Video Game Emotional Vent Session

[Argroth]

LT;DR - WoW community killed it for me and Blizz is going in the wrong direction game wise and I will never go back.

Basically all of what you said in that post.

I did enjoy WoW for a time but the community and especially Blizzard ruined it for me. Blizzard altogether seems to be going in a bad direction. They seem to be less about quality now and more about squeezing every dime out of their over-devoted fanbase.
WoW lore has been running on fumes for awhile, they have almost always just relied on wrapping up WC3 plots and after cataclysm attempts they have stooped to making a whole expansion based on one side "joke" character and pokemon. The fanaticism of WoW fans is also completely intolerable how they eagerly eat up anything and everything blizzard does, it's shameful in many cases.

It wasn't just WoW either. I liked Starcraft but I can't believe how long they are taking to make Heart of the Swarm considering how they themselves said they were already working on it when Wings of Liberty was released. Somehow I just don't think it will live up to this crazy long production time, yet it will be met like a gift sent by the gods from so many people.

I was never a big player of diablo but my friends were and in recent years I beat the first two games, but the moment I saw the Real money AH I saw it for what it was; a lazy way for blizzard to rake in more money under the guise of stopping gold sellers. It was the laziest, greediest half-solution they could find and they played it up as heroes. I also heard from both people and media that the game isn't so amazing.

---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 08:38 AM ----------

Probably something we'll see a lot of if this thread kicks off, but FFXI. I seriously miss it. Looking back on it, it wasn't very breathtaking as a game... but the experience was one I'll never forget. The community molded, formed and maintained themselves into something that was just amazing. There was no trolling in general chats, no one attacking people for bad gear, no one calling anyone else newbs or bad players.

Every single damn day you'd see or hear about someone taking an inexperienced player out and spending hours getting their artifact gear with them. Completely selflessly. No payment, no trade off... just to help. The classes helped eachother, people cared about their characters... it was just an MMO Utopia that I've had to accept will NEVER happen again.

Miss it dearly.

OOoo that is a good example. I also tried out FFXI for awhile.

It sounded so great, it looked good and even had a bunch of nice features. I had so many dreams for that game and it would be nice if I could achieve them. I wanted to be a dragoon, my all-time favorite fantasy class, especially since they made it the kind that actually has a dragon partner. I loved that they had red mages. I loved how it had housing. I wanted to raise a sweet chocobo. But even though that was all possible it wasn't in the cards for me to achieve it seemed.

I unfortunatly had 2 roadblocks on that game though. First was completely my own problem, I bought it for the PS2 and not the computer. I ddn't have a good computer at the time so i figured it was great that they sold it on PS2, i would get all the gameplay, all the graphics and it would run all smoothly since it was made to be played on the system. That was all true but what i didn't realize was that MMOs don't really play that well with a controller and the online interface of getting into the game and stuff was kinda off for a system. PS2s as far as I know can't get any attachments for a wireless internet, and quickly selecting options on a computer like screen with a controller isn't half as easy as the rapid movements a mouse can make.

My second biggest block with the game was the fact that it was pretty much manditory to group to level up. The game level squished to make finding a group easier but it still wasn't very fun when you had to group up to take on things that were like a level above you and like very creature group was like a mini boss. So every time i made a character i would get it to level 20-30 then just give up and start again.

People were nice in that game if you could get them to acknowledge you... So many just left thier characters on to sell stuff in thier little stores or were way too preoccupied to listen...

I could deal with the first roadblock of a PS2 interface but the always having to group to do pretty much ANYTHING (not just leveling since most materials and extra stuff required at some point or another to go to many of these places that had impossible solo monsters) was too much

[Kelimbror]

There was no trolling in general chats, no one attacking people for bad gear, no one calling anyone else newbs or bad players.

Every single damn day you'd see or hear about someone taking an inexperienced player out and spending hours getting their artifact gear with them. Completely selflessly. No payment, no trade off... just to help. The classes helped eachother, people cared about their characters... it was just an MMO Utopia that I've had to accept will NEVER happen again.

Miss it dearly.

Believe it or not, WoW had it's time in the sun with this as well. Even the trolling seemed to be mostly lighthearted and didn't affect the community in a negative way. More like, 'oh look at the children..they're being ridiculous...mwuah hahah' kinda way.


