, they want the developer to do all that for them, If you cant make some friends on a server to do content, then perhaps mmos arent for you//

    LFD didn't create bad players; they already existed. So long as MMO's are around there will always be underperformers, trolls, elitists and people who are just clueless. On my server people rarely ever talk in chat and groups for heroics are hard enough to form let alone FPs. Can't exactly make friends when people are apparently ferociously antisocial and terrified of doing things out of guild or just talking to people in general.

    SWTOR needs an LFD tool; no one has fun sitting in Fleet for an hour or two putting groups together. No one. Also, people don't need to worry about it "destroying the server community" as they don't exist anyway.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    I dont tell the LFG haters how to play the game so stop telling me how to play. If I want to group with random people from other servers just so I can at least get groups who the hell are you to say I cant?
    You seem to be awfully comfortable telling us how to play, because that's what happens with LFD, your issue is either a population one that requires other solutions than a band aid LFD system, or it's exaggeration to promote your desires, or in a worst case scenario it's because people don't want to group with you. On top of this the first tier in TOR suffers a bit due to how easy it is to gear through operations compared to flash points hence less people will be inclined to do them further decreasing you pool of potential people to group with.

    You are doing the common mistake of not seeing the actual problems and asking for solutions to those instead of asking for the convenient one because it fit how you want the game to be played.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-05-10 at 04:08 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    LFD didn't create bad players; they already existed. So long as MMO's are around there will always be underperformers, trolls, elitists and people who are just clueless. On my server people rarely ever talk in chat and groups for heroics are hard enough to form let alone FPs. Can't exactly make friends when people are apparently ferociously antisocial and terrified of doing things out of guild or just talking to people in general.

    SWTOR needs an LFD tool; no one has fun sitting in Fleet for an hour or two putting groups together. No one. Also, people don't need to worry about it "destroying the server community" as they don't exist anyway.
    One of the things I like to point out, is the flaw inherent in merely adding a LFD tool. If people won't use it by itself, unless it rewards them too. Part of the biggest problem with building a group for HMs and FPs is that the only people who do them are people who are gearing. If you are already geared, there is no reason for you to do them, and so most people don't. Before they add a LFG, I think, they need to add a reason for people to want to do the FPs.

  4. #44
    because time saving and convenience are evil

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeardedOne View Post
    because time saving and convenience are evil
    No but convenience comes at a price, one that not everyone are willing to pay.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    LFG basically promotes playing by yourself. You no longer require help from a guild or players on your server to do content. You cant create friendships with players by sitting in a city all day waiting for a Q to pop. It becomes a lobby based game. When you are looking for players to do dungeons with in chat you get to know players on your server and they get to know you. You have more of a connection with your guild because you need those members to be active and you play with them more since your always doing dungeons with them. When players grow close they are less likely to unsub even if the game isnt for them.

    LFG breaks up all this letting players play by themselves, Sure they talk to other players on their server and they talk to guildies but that doesnt create bonds needed to build a community. You need to go through trials together and grow on each other and that isnt done by talking its done by playing alongside other players. LFG destroys this and shouldnt be added if you want to grow your game. Sure its a nice feature but its anti-productive.
    This is absolutely dependent on the person playing the game and has NOTHING to do with the Dungeon Finder tool that wow has created. Back when my guild was active, We would routinely have small groups, 2-3 people queuing non-stop in Dungeon Finder, never spending more than a few minutes to get a group. Dungeon finder ALWAYS picked from the people on your server before going cross server and we often were put in groups with people from our realm.

    I spent a considerable amount of time in Dalaran chatting to people to later group with and run random dungeons with using the LFG tool, along with most of the guild and most of the realm.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasper View Post
    To build a sense of community. Better question is: Why do you pay so much a month to play games online.
    15 dollars a month is not such a trouble with a full time job, or with a parent whom has a full time job. it really isn't.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    No but convenience comes at a price, one that not everyone are willing to pay.
    And how will that be with Single Server LFG? Most of the issues seem to arise from it being Cross-Server, for most people, so where is the problem with a Single Server one? Assuming transfers sort population per server out to a more reasonable level.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    And how will that be with Single Server LFG? Most of the issues seem to arise from it being Cross-Server, for most people, so where is the problem with a Single Server one? Assuming transfers sort population per server out to a more reasonable level.
    From my perspective it still brings the bad aspects of an automated system to some extent, like less interaction and a shortcut for bad geared or simply just bad players to be carried, with a sense of entitlement to boot. Now the issue with this will be, as pointed out earlier, why use it at all with no incentive, a global LFG channel serves the same purpose and you are able to choose who you invite, not only what person but also their class and spec that fit you need better hence not being 'forced' to carry some one.

