What went wrong?

[Deleted]

What exactly went wrong with swtor?

We're 6 months down the line and all I hear this day is how swtor is dying and it's hard to deny that swtor isn't in good condition right now.

Is it possible to regain their subs or is it only going downhill from now.

What happened that started this insane decline in numbers for such a hyped mmo that cost 300 million to build?

[Thornstar]

Nothing went wrong, the game is fine. People left and frankly it is expected to happen.

[Shadylol]

Simple, SWTOR isn't popular

It didn't get enough sales at release, to compete with WoW, and as such it hasn't been taken seriously by EA. BioWare can try as they may, but without proper funding, it's a waste of effort, and EA controls that entirely

If you want a comprehensive list, well... here -

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=67935

I wrote that in December, and I guess the only thing that's changed is that many Servers are completely empty, as opposed to just mostly empty, and there's constant complaints about a lack of Server transfers/megers

Personally, I got a full refund (including shipping) from Amazon, back in January. I said that I would come back to SWTOR if they somehow managed to fix it, but with the recent termination of over 25% of the Development staff, and a loss of over 25% subscribers... I don't think that's in the cards

[Mezzolith]

I think it just needs to go the route of Rift and take care of their core subscribers, instead of trying to become the next WoW.

But I don't see it happening, EA want's money and they will find a way to make it with this game. At the cost of more subscribers, no doubt.

It's shame too cause it's a great game.

[FuxieDK]

One very big reason, I (and pretty much everyone I know) didn't like the game, was the 10/30/60% split..

60% of the time, you listen to quest-voice
30% of the time, you run back and forth
10% of the time, you spend actually playing..

MANY MANY people complained about this, but nothing was done..
In the end, I didn't buy the game.. Open Beta was more than enough for me.

[Grumblerot]

SWTOR has a great solo leveling experience. Unfortunately it is much too hard to find groups to run flash points with. You can still level solo, but once you hit level cap your choices are to run dailies by yourself, wait for a PvP que or sit in fleet and wait until you can get a group together. Dailies get old after a few weeks, so once those aren't appealing any more, playing the game consist of a great deal of waiting. Waiting isn't fun.

If you like PvP, you can at least do that at level cap (assuming you don't mind the que wait). But if your preference is PvE, there is no easy way to get a group together. Without a LFG tool or even a game-wide LFG chat channel, it is far, far too difficult to find people to run flash points with. It is made worse by the fact that flash points don't drop desirable gear, so there is not a lot of demand to run them, and little motivation to sit in fleet for a rather long while, spamming chat as you try to form a group. Simply put, it is nearly impossible for casual PvE players to play the game AS AN MMO.

I don't like to PvP. I joined a raiding guild just so that i could find others to PvE with. We've cleared the hard mode of the top raid tier, so there is little motivation in-guild to run flashpoints . I find that other than raid night, there is nothing for me to do when I log in. I want to run flash points, but simply can't.

You can tell the designers didn't think this through if you look at where people's social levels are. I started playing my main at launch, and have run all flash points and every ops many times. Six months later I'm still only social level three, which is the social level required for players to buy gear on level 30-ish planets. So my social level is about where the designers thought someone would be when they hit level 30. You can see that they thought we'd be grouping more (and therefore have higher social levels by this point). And we would but it is just too difficult to do so.

So I'd say SWTOR is a multiplayer game without the tools you need to play with the other players. What you end up doing is leveling alts and thereby playing it solo most of the time, or you just stop playing.

[LilSaihah]

It doesn't have the correct business model to approach its single-player content.

Just about every system in the game has a crippling flaw, doesn't stray at all from the WoW formula, or plays it safe with a little taste of something interesting.

The quality of a lot of the story content is diluted and not really what people expect of Bioware.

The server structure is nowhere near up to a 2012 standard.

[mystik]

WoW has built up very high expectations. WoW at release was bug ridden, low content, and overall a mess. Now people want 7 years worth of content that WoW built up. WoW also made people very lazy and impatient. Nobody wants to put any effort into certain things, and they don't want to hear "soon", they want "now". Gamers are very demanding now, especially MMO players.

What can be done? Just keep building with what there is, and at a decent pace. It's impossible to please the whole fanbase, and it'd be idiotic to try. There are some key things that need to be done though. They did put out too many servers at release, but that was partially due to people whining about queues instead of waiting it out.

It is very possible to get players back, and new ones still. Again as said a lot of the community is whiny, and won't come back till they get their own way. Example see this thread and forum. People love bitching. Maybe some are bored with MMO's in general.

Patching is going to have to happen quicker though, as said people are very impatient now. Whether other games patch slowly or not, to keep people involved they need to get server merges, AND new content as quick as possible.

---------- Post added 2012-05-30 at 03:19 AM ----------

It doesn't have the correct business model to approach its single-player content.

Just about every system in the game has a crippling flaw, doesn't stray at all from the WoW formula, or plays it safe with a little taste of something interesting.

The quality of a lot of the story content is diluted and not really what people expect of Bioware.

The server structure is nowhere near up to a 2012 standard.

I can agree with some of this. While I do enjoy the story content, it just doesn't seem up to the quality of the Mass Effect series or other BW titles. (blah blah the ending sucked, I know. I'm talking overall)

[Odegon]

They put an end to the game. People played finished and moved on.///spoiler JK kills xxxxxx at the end of class story. The biggest goal you can put in a game and you blow it at the 3rd day. /////spoiler

[Leonard McCoy]

Did something happen to swtor that I wasn't aware of? While the game has had it's stumbles and faults it's still around getting better.