The problem with most game communities now, is they are always going to come with a percentage of the current WoW population. And let's be honest, it never translates into a good experience. There are plenty of good moments from SWTOR launch where I felt that accomplishing things was possible with other people. Even now since I started playing a little again with my free time still rolling, the starting zones have people constantly grouping. If that translated to the fleet, this game would be stellar.


MMOs get the good and the bad in this respect. TERA online has the worst general chat now in terms of sheer stupidity. It's like spamming Thunderfury or barrens chat, except intead of just trying to be crude, it is weeks straight of talking about alienware computers. How have we come to a place where talking about computers is a form of trolling...it's just terrible.

The people playing every MMO make me believe in the future that is presented in Idiocracy. Here we come Brawndo.

[Luko]

Believe it or not, WoW had it's time in the sun with this as well. Even the trolling seemed to be mostly lighthearted and didn't affect the community in a negative way. More like, 'oh look at the children..they're being ridiculous...mwuah hahah' kinda way.

.

Yeah I was present for a little of it. Had originally bought the game at release (WoW) but as Argroth above will tell you, FFXI was incredibly time consuming for the simplest task, so I was under the delusion that it had to be my only MMO and I didn't get to enjoy WoW in it's community glory days.

Sad, but I try not to think back on those days (2002-2006ish) as anything but a good memory as I'm completely confident that they won't be back.

[summourn]

There are three games that are like this for me.

The first is actually Neverwinter Nights. I've had more fun on that game than I've ever had on another. I was on a great server with a good community. It's where I learned about online roleplaying and how much fun a person can have by creating a character, giving her a story, and interacting with others. I had always been a fiction writer, but this new element of unpredictability was addicting. The game never changed much for the worse, but age simply got to it. There was also the issue of the community I hung with kind of self-imploding. People got into petty fights with each other, the guy running the server took it down, etc. I still think about that game to this day with such fondness, though. Roleplaying in other MMOs (not sure if NWN could ever be considered an MMO, but still) just isn't nearly the same. There's not nearly the freedoms of customization and creation NWN had. You could design your own armor from scratch, create your own weapons and decide how they looked, give each self-made item a name and even a long description if it was some lore item that had a story behind it, etc.

The game I played after my NWN community kind of died out was Guild Wars. I'm a huge fan of GW2 and can't wait for it to come out. My first traditional MMO was the first GW though, and though I wasted many an hour of summer vacations playing that game, a lot of aspects really started to get to me. It drove me nuts that I can't jump (as I am a self professed spacebar addict) among other limitations (like the instanced, lonely world outside of towns). Things like that just got to me so much. I really love my main, who is a ritualist, and I have some awesome armor that I worked very hard to get which is dyed fully black. Sometimes I still log on for the nostalgia of it all, but I find I can't bring myself to stay on more than half an hour at most.

Then, of course, there is WoW. I love WoW. I hate WoW. We have been married and divorced probably 3 times now. We decided to see other people. But in the end, I find that no matter how many other shiny new MMOs I play, no matter how many complaints I have about WoW not doing enough of this or doing too much of that, etc etc, I can't stay away for more than a few months at a time. Some old nostalgia for all the fun I had running around on that game for years just comes creeping back in, and I start thinking about it, and then I sub again for a while.

There's something that has changed about WoW, indeed. In fact, I don't mind most of the changes. What I will always long for, though, and will never be able to achieve again, is that feeling of being an utter noob. Being new to the world, running around Teldrassil, falling off the side to my doom, making the long haul from Menethil Harbor to Ironforge as a new level 12 with the drive to explore, seeing the tram for the first time, staring awe-stricken at the level 60 vanilla raid armors a lot of people had, etc. It's that feeling of being new and in love with all the mysteries of that virtual world. I wish I could have that back. Even with new MMOs, though I still get it to an extent, it's much more diminished than my first few weeks in WoW. I may find myself in a different world with different rules, but in the end, one MMO is often like the next, and I always know what to expect to some extent. That's what I miss most. It's not the games that have changed so much; it's me.

