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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by luml View Post
    So what have MOP done to shadow priest well lets have a look at it.

    Shadow Orb - Empowered shadow management:
    removed no longer have to keep track of this buff making sure that our dots is put up when this buff is active is no longer needed.
    I know absolutely no Shadow Priest that has enjoyed this mechanic. Though an extra layer of depth was an interesting concept, Empowered Shadow is one of the worst, clunkiest class mechanics ever. Most of the time, it was something you didn't worry about. Whenever it dropped off, or took a long time to get up, was extraordinarily frustrating. Even for a masochist such as myself.

    New Mastery:
    Gives you periodic Shadow damage spells ( % ) chance to deal damage twice, each time they deal damage.
    Not the most exciting mastery, I'll admit, but at least it's a little more interesting than a pure damage increase. I'd much rather have this than Empowered Shadow.

    My opinion on this:
    Makes the class less fun and challenging to play being able to handle this buff correct was rewarding making shadow priest more unique. The new mastery simplify shadow priest removing a huge skill factor thereby making the spec way less rewarding.
    If you enjoyed the mechanic, you're in the minority. The skill gap between a good Shadow Priest and a bad Shadow Priest has always been fairly high, for some reason. Shadow Priests are considerably more popular. Empowered Shadow management made the gap monstrously huge. You're telling me you WANT to play with MORE bad players?

    Dark Evangelism / Dark Archangel management:
    So Dark Archangel(2 min CD up from 1.5 min) is now optional and does not generate Dark Evangelism.

    My opinion on this:
    Yet another skill factor removed no management required and most likely not a talent that will be picked only for occasional fights.

    This two changes out of many that in my opinion destroys a lot of skill and challenge with the class.
    Making the cooldown 2 minutes is both a huge plus, and a bit of a negative at the same time. On the plus side, so many on-use trinkets have a cooldown at 2 minutes. Sure, our VP trinkets for Dragon Soul had 1.5 minute cooldown, but it's not a standard. Hell, if memory serves me well, 1 minute trinkets are more common than 1.5 minute trinkets.

    On the other hand, Shadowfiend's cooldown has been lowered to a no-longer-altered, static 3-minute cooldown. So at 1.5 minute Dark Archangel, it could've been possible to line the two up, and still get another Dark Archangel.

    On our magically suddenly mutated third hand, if you choose Power Infusion, Dark Archangel+Power Infusion+On Use Trinket will be an extremely powerful cooldown use phase. Especially with Mind Blast's cooldown lowered by haste.

    Dark Evangelism is a non-issue. It took no skill to manage. 1.5 Mindflays brought it back up. And you'd be pretty dumb to cast Dark Archangel when you know you've gotta refresh your dots a GCD or two later. Anyone with half a brain cell would cast DA after DoTs have been refreshed.

    Your only other options are 15% chance for a free, instant Mind Spike that doesn't cancel DoTs after a Vampiric Touch tick, will probably end up not nearly as useful in PvE, that possibly decently powerful to set up burst in PvP, or a little bit stronger version of Shadowfiend. I'd choose Dark Archangel. If Heroic Dragonsoul told me anything is that, for progression fights, Blizzard really likes forcing high burst phases.

    PS: sorry for my grammar and spelling.
    Heh, no worries, I didn't even notice.

    Moving on, my additions is that, for PvE, Shadow will be a lot more fun to play. Clunky mechanics are clunky. You're allowed to like them, but the majority hated Empowered Shadows. Evangelism was Shadow Weaving v1.5, which was basically another static buff, something Blizzard has been trying to move away from.

    Shadow Orbs being used for Devouring Plague give the spec a bit more of a dynamic playstyle (our current rotation is fairly static). It'll especially ramp up our execution damage (Double Shadow Word: Death alone gives two orbs, so you'll be using Devouring Plague more during execution than normal rotation, plus the damage that double SWDeath deals to begin with.

    Again, Mind Blast being altered by Hastes gives us a slightly more interesting base rotation than we've had in the past.

    IF you want a clunky rotation, you can bypass the talent cool downs and grab From Darkness, Comes Light, and Divine Insight, and your rotation can be entirely unpredictable and proccy.

    If you want a smooth rotation with a little bit of dynamic gameplay, pick up your two cool downs, and all you've got to worry about is Devouring Plague.

