Blizzard All Stars

[Wildmoon]

No offense, but that doesn't really qualify you to comment on "the majority of the community" then. Playing a handful of matches only exposes you to a very, very small portion of the very, very large DOTA community. My experience has been when you start out, there are plenty of people like that. But as soon as you get 20 or so wins on your account, the atmosphere in Matchmaking switches dramatically. DOTA2 so far has been much better than either HON, LOL, or DOTA communities so far. However, that may be only because it's in "closed" beta still.

Also, who says Blizzard All-Stars will be immune to such a community?

You will experience less rage in Ballstar because its game lenght is shorter than Dota. That's it. It doesn't really fix the problem anyway.

[shalnath]

Agreed entirely. Let's take the skill and competitive gameplay out of DotA and just leave a shell of a game where you can blow shit up with a couple of really neat looking abilities. Yeah!


In general, and I say this with all sincere objectivity and don't mean it in any personal manner, but if you don't think DotA is the best game of the genre it's generally because you are very, very bad at it. In competitive matches the action is intense from the first minute. First bloods before the game even starts are not all that uncommon, and the amount of roaming and ganking even from the first few minutes of the game is high.

Wow, so someone can't be good at DotA without thinking it's the best? Now if that's your opinion, fine, but don't start calling people that don't like it "very, very bad at it" because I can tell you it's most definitely not the case. I've played just about every variation of AoS that existed on WC3 as well as both HoN and LoL. Every AoS has the potential to be intense, it's just up to the players to make it that way.

To try and say the game is nothing but afk farm is just really, really unnecessarily basic.

Not sure if you were talking to me, but if you were I believe I said everything but that about DotA. AFK farming and last hitting is actually a very small part of the game.

I'd also like to point out that, while quality does have something to do with it, being the most popular is far from being the best.

[PizzaSHARK]

Wow, so someone can't be good at DotA without thinking it's the best? Now if that's your opinion, fine, but don't start calling people that don't like it "very, very bad at it" because I can tell you it's most definitely not the case. I've played just about every variation of AoS that existed on WC3 as well as both HoN and LoL. Every AoS has the potential to be intense, it's just up to the players to make it that way.

There's no comparison. HoN is basically a clone of DotA though it's not very well balanced (they buffed Leshrac for some insane reason, to a ridiculous degree.) LoL takes a lot away from DotA in order to make it more accessible, and combined with its colorful, simple graphics, it's very popular. Popularity doesn't make it good, however.

There's no comparing DotA to anything else - they're either simplified versions of DotA (read: less skill involved), or they aren't trying to be DotA and shouldn't be compared anyway. HoN, LoL, they're both trying to be DotA. Blizzard Allstars: if it keeps the laning concept, it's trying to be DotA too.

[Minimoose]

There's no comparing DotA to anything else - they're either simplified versions of DotA (read: less skill involved), or they aren't trying to be DotA and shouldn't be compared anyway. HoN, LoL, they're both trying to be DotA. Blizzard Allstars: if it keeps the laning concept, it's trying to be DotA too.

I think LoL started trying to be DOTA, but gradually grew away from attempting it and is now its own game. Especially with the inclusion of Dominion, LoL is really branching into its own beast and not trying to be like DOTA any more. As such, there is no real point comparing the two. Rather, play the one you enjoy most.

On topic of Blizzard All Stars, the game looks interesting, but not really DOTA-like. It looks more like a WC3 style custom map based on fun and silliness, and less of an e-sport style. Especially with their goal of 10-20min games as stated in the video, it seems to be more casual goal. There's a lot I don't like about the video, especially how they exaggerate gameplay of DOTA to make it seem ridiculous ("One of you gets to be the all-star, the rest are stooges"); this is how carries are often viewed, but in reality carries are not "all-stars" and traditionally still need good support and initiation to succeed.

Also, did anyone else notice that the bottom right corner of the shop preview was A PAIR OF BOOTS?! Right after they talk about no boots. Maybe it's just a speed boost or something. Still, found it funny.

[Wildmoon]

There's no comparison. HoN is basically a clone of DotA though it's not very well balanced (they buffed Leshrac for some insane reason, to a ridiculous degree.) LoL takes a lot away from DotA in order to make it more accessible, and combined with its colorful, simple graphics, it's very popular. Popularity doesn't make it good, however.

There's no comparing DotA to anything else - they're either simplified versions of DotA (read: less skill involved), or they aren't trying to be DotA and shouldn't be compared anyway. HoN, LoL, they're both trying to be DotA. Blizzard Allstars: if it keeps the laning concept, it's trying to be DotA too.

Dota is not the first game to have lanning concept. Just because it has lanning concept doesn't mean it is trying to be Dota or it will be worse. If they are trying to be Dota then they wouldn't question many aspects in Dota that they don't like in the first place.

[Lysah]

I'd personally change the majority of the community. Never got into playing it, everyone was always bitching about other people while failing horribly themselves. Got tired of it after less than a handful of matches.

That's never going to happen =p
We all wish the community was better but this is just how it is. And every time someone is a jerk to someone else, that person starts being a jerk to other people.

This seems to be a side-effect of video games in general. It's not like people are horribly rude in MMOs like WoW, or FPS games, or other RTS genres like SC. Pretty much anywhere you hide on the internet jerks will find you, that's why the ignore list was created in DotA2. I have so many people ignored at this point that I go into games with people already on ignore more often than not.

@shalnath
That's obvious, look at LoL. Some millions of players and I haven't met a single person who has given both LoL and DotA2 a SERIOUS try and stuck with LoL. Even the people who are very, very bad at it (dota). Small world I guess, but being popular doesn't really have anything to do with this. I'm not trying to say blizzdota won't be successful, it's a blizzard game and so I'm sure it will be, enormously. It doesn't look interesting to me, though, and it probably won't affect the DotA community much at all.