[Deleted]

Then, of course, there is WoW. I love WoW. I hate WoW. We have been married and divorced probably 3 times now. We decided to see other people.

this is just a great line! pretty much sums up how i feel though differening last paragrpah, due to TOR(and my love of anything star wars) the divorce has finally been finalised - i uninstalled it for the first time since Vanilla Beta.

Only way it'll ever be reinstalled is with a graphics update, some serious movement in the personnel department(GC im looking at you) and a radical change in direction.

To answer the OP, WoW used to be that game for me, time will tell if i ever think the same about TOR.

[Arlee]

Oh NWN.... /sigh I have been trying to recapture the feeling I had playing that game ever since I finished playing it through with all the variations to see the outcome of every choice. In fact most of the reason I even wanted to Diablo was because is seemed similar to what NWN was (I had never played the previous Diablo games). I can't even express how apprehensive I am about the fact that they are making the next NWN game a mmo...

[summourn]

I can't even express how apprehensive I am about the fact that they are making the next NWN game a mmo...

Wait.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

What? A new NWN MMO?

Edit: Okay. I just looked some of this stuff up. OMG.

I'm so torn. It's free to play, which is awesome. So there's no reason not for me to try it. Also... I found this little bit of interesting info, regardless of it being an MMO:

"Q: Will I be able to make my own adventures and play through them with my friends?

Yes! It wouldn't be a true Neverwinter game without a content-creation tool! Players will be able to shape and add to the world of Neverwinter by creating and building their own adventures or full-fledged campaigns from the ground up using The Foundry for Neverwinter."

Source: http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/faq & nw.perfectworld.com/about/foundry

Zomg.

[Arlee]

Yea I got to play the Pre-Alpha demo while at Pax East and it was pretty fun and I am really looking forward to it... I just find it extremely difficult to just get excited about a game at this point. I can't help thinking " There are soo many ways they could screw this up!" >< I blame forums

I am signed-up for it's beta, so if I get in for that (whenever it is) I am sure I'll be posting about it in the video games forum.

[Deleted]

Wait.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

What? A new NWN MMO?

Edit: Okay. I just looked some of this stuff up. OMG.

I'm so torn. It's free to play, which is awesome. So there's no reason not for me to try it. Also... I found this little bit of interesting info, regardless of it being an MMO:

"Q: Will I be able to make my own adventures and play through them with my friends?

Yes! It wouldn't be a true Neverwinter game without a content-creation tool! Players will be able to shape and add to the world of Neverwinter by creating and building their own adventures or full-fledged campaigns from the ground up using The Foundry for Neverwinter."

Source: http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/faq & nw.perfectworld.com/about/foundry

Zomg.

Word of caution its made by cryptic, and its current game Star Trek Online has a content maker too also named the foundry, which when i played it barely ever worked.

[Kelimbror]

Then, of course, there is WoW. I love WoW. I hate WoW. We have been married and divorced probably 3 times now. We decided to see other people. But in the end, I find that no matter how many other shiny new MMOs I play, no matter how many complaints I have about WoW not doing enough of this or doing too much of that, etc etc, I can't stay away for more than a few months at a time. Some old nostalgia for all the fun I had running around on that game for years just comes creeping back in, and I start thinking about it, and then I sub again for a while.

There's something that has changed about WoW, indeed. In fact, I don't mind most of the changes. What I will always long for, though, and will never be able to achieve again, is that feeling of being an utter noob. Being new to the world, running around Teldrassil, falling off the side to my doom, making the long haul from Menethil Harbor to Ironforge as a new level 12 with the drive to explore, seeing the tram for the first time, staring awe-stricken at the level 60 vanilla raid armors a lot of people had, etc. It's that feeling of being new and in love with all the mysteries of that virtual world. I wish I could have that back. Even with new MMOs, though I still get it to an extent, it's much more diminished than my first few weeks in WoW. I may find myself in a different world with different rules, but in the end, one MMO is often like the next, and I always know what to expect to some extent. That's what I miss most. It's not the games that have changed so much; it's me.

I think you captured a good deal of how I feel. Which still evokes in me a confusion at how I'm not ever going to be as happy as I used to be playing MMOs, but that there's no denying I still want to play them. I don't know that there will ever be a point where I can walk away from them all.

