Lose a buff when you change talents? Why?!

[Bizarro55]

And those other purposes are?

To stick with one build.

[Deleted]

To stick with one build.

Like I said, that makes no sense at all. They added and gave us all these options and choices and then want to discourage us from using them?

[Matchu]

Like I said, that makes no sense at all. They added and gave us all these options and choices and then want to discourage us from using them?

They want you to experiment and find a build that suits your playstyle, which is why it doesn't kick in until 60. What they don't want is people spotting an elite pack, redoing their entire build, killing, swapping it back, spotting another pack, changing it to something else, killing, redoing. It's dull to spend a large amount of the time just swapping builds because you feel that's what you "have" to do. With the buff, it takes that illusion away from you.

There's also the point that swapping on the fly perhaps trivialises the content.

[Deleted]

They want you to experiment and find a build that suits your playstyle, which is why it doesn't kick in until 60. What they don't want is people spotting an elite pack, redoing their entire build, killing, swapping it back, spotting another pack, changing it to something else, killing, redoing. It's dull to spend a large amount of the time just swapping builds because you feel that's what you "have" to do. With the buff, it takes that illusion away from you.

There's also the point that swapping on the fly perhaps trivialises the content.

Thats why the amount of specs should be limited but it does not necessarily have to be only one. 2 specs, 1 for boss and 1 for rest would be more fair in my opinion. And it would not trivialise trash completely

[Deleted]

Like I said, that makes no sense at all. They added and gave us all these options and choices and then want to discourage us from using them?

No? They don't want you to switch skills for different types of affixes/bosses because that kind of defeats the purpose of Inferno. The real challenge is finding a build that will allow you to kill all champion/rare packs as well as bosses.

Besides, you have 60 levels to experiment with different skills and builds and if you're even going to manage to reach a boss in Inferno with 5 stacks of NV you need to have optimised your build already.

[moff]

you can change specs and be creative when you log in. because the buff also disappears when you log out or change acts. so the argument "you cant be creative" is not valid in any way. the nephalem buff - aside from blizzard wanting is to defeat elite packs instead just baal runs for 10 years - is supposed to make it a bit more challenging and actually make use of the skill system. whats the use of the 6 skill limitation if you can change them any time given? they might just as well provide 20 hotkeys.
but you are supposed to use only 6. and 6 for everything and not 6 for trash, another 6 for elites and another 6 for bosses. otherwise the skill system would totally idiotic.

[Caiada]

Like I said, that makes no sense at all. They added and gave us all these options and choices and then want to discourage us from using them?

No, they want you to find the best one to keep the MF buff the longest.

If it was a buff necessary to survive in Inferno, you might have a point, but it isn't. It's just MF. It rewards you for finding universal builds or for making something less obvious work in a lot of situations.

[Deleted]

you can change specs and be creative when you log in. because the buff also disappears when you log out or change acts. so the argument "you cant be creative" is not valid in any way. the nephalem buff - aside from blizzard wanting is to defeat elite packs instead just baal runs for 10 years - is supposed to make it a bit more challenging and actually make use of the skill system. whats the use of the 6 skill limitation if you can change them any time given? they might just as well provide 20 hotkeys.
but you are supposed to use only 6. and 6 for everything and not 6 for trash, another 6 for elites and another 6 for bosses. otherwise the skill system would totally idiotic.

Why would a different spec for boss and a different spec for trash be idiotic? I agree that completely free switching all the time would be idiotic but bosses and elites just require different strategies. i could call it idiotic that you have to use the same spec for both but it would not really be a useful contribution.

[lightofdawn]

it's to encourage individuality between players, if you have a cookiecutter spec (which isnt really possible in D3 seeing as everyone plays differently) the game becomes boring and a grind, if you have ur own spec that not many other people have it's more of a bragging right to say you killed something that someone else didnt

case in point: my friend died to rakanoth (hell) like 20 times using elemental arrow-frost...i beat him second attempt using elemental arrow-nether tentacles
afterwards- i brag

[Riptide]

The buff is there to reward good builds and to encourage killing elites as well as bosses. If you do not have a good enough build capable of clearing whatever elites and bosses you go up against, that's your own fault and you don't deserve the buff.

I group with every class, every day and while they have similar builds amongst the same classes there is definitely more than 1 viable build per class. Also, if they decide they don't like their build, with our current group set up, they change it for the next run and actually stick with the build for the whole run. I mean how is that a bad thing?

Sure, there are plenty of times something would be easier if I had X, Y or Z instead of A, B, or C. But your build should be tailored for the boss you're clearing to and the variety of elites you'll run into on the way there.

[Dhrizzle]

Blizzard decided that choosing a flexible build to fit your play-style was more fun and interesting than cherry-picking specific skills to excel at one mob-type. It's to do with pacing - stopping after every fight to prepare for the next fight slows down the game-play, particularly annoying if you're in a group.