[Fencers]

I have little doubt Blizzard would get the feel of the game down perfectly. Only Valve nails the tactile and feedback sensation as accurately as Blizzard.

Moving away from last hitting, making the game aster paced and more orientated to the idea of the lane push is goddamn brilliant. Super excited for this game.

Edit: And mounts? In a Blizzard game? Holy moley, am I gonna ride Invincible like a boss into mid lane? Yes, yes I am.

[Serj Tankian]

I'm quite excited for Blizzard DOTA (All Stars).

[Fencers]

Funny thing was someone started a thread months ago on the LOL sub forum asking what how to improve LOL. My response to that thread was v. close to the ideas Blizzard have for the genre.

Essentially I said current LOL and DOTA were too bloated and everything needs to be clearer, immediate and a snap. I even argued for less items and the removal of recipes in favor of upgrades. I brought these issues to bear in the DOTA thread as well.

People were like... "B-b-but it's more depth!"/"Learning curve!"
And I was, "Nah bros, it's bad design.

I delight in my own awesomeness. Most gamers are terrible at game design.

Prove my ideas right, Blizzard.

[Kuntantee]

I doubt this will dethrone DotA be it 1 or 2 with the amount of casualness in game. I would prefer a hard-to-learn, hard-to-master game and guys DotA 2 is not over yet and I bet there will be different maps.

[Fencers]

I doubt DOTA2 will dethrone League in popularity. DOTA2 is fantastic, it's not a broadly appealing game or quite as expertly crafted.

[Nerraw]

That's never going to happen =p
We all wish the community was better but this is just how it is. And every time someone is a jerk to someone else, that person starts being a jerk to other people.

Haha, probably not.

This seems to be a side-effect of video games in general. It's not like people are horribly rude in MMOs like WoW, or FPS games, or other RTS genres like SC. Pretty much anywhere you hide on the internet jerks will find you, that's why the ignore list was created in DotA2. I have so many people ignored at this point that I go into games with people already on ignore more often than not.

@shalnath
That's obvious, look at LoL. Some millions of players and I haven't met a single person who has given both LoL and DotA2 a SERIOUS try and stuck with LoL. Even the people who are very, very bad at it (dota). Small world I guess, but being popular doesn't really have anything to do with this. I'm not trying to say blizzdota won't be successful, it's a blizzard game and so I'm sure it will be, enormously. It doesn't look interesting to me, though, and it probably won't affect the DotA community much at all.

Personally I think it's great they're doing something else with the genre. What we have so far is pretty similar.

[Dexiefy]

umm most of blizz changes seem to be directed at noskill community that cant handle basic principals of Dota, or MOBA if you will (even tough that name is just fucked up)
Basically what it appeares that they are doing is to make the game retard friendly, so everyone, no matter how bad they are, can feel acomplished and so that the game can cover their lack of skill. Which is bad approach (to say the least) in genre that is about competition and winning team being the one that is more skilled...

[moguri]

So maybe it won't be the ultimate test of skill... but that doesn't stop League from being insanely popular and HoN falling into oblivion. I don't think there's anyone out there who would say LoL took more still than HoN, but that doesn't mean people will want to play your game. A lot of people play games for fun so the idea that you can play a game similar to League/HoN/DOTA but playing Lich King, Kerrigan, Thrall, etc. instead just fucking around casually is appealing. Nobody is saying this is the new E-Sport game of choice... we're just hoping it'll be a somewhat fun game.

[Wynnyelle]

Sounds overly simplified. I don't like the sound of it so far, and I probably won't play it. I'm sure it'll appeal to plenty of people and it will be successful as all Blizzard games are, but I'll just stick to Dota 2.

[PizzaSHARK]

I doubt DOTA2 will dethrone League in popularity. DOTA2 is fantastic, it's not a broadly appealing game or quite as expertly crafted.

Calling League of Legends "expertly crafted," is pretty hilarious. You're basically comparing Bud Light to Sam Adams and saying Bud Light is better because it's more popular.

Sure, it has larger market penetration and higher sales, but there isn't a single person out there that has an opinion worth listening to that will tell you they'd prefer a Bud Light to a Sam Adams.

[Lysah]

As far as pleasing the crowd goes, I would say LoL is expertly crafted. They've sure taken money generation to the next generation.

I mean, compare their business model to that of say, EA.

If we're just talking about success, then the more popular item IS the better made one, for whatever reason it may be.

[shalnath]

I think I'm going to give this broad, sweeping generalization shit a try.

Calling League of Legends "expertly crafted," is pretty hilarious. You're basically comparing Bud Light to Sam Adams and saying Bud Light is better because it's more popular.

Sure, it has larger market penetration and higher sales, but there isn't a single person out there that has an opinion worth listening to that will tell you they'd prefer a Bud Light to a Sam Adams.

Sir, your username is retarded. Therefore, you are inferior to me in every way and your opinion is wrong. Not only that, but you are exceptionally bad at every game I like that you don't. Thanks and have a nice day.

How's that? Definitely made me feel better about myself!

[Fencers]

Calling League of Legends "expertly crafted," is pretty hilarious. You're basically comparing Bud Light to Sam Adams and saying Bud Light is better because it's more popular.

I wasn't calling League expertly crafted. I was hinting at the possibility of a future game designed in the genre away from the clunky design that came attached to it. Specifically, the mess that is DOTA1/2.

[Lysah]

I wasn't calling League expertly crafted. I was hinting at the possibility of a future game designed in the genre away from the clunky design that came attached to it. Specifically, the mess that is DOTA1/2.

What do you find clunky about it? Is it because the heroes have turn speeds and cast timers?