You are right that the noob mystery *kinda* remains when you start a new game, but not really. In fact, it is almost worse b/c the things that you feel confused about or noobish on, tend to just be frustrating or poorly designed now. For example, the crafting and enchanting system in TERA online just makes me feel frustratingly awkward. It's not hard, it's not weird just b/c it is different...but instead of feeling like a noob who wants to learn about it, I am not happy with the way it is designed or feels.

I am having less and less moments where when I finally 'get' something, I can say, "Wow, that's really awesome!". There are way too many, "Oh, this is how it works? This sucks", moments now.

I think this speaks more on the fact that we have nothing left to truly learn about the genre and this problem is present in the development of the games as well. It explains why games promised to be innovative and different never feel that way. With the longevity of most games and the model of experience, it pretty much ensures that even when new generations become involved there will never be enough new blood at a time to generate a revolution.


With that thought ranting out, that means it is either up to the older MMO vets to completely shift our playing and cause a huge change in game design. The only obstacle in that, is that none of us *really* wants that. I know I don't.

[Bellomourn]

I feel this way with Swtor sometimes...

But the thing that brings me back to reality is that my server is likely dead.
& I always hated the fleet being the center point of everything. DOWN WITH THE FLEET.
I wish they made Kaas City the capitol.. but meh. Regrets :c

[hythos]

Word of caution its made by cryptic, and its current game Star Trek Online has a content maker too also named the foundry, which when i played it barely ever worked.

AWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwee darn. And isn't Cryptic now owned by some asian-based entity? Crud.
THE one thing that gave NWN such a potential, is the portal-linking... Enter into a scenario through EntranceA, and leave through ExitB, ExitC, or ExitD; Those three link to EntraceB, EntranceC, or EntranceD - and any of those three could be anywhere, located on the same server OR somewhere else (depending on how they were linked, characters were stored, etc. NWN by itself, *could* have become an infinitely looped, endless 'world'. IF NWNOL/MMO is US-based, I'll certainly give it a try....

AND! on-topic: I've gone back to WOW too many times, which have been 95% friends, 5% "content". However, I won't go back again, ever - even once Titan is released and includes a portal to WOW. Likely won't go back to Blizzard at all.

My SWTOR accound DID actually lapse, for about a week (though I've been busy with RL stuff, so I didn't really 'miss' much.) I've been attracted to SWTOR about 65% people/friends (initially was 100%), though it's now about 35% friends/65% content, as my friends don't even play any more. I actually really enjoyed Fallen Earth and have wanted to go back, though I'm at a point in my life now, where I really shoudn't be playing any games, and focusing on other things instead... but the gamer in me continues to pull me back in!!

[Rooflesstoofless]

Gaming is a hobby. I see nothing wrong with experiencing disappointment when something doesn't come out the way you'd hoped. I used to make custom fishing rods for myself/friends/family as a hobby and you have no idea how pissed I'd be when/if dust or a bug landed in the Flex-Coat [epoxy] after spending countless hours making something like this.

I think I get to the subscription page for SWTOR once a week before reconsidering. There are aspects of the game I absolutely love and I want this game to be huge and successful...but there are also glaring issues that overshadow many of those good qualities. Its not worth going into all the reasons why I am disappointed as they've been voiced a thousand times over by many members of this forum already.

I think a lot of people have disappointment in the game and still linger around this subforum long after they've stopped playing the game is because they want it to get on track and be good, see there is potential in getting there, and are waiting for that one thing that will make the game worthwhile to them again. Yes, there are definitely those who linger and will not come back and certainly the lolhateballz...I am not going to remotely deny that.

I've played some laughably horrible games in the last few years...a few of them were even consider great/groundbreaking/awesome by reviewers and forum members alike while I thought they were absolute dog shit. I wont even discuss or comment on those games because to me they are bad and that is never going to change for me. Those kind of games are more of a matter of just accepting they suck and moving on versus being disappointed and hoping for better in the near future.


I will be playing GW2 but also plan to play another P2P MMO along with it. I really want that P2P MMO to be SWTOR, but that's up to BW. I'm not a WoW player and Rift, despite being so feature rich and well put together, has yet to inspire that feeling of giving a shit.

