Why Dota 2 is going to be bad.

[Kurdiern]

Oh hey, you're back. You still haven't responded to our last thread, where you turned tail and ran.

Try not to take this guy too seriously people, he enjoys trying to seem rebel.

[sixx]

tl;dr

Seriously, lets keep playing LoL for now, is really fun the way it is and looking foward to Blizzard Dota, they say they'll have new stuff.

[JimPaladin]

Teams do pick him like Na'vi for example when they want to troll at the selection screen. I feel the same way when pro teams pick weaver but to each his own. They all have their strengths and late game weaknesses.

Axe has absolutely no real early, mid or late game. All you can do in a pub is max Battle Hunger and hope you get people who don't last hit (which is more or less going to happen. I've had many games where I easily went 20+ kills with Axe just from BH spamming people who backed off and didn't try getting rid of it quickly) in a competitive game all he can do, if he's laning, (and considering Jungle Axe just makes you that much more useless to your team, you SHOULD be laning if you ever play Axe) all you can do is abuse your taunt and counter helix with a strong lane partner. With a carry like Juggernaut or a support like Lich Axe CAN have a decent early game- but the fact is if he wasn't so poorly designed, he'd have a much better early, mid and late game.

Oh hey, you're back. You still haven't responded to our last thread, where you turned tail and ran.

Try not to take this guy too seriously people, he enjoys trying to seem rebel.

i too like to pretend i mean something and have a face and voice

---------- Post added 2012-05-24 at 08:35 AM ----------

Adding to my last post about Axe-

Even if you have a decent early game, unless you get straight up fed like crazy you will do absolutely nothing after about 30 minutes in. You will ONLY be good because of your taunt, and it has such a tiny range that it's almost not worth it. Tidehunter, Tiny, Slardar, Earthshaker... these are just some heroes right off the top of my head that have better CCs than Axe while iniating just as well or better. Pudge also falls off the meter as far as late game damage goes, but at least he still as the incredibl powers of his hook that make him incredibly useful in many, many different ways even 60+ minutes in when he's doing almost no damage.

---------- Post added 2012-05-24 at 08:36 AM ----------

Adding to my last post about Axe-

Even if you have a decent early game, unless you get straight up fed like crazy you will do absolutely nothing after about 30 minutes in. You will ONLY be good because of your taunt, and it has such a tiny range that it's almost not worth it. Tidehunter, Tiny, Slardar, Earthshaker... these are just some heroes right off the top of my head that have better CCs than Axe while iniating just as well or better. Pudge also falls off the meter as far as late game damage goes, but at least he still as the awesome powers of his hook that make him incredibly useful in many, many different ways even 60+ minutes in when he's doing almost no damage.

[Kurdiern]

i too like to pretend i mean something and have a face and voice

i too like to directly avoid and refuse to acknowledge that my opinion might not actually be fact and that I, in fact, are just a bigoted asshole.

Seriously, you're a joke. It'll only take a few more posts for people to realize just how bad you are.

MissPudding being hired because she has a "pretty face and a vagina" for Community Coordinator, where she oversees it all ONLINE. Not because she actually had a previous job at S2 that was similar to this & the fact she fulfills all credentials BETTER than you or I.

Calling me names and resorting to shouting loudly and claiming the links I posted were wrong, despite the fact I even bothered to explain their credibility to you AS WELL as finding another source from Kotaku for you. Sorry, you're wrong. This seems impossible for you to accept though.

Telling me that, even after I linked specific examples and occurrences, that I was wrong and that "I know all of this, but I don't want to look it up or post any links." Then telling me I don't have sources even though you refused to even post a single link. My favorites were when you would say "I haven't actually watched...this is my opinion" but then finishing the paragraph with "FACT, YOU CAN'T DENY THIS."

Saying that Riot is directly copy and pasting from Blizzard, even though multiple people pointed out that, for example, Mad Scientist is a well established stock character and that Putricide & Mad Chemist Singed are not copy paste.

I could go on, but you get the point. Wonder if a reply on that other thread will ever come...

