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  1. #1

    Those damn double standards...

    Syria's fragile peace process is in shreds after what was claimed to be a regime-backed massacre left 32 children among more than 90 dead and triggered a wave of international revulsion.
    The siege ended 50 days later when a fire destroyed the compound when a second assault was launched. 75 people died in the fire, including more than 20 children, two pregnant women, and the sect leader David Koresh.
    I'd go into the similar Israeli massacres, but my fingers would cramp.

    I guess they're only massacres when it's not you or your allies. It's only revolting when your enemies mimic you?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer LocNess's Avatar
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    If you ever bring in two quotes, source what you linked. Big difference of CNN, Fox, Yahoo, or BBC, etc. etc.

    And I am just judging by what these single sentences say, but the first is clearly saying to me that 32 kids were killed by people. The second one they were killed by fire. Fire doesn't massacre things. And Koresh's camp wasn't a major revolution, it was just a stand off IIRC.

    Am I missing something here? Just woke up so if I am feel free to point it out.
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  3. #3
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    I'm not even sure what the topic is.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm not even sure what the topic is.
    He's upset that the Syrian government is getting bad press for killing civilians and comparing that to the Waco, TX incident.

  5. #5
    When will this be closed?
    "LET TERROR RAIN!!!" ~ Warcraft III

  6. #6
    I think the main difference, if I recall the Waco incident correctly anyway, is that the cultists in the Waco incident started the fire, not the assault squad. Or they had at least set it up so the fire would easily be started by the assault team as they breached the building. Either way, the assault team didn't go in with the intent to light the place on fire and kill those people.

    All (current) evidence seems to point to the Syrian massacre of those people was fully intended.

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  7. #7
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    I think the main difference, if I recall the Waco incident correctly anyway, is that the cultists in the Waco incident started the fire, not the assault squad. Or they had at least set it up so the fire would easily be started by the assault team as they breached the building. Either way, the assault team didn't go in with the intent to light the place on fire and kill those people.

    All (current) evidence seems to point to the Syrian massacre of those people was fully intended.

    The controversy surrounding the WACO incident was that fact that many of the people who got out, claimed that the women and children TRIED to leave but were shot at by the ATF and forced back into a burning building.

    Koresh was a nutjob, he had his men set up a fire trap, then armed them all with military grade equipment and announced that the government would be along soon enough to slaughter them all. Sure enough, true to form the ATF showed up with tanks and machine guns and did just that.

    Let the lesson be learned, don't you dare collect a stockpile of weapons without makin sure the government has their hand in it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    The controversy surrounding the WACO incident was that fact that many of the people who got out, claimed that the women and children TRIED to leave but were shot at by the ATF and forced back into a burning building.

    Koresh was a nutjob, he had his men set up a fire trap, then armed them all with military grade equipment and announced that the government would be along soon enough to slaughter them all. Sure enough, true to form the ATF showed up with tanks and machine guns and did just that.

    Let the lesson be learned, don't you dare collect a stockpile of weapons without makin sure the government has their hand in it too.
    I really don't believe the ATF fired at the women and children as they tried to leave, considering the 19 children they escorted off the premises earlier in the siege, or the fact that in the released video the Davidians made during the siege those women and children made clear their intent to stick with Koresh "to the end."

    Also, the ATF didn't show up with tanks. They showed up with a breach team prepared to go up against people armed with military grade weapons. 5 of them died on day one. After their deaths, non-artillery tanks and CEVs were brought in.

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  9. #9
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    I really don't believe the ATF fired at the women and children as they tried to leave, considering the 19 children they escorted off the premises earlier in the siege, or the fact that in the released video the Davidians made during the siege those women and children made clear their intent to stick with Koresh "to the end."

    Also, the ATF didn't show up with tanks. They showed up with a breach team prepared to go up against people armed with military grade weapons. 5 of them died on day one. After their deaths, non-artillery tanks and CEVs were brought in.
    Right but why did the ATF show up at all?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Right but why did the ATF show up at all?
    Because those people were breaking the law. The ATF is alcohol, tobbaco, and FIREARMS, and they were clearly violating firearms laws.

  11. #11
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiddly View Post
    Because those people were breaking the law. The ATF is alcohol, tobbaco, and FIREARMS, and they were clearly violating firearms laws.
    O rly? You are aware that you can legally own just about anything in the Us right? You just need the right permits. You know what a permit is? Its a tax. The ATF showed up because the Davidians owed tax money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    O rly? You are aware that you can legally own just about anything in the Us right? You just need the right permits. You know what a permit is? Its a tax. The ATF showed up because the Davidians owed tax money.
    Incorrect. Civilians are not allowed to own machine guns or live hand grenades. The ATF was presented with evidence that strongly suggested that the Davidians were cobbling together machine guns and hand grenades.

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    O rly? You are aware that you can legally own just about anything in the Us right? You just need the right permits. You know what a permit is? Its a tax. The ATF showed up because the Davidians owed tax money.
    Right. And without paying those "taxes" (and registering their firearms) they were in violation of established firearms laws. Making it illegal.

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Incorrect. Civilians are not allowed to own machine guns or live hand grenades. The ATF was presented with evidence that strongly suggested that the Davidians were cobbling together machine guns and hand grenades.
    http://www.ffl123.com/

    try again
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Which those people did not have

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
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    Hey, just as long as your OK with tax collectors using deadly force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  17. #17
    The biggest problem for the people of Syria - they aren't sitting on enough oil reserves to get the west excited.
    "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it" - George Orwell

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Hey, just as long as your OK with tax collectors using deadly force.
    They killed five officers, didn't they? I have not even thought about waco in years. If you shoot five cops, guess what? They are going to use deadly force back!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    You can own full auto weapons, but not machine guns. Full machine guns are a separate thing from full auto.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATF FAQ about machine guns
    However, under 27 CFR 479.105(d), a machinegun made or imported on or after May 19, 1986, may only be transferred to the U.S. Government (USG) or a law enforcement agency, or to a Federal firearms licensee for use as a USG or law enforcement sales sample. The transfer of a post-1986 machinegun between licensed manufacturers solely for the performance of a manufacturing sub-process in furtherance of finishing the product, without meeting the requirements of 27 CFR 479.105(d), is not permissible.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Hey, just as long as your OK with tax collectors using deadly force.
    If I pointed a gun at an IRS agent, I would fully support his right to use deadly force.

    What is wrong with you?

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