    So at the end of it I see them needing to add incentive to use it, much like WoW does, and that's the path down toward nerfed content to cater to the lazy entitled insta gratification crowd, or simply put a waste of good resources to make it just like WoW which to be fair, if people wanted just that they would go play it.

    Edit: At a first glance it seems like the best compromise but in the end I think it won't solve anything a healthy server population and a global channel wouldn't do in the first place, as such a lot of time wasted making a feature that will help very little at the expense of getting transfers done sooner.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-05-10 at 06:05 AM.

  10. #50
    Well there are already the weekly and daily instance quests, and the new rakghoul weekly instance quest - I think things like this are incentive enough to form groups through it. Plus, WoW's first iteration of an LFG was a bunch of drop down lists, and you still needed to whisper others that were in those lists, this is automated group finding, but not just for instances.

    Want to raid? It does normal modes, want to do the Belsavis dailies? Does that too. It's much more versatile than WoW's.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    Well there are already the weekly and daily instance quests, and the new rakghoul weekly instance quest - I think things like this are incentive enough to form groups through it. Plus, WoW's first iteration of an LFG was a bunch of drop down lists, and you still needed to whisper others that were in those lists, this is automated group finding, but not just for instances.

    Want to raid? It does normal modes, want to do the Belsavis dailies? Does that too. It's much more versatile than WoW's.
    Sure, do 3 HMs. Done with the weekly. Maybe at worst 1 a day. But once you get your gear, you have no reason to do the dailies/weeklies any more, being they give at best columi gear. The weekly rakghoul, sure do them once a week, and you're done again. Those are worth the weekly, but doing them every day for the daily again give less gear than the instance itself, which is still trumped by HM tier 1 raiding, which is easier than the HMs.

  12. #52
    Koala covered what I would have said basically, it's not that I think it will be useless altogether, I just think it's not worth the time and effort spent developing, especially not over a quicker introduction of transfers that actually goes towards curing the core of the problem.

  13. #53
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    As long as the tool isn't going to be cross-server it won't ruin "community". Looking forward to this feature alot!
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixator View Post
    As long as the tool isn't going to be cross-server it won't ruin "community". Looking forward to this feature alot!
    We assume. I'm sure there will still be a few who feel the tool is there, they no longer need to worry about people on their server. Considering there are some without the tool, I can see more people starting to shift that way.

  15. #55
    Geez.. It's been discussed SO many times by now, I can't believe people starting threads about it again and again.
    Some... "people"... think that online games are all about having friends and guilds and play together. And that yelling in chat for hours "LF TANK FOR <dungeon name here>, or DPS LFG <insert dungeon name here>" helps you to make friends and build community. I disrespectfully disagree. This is a total bullshit. I like to play solo as much as only possible. But it's always good to group up for a dungeon or for a battleground time after time. I like to see ppl running by, I like them to see my progress in game, a good rare title or mount or a very good gear. But I don't like to be forced to rely on people. I like LFG tool because it allows me to avoid whispering, trying to get into a group, or trying to build one. It makes it all for myself. Granted, I have to wait. But unless I'm a tank I ALWAYS have to wait anyway. And I'm never a tank. Let me put it this way... I can't care LESS about other people in the game. I don't NEED friends. I don't want to RELY on friends. I don't want to HAVE to be in a guild to get my top possible gear. I don't want to HAVE to play something that I don't want to play because it's the best way to get into parties. I don't want to HAVE to be nice to others because I might hurt my reputation on server and ppl won't be taking me to dungeons/guilds. LFG tool allows me to play like I want. I can play some not viable class/spec and get into a party without asking. Elitists don't get to pick a, say, commando over my sentinel because "ranged are better for this dungeon". They just have to deal with it. With LFG tool I don't have any responsibility. I just play. If I wanted a community -- I'd join a guild. LFG tool allows both social and antisocial players to find thier place in a game.

    Take Tera right now for a perfect example. Good lfg tool working right from the launch of the game. Ppl use both, they lfg in open chats and they use this tool. If I don't see any party looking for dps, I just wait for my queue to pop up. It's perfect.