[Shadylol]

Did something happen to swtor that I wasn't aware of? While the game has had it's stumbles and faults it's still around getting better.

It lost over 25% of it's subscribers, and over 25% of the Development staff was just fired

[Leonard McCoy]

It lost over 25% of it's subscribers, and over 25% of the Development staff was just fired

And how many people does that encompass in total? The articles I read had their development staff had bloated to 800 people. Some trimming was indeed needed. As for the subs yes they declined but that's the nature of mmos it seems. Warcrafts subs go up and down like the stock market. Rifts have stabilized but they to have a variance. The important one will be the next quarterly then we can see if it's just a downward trend from here on out or a dip and spike.

I'm still curious what happened to swtor? The game is getting better and more content is coming.

[Shadylol]

And how many people does that encompass in total? The articles I read had their development staff had bloated to 800 people. Some trimming was indeed needed. As for the subs yes they declined but that's the nature of mmos it seems. Warcrafts subs go up and down like the stock market. Rifts have stabilized but they to have a variance. The important one will be the next quarterly then we can see if it's just a downward trend from here on out or a dip and spike.

I'm still curious what happened to swtor? The game is getting better and more content is coming.

WoW has never lost 25% of it's total subscribers in one Quarter. That is considered an unrecoverable loss, by many people

[Leonard McCoy]

WoW has never lost 25% of it's total subscribers in one Quarter. That is considered an unrecoverable loss, by many people

In terms of actual people it's probably lost more than that. As a percentage probably not but this isn't Warcraft were talking about. That still in no way shape or form invalidates my point about the variance of subs in the game. It's hard to say where it will end up but next quarter will give us a much clearer picture. It is only considered a unrecoverable loss by people who don't count for much I'm afraid. It is not considered unrecoverable for the most important people. Bioware and the people who play the game, enjoy it and pay for it.

[VenomousCarnage]

People overreacted and WoW fanboys like to take down the game.

The game is not perfect and certainly needed some improvements from launch but many people are still overreacting to the current state of the game. The only major problem at the moment is low population due to people being spread over too many servers and lazy WoW people abandoning it because they expected a 7 year polished game out of the gate.

Most hate now comes from people who left early and only think of the bugs they encountered (many of which are now fixed) or other MMO fanboys who jumped into a game and expected something different then what it was (like people complaining about voice overs).

It's funny how people come from other sections of the forums just to get a chance to bash the game with biased reports and lies.

[jac_Arcanis]

Yeah nobody should expect a polished game out of the gate. Like when Ocarina of Time or Mario 64 was released for the Nintendo 64 they had to do years of bug fixing and improvements to make those games what they are...

My point is the game released with enough leveling content but not enough MMO standard content to warrant a subscription fee.

[Shadylol]

In terms of actual people it's probably lost more than that. As a percentage probably not but this isn't Warcraft were talking about. That still in no way shape or form invalidates my point about the variance of subs in the game. It's hard to say where it will end up but next quarter will give us a much clearer picture. It is only considered a unrecoverable loss by people who don't count for much I'm afraid. It is not considered unrecoverable for the most important people. Bioware and the people who play the game, enjoy it and pay for it.

I'm sorry but this is simply not the case. It's clearly considered an unrecoverable loss by the only people that truly matter, because soon after they lost all those subscribers, they deleted over 25% of their Development staff

[Leonard McCoy]

I'm sorry but this is simply not the case. It's clearly considered an unrecoverable loss by the only people that truly matter, because soon after they lost all those subscribers, they deleted over 25% of their Development staff

Which as has been reported to have bloated up to almost 800 people. Cuts were due frankly (as much as I empathize with those people) that's just to big a staff for a game and sub loss or not we would have seen them get cut anyway. So at the end of the day the only people who's concerned opinion matters about wether or not it's an "unrecoverable loss" are Bioware and the people playing the game.

[Deleted]

What exactly went wrong with swtor?

We're 6 months down the line and all I hear this day is how swtor is dying and it's hard to deny that swtor isn't in good condition right now.

Is it possible to regain their subs or is it only going downhill from now.

What happened that started this insane decline in numbers for such a hyped mmo that cost 300 million to build?

The only thing that went wrong is probably that the game wasn't for everyone and some people left leaving many servers that people are spread out on and there are no server transfer in place in game. I think once that problem is fixed the game will continue to develop and easier to keep players together and they will keep a balanced numbers of players. And once the cost of the game goes down and a free demo is in place more people will be added to the game. It's a matter of wait and see, but I don't see the game being in any danger what so ever, it's just that it has taken a while to sort important things out but as we can see it will be taken care of in a near future.

[Frenegade42]

I think in the broadest sense the game as an MMO was always going to be limited by the IP.
It's a great single player game that you have to subscribe for unless you can "beat" it in your free month.

MMO players have a real pack mentality. The core community doesn't look at a prospective new MMO and go "that looks great, I'm really looking forward to playing that for 2 months before I go buy another game from Gamestop". In those first few months they are weighing if this game is worth their long term investment of time; if they are going to log into this game night after night for the next 5 years. They drive the game's momentum and shape the community. Laugh at the no-lifers all you like, but to them an MMO is a serious commitment of their time and energy and you have to grab those folks early. In the first few months not many people are invested heart and mind in their new characters in your new game and are quite prepared to walk.

Not saying that not capturing those folks is "failure" but if you're not making an MMO with the objective being to clout WOW over the head with and steal millions of subscribers, between you and me, I'll just sink my dollars into another gaming company.