Lose a buff when you change talents? Why?!

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Ohh dear... this part made me laugh so hard. Yeah... gee wiz, to think that you would be allowed to use the abilities of your class to over challenges.

What is this madness?!

The way you say it, makes it sound almost like a revolutionary idea. The same goes with your notion of builds. It is perfectly common to use tailored specs and builds in an rpg. In fact, in most rpgs you have to because unless you prepare to each fight independently, you're not going to get through it, at least until you out gear it somehow. Hardcore raiding in WoW is a good example of this. So is soloing content in the same game, which is even more dependent on preparing for each encounter independently.


Believe I've already covered this part. I have no problems with the game being difficult and challenging. In fact, I like that Inferno progress is slow. I simply do not agree their design of how to implement some of those challenges. In this case, namely the way the NV buff works. Check my previous posts on the subject.

Are you actually serious? I don't think I can take anything you say seriously when you use WoW as an example in this argument. WoW has a respec cost. That's the consequence of changing your build. It's the exact same in Diablo except instead of having to return to town and spend gold you miss out on a few pieces of loot if you kill a boss.

Please give me an example of an RPG which freely lets you change around builds with no consequences. Diablo 3's system works well because it allows you to freely change between abilities on the move and to be honest, it hardly penalizes you at all. The best loot in the game drops in Act 4 and Diablo isn't even worth running with 5 NV in most cases as it's faster and more efficient to farm champion/rare packs.

Maybe you'd prefer it if Blizzard changed the system back to how it was previously, requiring you to visit town every time you wanted to change an ability or rune.

[Deleted]

Are you actually serious? I don't think I can take anything you say seriously *snip*

Quite frankly the feeling is mutual.

First of all, respeccing in Diablo 3 and WoW don't work the same way. When we talk of respeccing in WoW, we alter our talent selections, which are much like runes in Diablo. But talents are not abilities. Speaking of abilities, like I have done all through this thread, yes, in games like WoW and Swtor I can use every ability in my arsenal.

WoW has a respec cost. That's the consequence of changing your build.

Ohh please... WoW's respec cost is negligible. If you do any sort of serious raiding, you will commonly change specs even multiples during one raiding night. The cost doesn't slow you down one bit. You can plan your specs in advance, store them in a mod, hearthstone to a city, respec, and get back into the instance under two minutes.

Maybe you'd prefer it if Blizzard changed the system back to how it was previously, requiring you to visit town every time you wanted to change an ability or rune.

Odds are if I thought that, I might have said so. Don't be putting words in my mouth or thinking for me. That's just rude.

[Deleted]

First of all, respeccing in Diablo 3 and WoW don't work the same way. When we talk of respeccing in WoW, we alter our talent selections, which are much like runes in Diablo. But talents are not abilities. Speaking of abilities, like I have done all through this thread, yes, in games like WoW and Swtor I can use every ability in my arsenal.

Guess what? Diablo and WoW are different games. Diablo's abilities are WoW's talents. I'm sure being able to use 20+ abilities at once would make this game so much more interesting.

Ohh please... WoW's respec cost is negligible. If you do any sort of serious raiding, you will commonly change specs even multiples during one raiding night. The cost doesn't slow you down one bit. You can plan your specs in advance, store them in a mod, hearthstone to a city, respec, and get back into the instance under two minutes.

Diablo's respec cost is zero if you are farming the best items in the game in Act 4 of Inferno and it is pretty much negligible in earlier acts as well.

Odds are if I thought that, I might have said so. Don't be putting words in my mouth or thinking for me. That's just rude.

The point is that you haven't actually suggested anything of value. All you've suggested is that the current implementation is bad design. If you think it's so bad where is your solution? It must be easy to come up with a solution to something that is bad, right?

Still waiting for an RPG example.

[Deleted]

If we're talking about every, actual ability that my class has (fireball, magic missile, charge, etc.) then almost any rpg or mmo I've played. WoW, Swtor, for example?

You completely missed my point. Its not off-topic, its exactly the topic that you brought up. You said its bad design because, and I quote: "It's that I disagree that using all your abilities, and knowing when to use them can be equally creative, to find ways to make the most of your character. If anything, using your entire repertoire of abilities and options is what demonstrates skill.".

You said its bad design because it doesn't allow you to use your full repertoire. I've just show you that every single game in existence does this, that is how you create a challenge in an RPG. The point is there are artificial limitations on the player's reperotioir by design. Your argument that it is bad design falls flat because every single RPG uses this design. You're just trying to claim that the artificial limitations on respecs is somehow different and bad while the artificial limitations on action bars is perfectly acceptable. I don't see your logic behind this. They both accomplish the same thing, its just that in the first 3 levels of difficulty you have 1 artificial limitation and on the 4th and harder level - not surprisingly - you're burdened with another artificial limitation. Its a continuation of the same design for creating challenge in an RPG used in all games.

If I thought the difficulty wasn't high enough, or if certain abilities gave players' the ability to trivialize the content, beyond just out gearing it? Probably would look into those abilities and maybe nerf or change them, as e.g. Blizzard just did with demon hunters and wizards. If the mobs seem to lack challenging abilities, I'd create new ones or make mobs more complex.

Then you'd end up nerfing everything because every ability is powerful enough to trivialize some content. Inferno would be nowhere near as hard as it is now if they allowed us to pick and choose for every elite pack. Inferno SHOULD be as hard as it is now, that's what it was made to be. So it by your reply I take it in order to keep that difficulty you'll just... what? Nerf all abilities? Then we'll be so weak that we HAVE to respec before all fights leading to tedious menu-work all the time. You haven't really addressed the problem I presented with your system. Yes, it might be more fun for some to have flexibility (I say some because personally, and I'm now alone in this, I enjoy looking for and finding versatile builds) but it'll be less fun for many to have to constantly respec and you have to admit that is one downside of your idea.

Now I won't say there is no leeway. I can perhaps agree that Act bosses can be given free reign to respec for without losing the buff and they can also be buffed in difficulty to compensate for this, that would make them actually hard too rather than the pushovers they are now. Respecing for an epic boss fight makes some sense to me, making a system that allows you to respec for every single elite pack you meet does not.

Edit: Just to clarify, I am ok with boss fight respecs for two reasons both linked to my previous arguments:
1) It would allow leeway to raise the act boss difficulty a lot, which I think will be good for the game as bosses should be hard
2) It will not burden the player with constant respecs

I think free-respecs at all times are bad because:
1) It will make elite packs be easier than they are now, so to keep the difficulty they'd be raised in strength leading to #2-
2) It will force many and frequent respecs to adjust for every new elite pack