    I just wanna add something else to this "lfg tool ruins communities" bullshit. So I'm joining a party for some group quest in Tera, because some idiot there decided it's good to have group quests in a main storyline. And I'm all like "ugh why they have group quests in a main story line anyway" and another guy answers "It's cool. They gotta force us group up somehow, it's an mmo". Yeah force us. To do something many of us don't wanna do. In a game. Which is supposed to be fun. Well in any case, ok! So here we are all grouped up. Next what? Did we instantly became friends for life? Formed a guild? What? We done quests and disbanded party. We don't even remember each other's names. All that has been achieved by that grouping up was that we lost more time than if we could do it solo. Same goes for all this anti crosserver LFG tool bullshit. We group up, finish dungeon and disband party. That's all. It doesn't matters if we're all from same server or not, we won't remember each other anyway. So yeah, please stop this anti LFG tool bullshit. It is a mandatory for any mmo, it helps alot to by far most of ppl. And like it or not it WILL be in new mmos. Hopefully even right from the very start.
    Last edited by VincentWolf; 2012-05-10 at 08:42 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    I don't want to HAVE to be in a guild to get my top possible gear. I don't want to HAVE to play something that I don't want to play because it's the best way to get into parties. I don't want to HAVE to be nice to others because I might hurt my reputation on server and ppl won't be taking me to dungeons/guilds. LFG tool allows me to play like I want.
    Sounds like single player games is what you should be playing then, otherwise WoW is always there for you with it's LFD/LFR forcing others to carry you through dungeons mindlessly without ever communicating.

    Edit: Judging by the language in your post and how you describe your thoughts on interactions with others I'd say you are a part of why LFD/LFR has a bad rep in the first place, could obviously be wrong but highly doubt it.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-05-10 at 08:39 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    Some... "people"... think that online games are all about having friends and guilds and play together. And that yelling in chat for hours "LF TANK FOR <dungeon name here>, or DPS LFG <insert dungeon name here>" helps you to make friends and build community. I disrespectfully disagree.
    I'm going to ignore the rest of what you said, as it fairly well proves the people you are trying to disprove, and just touch on this. The truth is some "people" think that by making friends online in games you don't HAVE yell in chat for hours "LF TANK FOR <dungeon name here>. By making friends, some "people" can just whisper someone and say "wanna do a dungeon" and the group is made. Amazing.

    Of course, it is all pointless if there is no REASON to do dungeons, either with a group finder or without.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Cross realms LFG is opening the door to ANY kind of rude behavior without the backlash of getting a in-realm doushbag reputation.

    Single realm LFG would be neat i guess.

  19. #59
    I feel like server only lfg would be a great tool and so would be cross server, BUT ... the cross server should be active only if you are looking for group for too long. For example first 20 minutes in LFG you are own server only, after that you can go cross server if you want that option. Cross server group is better than no group at all ... but own server is better than cross server.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    I'm not against a LFG tool, not at all. It can be a great help finding a group (well duh) instead of spamming the Fleet for 10 mins for some people.

    The lack of LFG tool has however advantages that the usual "WoW-fed" playerbase has forgotten, in the sense that it forces a behavior out of people, a behavior that puts the social aspect of MMO back in the fray, something that group making tool and cross server stuff tends to break


    - Interaction with people besides the hi / goodbye thing you say when your group is automatically formed. In this game,i have a friend list, i have a reputation on my server, and people know they can count on me for healing in their group. This is something that the LFG tool makes somewhat disappear as in a click of a button any role can be filled.
    - The lack of cross server thingie has one advantage: When i do PVE or PVP, i know most of the people in my group, i know their guild. It's fun to do some pvp, knowing the players in the opposing team (or even your teammates) instead of complete strangers. Familiar faces add a plus to the whole experience.

    Now i'm not an "old school back then we spammed LFG SAND GIANT OASIS for 2H and it was awesome". LFG and cross server has huge advantages (that people have covered in the previous posts, and that i won't repeat), and i completely agree with them. What i realized too when those tools started to be used is that the social componant of the game started do decay FAST. And that's too bad for me.
    I mean how much interaction do you get with your average LFG dungeon group? It almost feels like playing with 3 Pets / 3 bots. Sure it is efficient, but it can also be extremely boring too.

    Yesterday i did play WZ with two groups of four people on our server, all on the same TS / mumble server. We ended several times playing one against another, and that was just one of the greatest times i had in game. Lotsa fun, we laughed a lot. The chances of this happening once cross server is developped will be of almost zero.

    Once again i'm not an apologist of the old school ways of old MMO. I agree that a LFG tool is needed, and cross server is needed too. I just love being the devil's advocate, and we shouldn't forget that the whole MMO perspective is about playing together, not with strangers that just represent a blue name over moving pixels.


    TLR

    a LFG tool is needed, but it sucks too because generally people start being asshole / strangers to each other and we all forget the social component of a MMO.

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