[namelessone]

I think I'm starting to notice a pattern. Niche games always SEEM to have better communities, since they are by definition aimed at a specific group of players who can likely relate to each other well. Games meant for more diverse audiences start to have issues when different elements of their communities collide. "Hardcores" fight "Casuals", "Adults" fight "Kids", and everyone always blames the rest of the community for being asshats without ever looking to their own attitude.

[Argroth]

I think I'm starting to notice a pattern. Niche games always SEEM to have better communities, since they are by definition aimed at a specific group of players who can likely relate to each other well. Games meant for more diverse audiences start to have issues when different elements of their communities collide. "Hardcores" fight "Casuals", "Adults" fight "Kids", and everyone always blames the rest of the community for being asshats without ever looking to their own attitude.

I'm pretty sure it's those "diverse" games that allow for a large crowd that don't fit in any of the niche games that create the problem.

You can't simply just blame anyone and everyone because differences collide, people with differences are able to get along just fine. It's only in a cesspool game like WoW that fits everyone do the people who wouldn't be decent in ANY game thrive.

I don't think it's as black and white as you think. It's not exactly like people are perfectly happy in their niche games but everyone becomes their own problem in diverse games. Some games just do allow for a worse community (i.e. WoW)

[Kelimbror]

I'm pretty sure it's those "diverse" games that allow for a large crowd that don't fit in any of the niche games that create the problem.

You can't simply just blame anyone and everyone because differences collide, people with differences are able to get along just fine. It's only in a cesspool game like WoW that fits everyone do the people who wouldn't be decent in ANY game thrive.

I don't think it's as black and white as you think. It's not exactly like people are perfectly happy in their niche games but everyone becomes their own problem in diverse games. Some games just do allow for a worse community (i.e. WoW)

True enough...probably why console games haven't really had this problem very much. I mean to think that games came from a finished product, with no updates, where the only community experience we had were with our chosen friends....to this....very stark contrast.

I still think we're glad on the whole that this genre and type of gaming has evolved...it's much easier to enjoy it as a huge way of life. Yeah we were crazy about mario and zelda as kids, but it didn't encompass our being. No matter how high our head was in the clouds, it didn't play such a major role in how we literally perceived the world around us relating to other people.

Gaming now does make us do that...it's kinda weird.

[namelessone]

I'm pretty sure it's those "diverse" games that allow for a large crowd that don't fit in any of the niche games that create the problem.

You can't simply just blame anyone and everyone because differences collide, people with differences are able to get along just fine. It's only in a cesspool game like WoW that fits everyone do the people who wouldn't be decent in ANY game thrive.

I don't think it's as black and white as you think. It's not exactly like people are perfectly happy in their niche games but everyone becomes their own problem in diverse games. Some games just do allow for a worse community (i.e. WoW)

You might have actually just proven my point. I mean this phrase: "fits everyone do the people who wouldn't be decent in ANY game thrive." So apparently, according to you, only people of a certain skill should be allowed to enjoy a game. This is exactly the kind of fracturing that I'm talking about. The games allows different groups of people to play it - those with high and low skill level, but these groups don't mix, since people like you are bashing people who don't have skill.

[Luko]

Very true. A decade ago, when Everquest and Ultima roamed wild, they were very niche games made for a particular audience. (actually this applies to almost every genre these days. Stop doing that, game companies. Stop trying to make your platformer appeal to FPS fans, etc.)

Most gamers never touched everquest or UO, even when they were brand new and original. It simply wasn't for them. Because of this, the games were able to focus their center of appeal and give the expected audience exactly what they wanted without having to worry about people with too little time, or people trying to play MMOs with 4 kids, people who previously only played Mario Kart. (If these people played, they knew what they were getting into and didn't expect the game to change FOR them.

[digger66]

I have a similar feeling towards WoW. I spent a couple of good years in wow with my high school friends, and I even made a few friends. I want to want to play WoW again, and I do want to play a panda. I thought that I would get back into it with the pandaria Beta, but that just didn't work out for me. I had a good time with WoW, but it is outdated now to a large extent, and even with the future changes coming, it just isn't enough to bring me back even though I like most of them. The biggest thing I miss from WoW is friends, but a few of them ended up quitting as well. For the last year or so, WoW has just been logging on and flying around Org while talking to people. I mostly got tired of paying for an instant messenger. I've moved on. Life to be lived, many new friends to be made, and lots of other games to play. Right now, I am really looking forward to planetside 2. I think it will scratch my itch for an MMO quite nicely.