[JimPaladin]

i too like to directly avoid and refuse to acknowledge that my opinion might not actually be fact and that I, in fact, are just a bigoted asshole.

Seriously, you're a joke. It'll only take a few more posts for people to realize just how bad you are.

MissPudding being hired because she has a "pretty face and a vagina" for Community Coordinator, where she oversees it all ONLINE. Not because she actually had a previous job at S2 that was similar to this & the fact she fulfills all credentials BETTER than you or I.

Calling me names and resorting to shouting loudly and claiming the links I posted were wrong, despite the fact I even bothered to explain their credibility to you AS WELL as finding another source from Kotaku for you. Sorry, you're wrong. This seems impossible for you to accept though.

Telling me that, even after I linked specific examples and occurrences, that I was wrong and that "I know all of this, but I don't want to look it up or post any links." Then telling me I don't have sources even though you refused to even post a single link. My favorites were when you would say "I haven't actually watched...this is my opinion" but then finishing the paragraph with "FACT, YOU CAN'T DENY THIS."

Saying that Riot is directly copy and pasting from Blizzard, even though multiple people pointed out that, for example, Mad Scientist is a well established stock character and that Putricide & Mad Chemist Singed are not copy paste.

I could go on, but you get the point. Wonder if a reply on that other thread will ever come...

No a post wont come because all your posts were bad and so is this one. The argument was going nowhere, and I didn't mean it to go anywhere to begin with.

Please refrain from bringing up anything from that thread. That has nothing to do with this thread or what anyone is talking about and you are derailing the discussions going on here (which, ignoring all the stupid posts, is actually going pretty well between us). You only further prove how hurt and upset you were over an argument I didn't even care about. Please drop it, or take it back to that original thread or I will report you for derailing/whatever.

[Deleted]

I do respect your opinion OP, but complaining to masses who cant do anything about it is redundant.
I'd like to suggest; send your opinions to Valve that you disagree with how they are developing the game.
None here probably cares enough to riot against it with you, nor does peoples forum post matter.

I did however read your whole post, and I hope they are not leaving the state of beta into the finished game.

[JimPaladin]

I know my opinions wont change anything, because Valve doesn't care either way, and I'm only posting them here because I have no other forums to post it on. It wasn't meant for the people of this forum, really. More for specific people I wanted to show it to, I just decided to 'host' it here, for better or worse (it is ALWAYS 'for worse' on this site.)

But, yeah. Valve is basically making Dota HD and not Dota 2.

[Kurdiern]

No a post wont come because all your posts were bad and so is this one. The argument was going nowhere, and I didn't mean it to go anywhere to begin with.

Please refrain from bringing up anything from that thread. That has nothing to do with this thread or what anyone is talking about and you are derailing the discussions going on here (which, ignoring all the stupid posts, is actually going pretty well between us). You only further prove how hurt and upset you were over an argument I didn't even care about. Please drop it, or take it back to that original thread or I will report you for derailing/whatever.

"Your post is bad because it's bad and stuff. I won't actually address it (yet again), I'll just call it bad and nod my head like I'm actually saying something worthwhile. Instead of addressing my previous faults and realizing I have biased opinions and an incredibly stubborn personality that doesn't allow my opinion to budge an inch, I want you to please leave because you're threatening my little personal bubble where I always feel correct. This isn't supposed to be a discussion, it's other people beating their heads against the wall that is my head."

Translated. I'll never understand why someone makes a post if they aren't willing to accept new information and change their viewpoint, but I guess you need to feel like your thoughts are validated somewhere. It's as if you enjoy walking into McDonalds and then telling the manager why a Whopper is so much better than a Big Mac. Your post isn't worth addressing and dismantling like last time anyway.

Cheers.

Example below.

[JimPaladin]

"Your post is bad because it's bad and stuff. I won't actually address it (yet again), I'll just call it bad and nod my head like I'm actually saying something worthwhile. Instead of addressing my previous faults and realizing I have biased opinions and an incredibly stubborn personality that doesn't allow my opinion to budge an inch, I want you to please leave because you're threatening my little personal bubble where I always feel correct. This isn't supposed to be a discussion, it's other people beating their heads against the wall that is my head."