You can still specialise for every fight if you like, but doing so makes the game easier as Blizzard expect you to be using a flexible build. So you get additional rewards for playing the more difficult way.

TL~DR Nephalem Valour is a reward for using a flexible build, not a punishment for switching.

[Lathais]

It's basically your spec, it's a way to make you think and challenge you with limited options. If you want to try different things, go ahead, but if you wanna get the buff up and get good loot you need to accept the challenge of finding a decent all around build and going with it. If you could frely change it would be way too easy.

[Deleted]

They want you to experiment and find a build that suits your playstyle, which is why it doesn't kick in until 60. What they don't want is people spotting an elite pack, redoing their entire build, killing, swapping it back, spotting another pack, changing it to something else, killing, redoing. It's dull to spend a large amount of the time just swapping builds.

Well if it's dull switching your build around, no one forces you to do it. Yes, you might get bored of changing specs all the time but like someone already said, you don't have to if you don't want to. But if you want to, it should be a player's choice to make. Seems self-defeating to discourage players from being effective, particularly in the light of just how hard Inferno really is. Kinda like making playing chess harder while purposefully lacking a full set of pieces. Makes you wonder why we have so many specific tools, for specific purposes, if the message is that we're suppose to find an all-purpose build.

Just silly imo.

And btw, you could easily make changing builds "less dull" by implementing some sort of build repository. So that you could switch between them simply by selecting the one you want from a list.

No? They don't want you to switch skills for different types of affixes/bosses because that kind of defeats the purpose of Inferno.

I read this and just though "huh?"

It defeats the purpose of Inferno if you optimize your build to deal with your opponent and instead you should face mobs with a build that is potentially just god-awful against them? That's even worse because you're artificially raising the difficulty by taking away the tools you gave them. That's simply just bad design.

[matters]

It would seem as though Blizzard never does anything right by the amount of complaint posts made by players of ALL their games, sheesh. Diablo 3 is at is core a gear grinding game. You level your character to 60 (while all along grinding to get better gear so you can kill stuff faster or more efficiently) then you are supposed to play the game on Inferno difficulty (which is meant to be very difficult of course) in order to, guess what, GRIND GEAR. The stacking buff that you get from killing champion/elite packs is just a perk, and like another person above me posted you did level to 60 so you should have some sort of an idea of what specs work best for what situations.

Either way there are going to be complaints about this, i will admit that at first i was pretty pissed off that the stacks drop when i want to switch my spec but then realized that the buff did not have to be included at all and is only there as a perk.

[Caiada]

Well if it's dull switching your build around, no one forces you to do it. Yes, you might get bored of changing specs all the time but like someone already said, you don't have to if you don't want to. But if you want to, it should be a player's choice to make. Seems self-defeating to discourage players from being effective, particularly in the light of just how hard Inferno really is. Kinda like making playing chess harder while purposefully lacking a full set of pieces. Makes you wonder why we have so many specific tools, for specific purposes, if the message is that we're suppose to find an all-purpose build.

Just silly imo.

And btw, you could easily make changing builds "less dull" by implementing some sort of build repository. So that you could switch between them simply by selecting the one you want from a list.


I read this and just though "huh?"

It defeats the purpose of Inferno if you optimize your build to deal with your opponent and instead you should face mobs with a build that is potentially just god-awful against them? That's even worse because you're artificially raising the difficulty by taking away the tools you gave them. That's simply just bad design.

Again, an MF buff isn't mandatory. If you feel you have to switch, you should switch. But if you find a build that works in multiple situations, or you make a non-optimal build work in multiple solutions, you get a reward. How the hell is that bad game design?

[Deleted]

Again, an MF buff isn't mandatory. If you feel you have to switch, you should switch. But if you find a build that works in multiple situations, or you make a non-optimal build work in multiple solutions, you get a reward. How the hell is that bad game design?

Because it limits the player for good reason?

Besides, when facing the gear grind in this game, you reeeeally do want to get that buff.

[Caiada]

Because it limits the player for good reason?

Besides, when facing the gear grind in this game, you reeeeally do want to get that buff.

Constraints aren't bad game design and don't limit creativity.

[Deleted]

Constraints aren't bad game design and don't limit creativity.

In mild stages no, but difficulty in video games is often achieved with excessive constraints, such as in this case.

[Caiada]

In mild stages no, but difficulty in video games is often achieved with excessive constraints, such as in this case.

Difficulty farming, I guess. The MF buff is irrelevant to the game's actual difficulty. They're also not excessive. Plenty of people are killing bosses with five stacks of NV fairly often. I'm seeing no evidence that they're excessive other than that some people think they should tailor their builds to every encounter. I'm seeing tons of evidence that not only is that not necessary, it would actually be detrimental to the experience and completely ruin the point of NV.

[Deleted]

I'm seeing tons of evidence that not only is that not necessary, it would actually be detrimental to the experience and completely ruin the point of NV.

Feel free to elaborate.