    All in all, I'm excited at the prospect of playing my Shadow Priest again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    I recommend shoulder surgery immediately... there's no way you didn't fuck it up with how hard you just reached.

  2. #22
    Friendly reminder to keep on topic and don't personally attack people.

  3. #23
    Yeah, seems like a troll just wanting to gloat, I'm also a fairly high ranked spriest, (not quite as high as Mr. know-it-all here, but judging by his armory, I've been playing a lot longer as well. Which is still completely irrelevant to his point.)

    Anyhow, Orbs and Dark Evangelism take skill in PvE Cata? I don't even know where to start on this. 4set t13 makes sure Shadow Empowerment has 100% up-time automatically, and even before that, it was a trivial mechanic at best, there has only been a handful of times where I had to hold a MB for orbs. As for Dark Evangelism, I'd like to know how exactly this is a skill based mechanic? Other than slightly modifying our opening rotation, and for a couple of seconds after Dark Archangel was used, it really did nothing, required no skill.

    As someone above me said, 'skill' also has very little to do with how you push your buttons (honestly, even when I'm lazy and don't bother to stack Dark Evangelism properly when starting a fight (Raid Finder/Old Content, etc.), the difference in my DPS is barely noticeable, as in a 2-3 digit change.) it's more so about how you're executing a fight, a heroic raider should know this already. And things like picking talents (especially when we have 2 tiers directly tied to our DPS) varying from fight to fight, testing them in these situations, and determining which will be the most useful for any given fight is going to take much more knowledge than reading an article on EJ stating how Dark Evangelism works.

    I know you're probably just going to demand that I relinquish all my armory links and parses from every raid I've done just to appease your superiority complex, and therefore "completely negate my opinion". But I will not be providing them as they are not relevant at all to this topic, nor will looking up my name on these forums grant any kind of relief for you, as I have never made a toon on WoW named Yulinora.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sataraism View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to link my armory and my rankings so ppl an see how awesome and right I am.
    Coming from somebody that ranks showing off a #6 rank on a multi-dot fight with movement is pretty nice, especially considering this thread is/was discussing the ease/difficulty of playing Shadow.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luml View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ol/Luml/simple

    Rank: 6
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...Shadow_Priest/

    don't get your point really.

    But your a pvp'er so most likely you will come up with pve is not skills and pvp is skills.
    I love how Cedrich didn't bother to reply to you once you linked your armory. Its not nice to call someone a liar as they are more successful than you are in pve/pvp.

    I think Shadow in MOP is also too casual friendly, basically it sounds like people would prefer one button which applies all dots at the perfect time and they never have to do anything else :s

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    I love how Cedrich didn't bother to reply to you once you linked your armory. Its not nice to call someone a liar as they are more successful than you are in pve/pvp.

    I think Shadow in MOP is also too casual friendly, basically it sounds like people would prefer one button which applies all dots at the perfect time and they never have to do anything else :s
    Don't see the point in replying to him. He doesn't exactly add a lot to the discussion. I'm not even sure what he doesn't get, since he doesn't provide any specifics. I haven't even said if I PvE or PvE (I do both) and I had no intention of saying anything of the sort he suggested. I don't care to look, but I doubt he's 'more successful' than me, and even if he is, I'm not the sort of person that will be impressed solely by that. His arguments don't carry any more weight just because he has an orange.

    At any rate, this thread isn't about me or luml, so this will be my final post on the subject.
    Last edited by mmocc88f087fc1; 2012-06-06 at 03:24 PM.

  7. #27
    >Shadow Orbs
    >"skill and challenge"

    You're confusing "skill and challenge" with bullshit RNG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  8. #28
    Deleted
    I am glad ES is gone too, but the orbs system to increase MS/MB was really nice, it allowed us to be viable on every fight this tier. I really liked when blizzard tried to implement it with each tic of MF boosting MB by 10%, but they dropped it very quickly and came back to MS proc to buff MB. I really dislike this talent.

    Cedrich, it is true Mindbender was our biggest dmg upgrade, but not so sure anymore with the cooldown being 3min instead of a 1min30-2min. So FDCL might be our biggest dmg increase...( I really hope not). If i can i would like to stick with mindbender, but I will go for what sims higher for progress;x

  9. #29
    Shadowpriest hasn't destroyed the Mists of Pandaria in any way?