Translated. I'll never understand why someone makes a post if they aren't willing to accept new information and change their viewpoint, but I guess you need to feel like your thoughts are validated somewhere. It's as if you enjoy walking into McDonalds and then telling the manager why a Whopper is so much better than a Big Mac. Your post isn't worth addressing and dismantling like last time anyway.

Cheers.

your anger and frustration nourishes me

---------- Post added 2012-05-24 at 08:59 AM ----------

To add to my last, actual, post concerning 'Dota HD'-

I guess it boils down to whether or not you want it to be a sequel or a remake or not. Me? I want a sequel because- despite what your personal opinions may be- you can't legitimately argue that Dota's heroes are all really well made and that they're all viable picks with good skillsets because they're fucking not.

If you think it's fine how it is, that's your own opinion, but it has flaws you can't ignore either way.

[Deleted]

You didn't write anything which seems to have a point, at half i stopped reading your post.Go and play hon if u like nobody cares seriously, whine posts like these have no point.Not to forget you need to chill out bro and yes dota 2 is dota hd because it is DOTA.

[JimPaladin]

You didn't write anything which seems to have a point, at half i stopped reading your post.Go and play hon if u like nobody cares seriously, whine posts like these have no point.Not to forget you need to chill out bro and yes dota 2 is dota hd because it is DOTA.

10/10 post thanks for your contribution

[loki504]

Oh hey, you're back. You still haven't responded to our last thread, where you turned tail and ran.

Try not to take this guy too seriously people, he enjoys trying to seem rebel.

then maybe the mods should give him a ban. and if he doesn't learn well then perma ip ban him.
trying to get people angry so they get a ban is not funny. i really think the mods need to start ip banning perma trolls

[JimPaladin]

then maybe the mods should give him a ban. and if he doesn't learn well then perma ip ban him.
trying to get people angry so they get a ban is not funny. i really think the mods need to start ip banning perma trolls

Okay this one is just the worst yet. I can't even joke about it.

Are you seriously trying to say someone can't say they don't like something because they're probably "only trying to get people mad so they will get banned"? I'm not even sure if that's what you're trying to say because whatever you said hardly qualifies as even broken English.

[Deleted]

Are you implying they're not? What is your counter argument for this? Do you even have one?

Battle hunger is only good for pubstomping because no one knows how to last hit. In a 'competitive' game there's only small, choice times it's useful. Yes it's good for chasing people down- infact, for that it's fucking amazing- but outside that it could really be a better skill that fits in with his taunt and counter helix.

Wrong.
Battle hunger can give you lane dominance if you cast it at the right time and on the right hero, because you simply can't always last hit something. If it wasn't for the last hit part of battle hunger the spell would be terribly OP:

• 600+ dmg dot
• 105 mana
• 5 sec cd
• 10% slow
• 4% stacking ms buff for axe
• cannot be denied

Seriously compare it to other dot spells and you'll realise this spell is great if you use it correctly. Obviously it's wasted mana if the enemy last hits something so use it smart. Later in the game when you gank someone they'll rarely have the time to stop and last hit a creep, same for team fights. Great spell really and it has synergy with his other spells because one of axe's problems is getting to the enemy for call/helix/ulti. People used to build dagger very early for him but since the change most people go mana reg and then just spam battle hunger which slows the enemy and makes you faster so you get to them this way.

As far as Culling Blade goes, it's just a killsteal ultimate. Nothing more. I don't even know why you'd argue this because it's widely fucking known that's all it's for. In a 1v1 situation where you're both low it CAN be useful to kill the person before they kill you, but that's only going to happen under VERY SPECIFIC CONDITIONS that would be pointless to put into hypothetical perspective because they're almost never going to actually happen.

But I'm sure you have such good reasons why Culling Blade fits in so perfectly with Axe's skillset and why it isn't just a killsteal ult. Go ahead, let's hear them.