Wow... looking back at this it sounds like I'm talking about a lost love or something haha.

Friends. your comment about friends is to me what it is all about. I am not sure if I am done with WoW or not. But right now it does not hold that epic feeling for me like it did when the game was at it's peak (for me). It was the people around me at 70 that we downed Hyjal and BT and were Trying to farm to do Sunwell, then teh first part of wrath and our server firsts and so on. All but a handful have moved on and not because of WOW. Some had kids, some went to graduate school soem got more stressful jobs. But for almost 2 years playing was bliss. Logging in to vent while you did dailies and bullshitting. Doing crazy shit like mounting the motorcycle and storming thru Org when you took no dmg on the bike. The game is still pretty much the same. I just dont have the fun i use to. I would love for that time to come back.

[Argroth]

You might have actually just proven my point. I mean this phrase: "fits everyone do the people who wouldn't be decent in ANY game thrive." So apparently, according to you, only people of a certain skill should be allowed to enjoy a game. This is exactly the kind of fracturing that I'm talking about. The games allows different groups of people to play it - those with high and low skill level, but these groups don't mix, since people like you are bashing people who don't have skill.

I never said skill anywhere in my post. I never talked about people able to do raids,PVP well and people who can't do flashpoints, that's merely the conclusion you jumped too. There are features/things/goals/ideas in mmos other then elitism.

Some people don't fit into everyday society, should we blame all of society? Some people bring their problems onto themselves and WoW being around as long as it has been has accumulated quite a terrible and lazy community that has evolved to what it is today. Blizzard feeding these lazy ideals and concepts to bring in more and worse people.

So from your original argument it's not just that niche games SEEM to have better communities it's that they actually do. These games can even have a variety of things to do and can only be called niche as an opinion but they just don't have the floodgate mentality for everyone and they don't cater to the worst like bad companies like WoW does.

People in general can be great and work together fine even with many differences but some people are jerks and have other terrible qualities and Blizzard seems to feed off of them.


ANYWAYS. back on subject.

I really like the Final Fantasy series and when FFXII came out I thought it would be a good purchase, but boy was I wrong. I read reviews giving it great scores and amazing hype but i found it to be anything but what they said. Things like the battle system not flashing into a battle scene, monsters being on fields and the characters ability to move freely sounded like great ideas and I've even seen it work well in games like Xenoblade and somewhat like it in Legend of Mana.

I found the battle system terrible though. Characters slowly strafing around somehow looking more lethargic then previous games where characters just stood there. The blending of everyone's talents, equipment and abilities made every character a boring blob of bland (not helped by their "personalities"). The worst part of the battle system had to be the terrible quickenings (and to a lesser extent summons), both being incredibly weak and draining you of all your MP leaving party members devastated. I remember having a piece of tape to make my characters run in circles forever in the rare cases where I decided it would be at all helpful to use quickenings and there wasn't a crystal anywhere near.

Then there was the total block of the most boring story ever made in a FF game. I like stories that have some serious problems and even political dilemmas but playing this game is worse then watching hours of political debate over the dumbest things that interrupts your favorite show. Part of the story is also just the dull/unintersting characters. The only ones that felt even remotely like a typical Final Fantasy type of character were Balthier and Basch from time to time. I could go into each character and say how I feel but I can sum it up as they are all nobodies who are just shadows of cliches.

I gave this game two decent attempts where I played many hours trying to press forward till the story would pick up but I never found it. If it was just the boring story or just the annoying battle system I may have been able to push through the entire game but I couldn't torture myself to finish the game.

In comparison though, the terrible disappointment I had in FFXII, probably led to me accepting some of FFXIII's faults and now I find that game to be pretty great. The fast pace battles, the music/graphics, the tyrannical controlling government/Cacoon fal'cie regime, the characters bursting with at least noticeable personalities (even if some are full of cliches at least they had full personalities, They actually brought out emotions for what characters I liked and despised). FFXIII-2 was surely amazing with very few faults and has restored my faith that some people on the FF development team may have some good work still left in them.