Oh wow this is bad. Seriously even a new player in dota will realise fast that this ulti is not made only to troll your teammates. Axe ulti is such a great spell because it does a lot of single target dmg through literally any protection. If your target is below the hp mark then all the buffs get removed (magic immuntiy, shadow priest grave thingy, omni's stuff) and the target will die no matter what. Seriously you took the wrong hero to QQ about because axe is the manliest hero in the game.

[Deleted]

Axe is a very strong hero, as the last poster has gone into detail over his skills i wont repeat what he has already said, however i will say that you claim that axe is a terrible early game hero? You say going to woods is a waste. Axe works get as a early wooder with ganks as part of a top or bottom tri lane, when 3 heros jump some1 at a lane early game and BH is cast on them, they dont have time to " last hit " so have to run and if the 3 heros dont manage to get the hero down the chance of BH finishing them off with its insane dmg is very likely.

And late game axe is a great initiator, blink in taunt, lock them down, sure you might die but by god you will take 1 of them out and if you did a good intiate have locked a couple down all together for your team to lay waste to.

You seem to think that just because axe is likely to die that makes him a shitty hero, his ulti is great as it goes through lots of "life saving" spells and also proves a buff to every1 around with speed when it does kill which allows people to either escape of get onto the next target even quicker.

On that note im going to do play axe in dota 2 have fun all !

[JimPaladin]

First of all, Battle Hunger is only something like 350 damage at level 4 (Something like that. It's not anywhere near 600, let alone 600+). The mana cost is also pretty high unless you build some mana items, which isn't totally uncalled for if you want to spam like a crazy idiot. The 10% slow and the 4% movespeed make it, like I said, a good tool for chasing people down when they can't last hit something- but it could still be something much, much better and synergistic with his skillset.

While Battle Hunger can't be dispelled, it- unlike other DoTs- does not remove potions or urns. You can easily heal through it until a last hit can be made on something. Culling Blade IS useful for countering Dazzle, but then again so is just CCing the target until the shallow grave wears off. The CC also doubles as a, well, you know. A stun and CC. Meaning it's not just for Killstealing or finishing a Shallow Graved person off, but for finishing a Shallow Graved person off AND CCing people. Culling Blade's only real edge is it will go through BKB, but mid to late game if the person is BKB'd and low enough to be killed by Culling blade (Culling blade's normal, non-kill damage isn't very good, either) then they can just be killed by melee attacks and Culling Blade isn't necessary. Blink Dagger is also still a huge staple on Axe, I dunno where you're getting this "used to" stuff from.

Did I EVER claim Axe was 100% useless in all situations? I did not. I did, however, say that only under specific setups *You yourself have even agreed with this in your post* is his early game decent. Late game he's nothing but a tank, and because his taunt isn't that good and falls flat against the AoEs of other iniators, he's not a very viable pick for competitive gameplay which is why you, uh, you know. Don't fucking see him in top games and stuff. But I guess all those stupid 'pro players' just don't see how good Axe really is like YOU do!

You seem to think that just because axe is likely to die that makes him a shitty hero, his ulti is great as it goes through lots of "life saving" spells and also proves a buff to every1 around with speed when it does kill which allows people to either escape of get onto the next target even quicker.

No. No I do not. Nothing I ever said even fucking insinuated I said that. Did you read what I wrote? Doubtful. I also didn't say he had a terrible early game if given a specific setup. Axe can, at worst, taunt ONE person and at best get lucky if people bunch up and taunt 3-4 or so- which is not going to happen very often, especially in higher-tier matches. Almost every other iniator outdoes Axe and makes him a very unviable late-game pick. You can't just look at Axe himself and say "Yeah he seems good". There's a grand scheme of things, and a lot of other heroes. They all have to be considered to properly evaluate how Axe can preform.

It's like with cars or something. You don't just say "Oh this car runs fast so it's good" when another car totally outperforms it. Is your car good because it's fast? Sure, it has it's qualities, but compared to the other car it's not very good.

[Deleted]

First of all, Battle Hunger is only something like 350 damage at level 4 (Something like that. It's not anywhere near 600, let alone 600+). T

33 dps * 19 seconds duration = 627 damage

While Battle Hunger can't be dispelled, it- unlike other DoTs- does not remove potions or urns. You can easily heal through it until a last hit can be made on something.

It can be dispelled (e.g. with diffu) but the hero who has Battle Hunger can't be denied, you don't even know what you are talking about. Also I am not 100% sure but I think the rest is BS too. Any damage higher than 20 will cancel a salve, clarity, etc unless HP removal dmg and Battle Hunger does magic dmg in ticks of 33(?).

[Deleted]

First of all, Battle Hunger is only something like 350 damage at level 4 (Something like that. It's not anywhere near 600, let alone 600+). The mana cost is also pretty high unless you build some mana items, which isn't totally uncalled for if you want to spam like a crazy idiot. The 10% slow and the 4% movespeed make it, like I said, a good tool for chasing people down when they can't last hit something- but it could still be something much, much better and synergistic with his skillset.

While Battle Hunger can't be dispelled, it- unlike other DoTs- does not remove potions or urns. You can easily heal through it until a last hit can be made on something. Culling Blade IS useful for countering Dazzle, but then again so is just CCing the target until the shallow grave wears off. The CC also doubles as a, well, you know. A stun and CC. Meaning it's not just for Killstealing or finishing a Shallow Graved person off, but for finishing a Shallow Graved person off AND CCing people. Culling Blade's only real edge is it will go through BKB, but mid to late game if the person is BKB'd and low enough to be killed by Culling blade (Culling blade's normal, non-kill damage isn't very good, either) then they can just be killed by melee attacks and Culling Blade isn't necessary. Blink Dagger is also still a huge staple on Axe, I dunno where you're getting this "used to" stuff from.

Did I EVER claim Axe was 100% useless in all situations? I did not. I did, however, say that only under specific setups *You yourself have even agreed with this in your post* is his early game decent. Late game he's nothing but a tank, and because his taunt isn't that good and falls flat against the AoEs of other iniators, he's not a very viable pick for competitive gameplay which is why you, uh, you know. Don't fucking see him in top games and stuff. But I guess all those stupid 'pro players' just don't see how good Axe really is like YOU do!

Every hero can be "useless" under specific set-ups. You're pretty much QQ-ing that he can be countered. "I can't stomp everyone with my favorite hero during the entire game, waaah". Woop-de-do.

[JimPaladin]

You can't even hero deny in Dota 2 except with a small handful of abilities so why even say "you can't deny the kill" as some pro for Battle Hunger?

I was wrong about the Battle Hunger damage thing though, that was my bad. But the damage only does that much if it's allowed to tick over the nearly 20 second duration. Also, diffusal blade- a single item out of just a very few things in the entire game- can dispell it and I didn't mention that whoa, clearly I know nothing at all why am I even arguing with you!!!!!!!!!!

And while you can get poopy if you want, it doesn't change the fact Battle Hunger DOES NOT remove potions or Urns. They are actually a pretty effective counter to it.

Every hero can be "useless" under specific set-ups. You're pretty much QQ-ing that he can be countered. "I can't stomp everyone with my favorite hero during the entire game, waaah". Woop-de-do.

How do people even get like you jesus I swear.

Okay. I'll humor you.

Yes, every hero can be countered. This is true. The problem with Axe is he can be countered too well and, as far as iniators go, he's not a very good one compared to any others. Even a Huskar with BKB is a better fucking iniator than Axe. But you're not providing anything even somewhat on the level of intelligent discussion so why am I stooping so low as to actually respond to you?

[Deleted]

You can't even hero deny in Dota 2 except with a small handful of abilities so why even say "you can't deny the kill" as some pro for Battle Hunger?

Because you usually can deny allied heroes if they are below 25% hp and have a dot on them (Shadow Strike, Shadow Word, Venomous Gale, Viper Strike, Doom) and there are only few exceptions to that Battle Hunger and Maledict being the two I can remember right now.