    To answer his real concern though, meh. Mists of Pandaria hasn't destroyed Shadowpriest in any way.

  10. #30
    ACHTUNG!! DO NOT READ THIS POST! You're not supposed to read it, so Im not supposed to get infracted. Just a precaution to defend myself against those of you who play this "forum game".


    Just noticed Luml got infracted for his post, Im amazed, the shit contained within this wow community sure seems to be piling up. Posters with good experience that are making valid posts about their class and attempting to reach out to other competitive priest players should not be met with an infraction. If anyone gets offended by Luml holding several top 20 ranks, being a gladiator, etc., feel free to mind your own business outside of his thread, as it appears its not the place for you.

    A CM on the League of Legends forums once said: "I understand the frustration when it comes to players who join games purely to troll and ruin the enjoyment of the game, due to this relying strongly on a team performance the chances of trolls succeeding in games is 90%+ and this is what drives them to do so. They don't intent to win, they intend to wreck the game for everyone else, winning in their eyes. Which is sad, not on our behalf, but on theirs."

    If you are offended, I suggest uninstalling the game.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    Shadowpriest hasn't destroyed the Mists of Pandaria in any way?

    To answer his real concern though, meh. Mists of Pandaria hasn't destroyed Shadowpriest in any way.
    As a high-end pve'er can say its not destroyed, but merely rebuild differently into something else, especially regarding play-style (which of course might drive people who liked it).

    Personally I thought SP with T 13 bonuses would had perfected shadowpriest really. You have a strong aoe, on demand burst, not a selfkilling execute. orb problem rng was elevated as well. Just some minor tweaks and it was just spot on (like hymns not breaking sform and leap of faith, maybe a sort of skill for mtarget to increase maintarget damage). Now we have something new that requires alot of tinkering again, reinventing the wheel with all the scaling of crit/mastery and haste values.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jqar View Post
    ACHTUNG!! DO NOT READ THIS POST! You're not supposed to read it, so Im not supposed to get infracted. Just a precaution to defend myself against those of you who play this "forum game".


    Just noticed Luml got infracted for his post, Im amazed, the shit contained within this wow community sure seems to be piling up. Posters with good experience that are making valid posts about their class and attempting to reach out to other competitive priest players should not be met with an infraction. If anyone gets offended by Luml holding several top 20 ranks, being a gladiator, etc., feel free to mind your own business outside of his thread, as it appears its not the place for you.

    A CM on the League of Legends forums once said: "I understand the frustration when it comes to players who join games purely to troll and ruin the enjoyment of the game, due to this relying strongly on a team performance the chances of trolls succeeding in games is 90%+ and this is what drives them to do so. They don't intent to win, they intend to wreck the game for everyone else, winning in their eyes. Which is sad, not on our behalf, but on theirs."

    If you are offended, I suggest uninstalling the game.
    I agree, infraction for linking armoury is a little... harsh.

  13. #33
    If you guys have an issue with moderation on these boards, or a particular moderator, please send a detailed PM to Sunshine as to what's wrong. Posting about it here really is just leading the thread off topic.

    That said, please try to get back on track. Thanks.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    Just wanted to say something, ranking on 1 heroic fight (BH) while being the only proper multidotter (arcane mage and demo lock (???), fun stuff) doesnt automatically make you good. His PvE experience is impressive but trying to prove your point with a rank feels a bit asinine. Also, colour me unimpressed that he has a bunch of normal-mode ranks

    I'd like your honest answer though Luml, what part of the current RNG-based ES (which is pretty much eliminated with 4set anyways) do you find challenging? I'm not even close to anyting you can do on your shadow priest, but from what I understand the majority of SPriest'ing is just apply dots, MF, MB pretty much on CD. Balancing refreshing dots with procs etc will still be there in MoP afaik. Proper use of CDs and whatnot will still be there no? I like the previous example of crit, you dont consider yourself good if you get lucky and crit above the expected value do you?
    Last edited by mmoc241f3fedf6; 2012-06-06 at 09:53 PM.

  15. #35
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Been a shadow priest since vanilla and orbs going makes no difference since they were implemented i tended to just ignore them :S

    I only used the angel wings for mana for things such as mana void or when shadowfiend/ dispertion were on cooldown :S

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by m2geek View Post
    I liked having my 4 little buddies out while healing, not just standing there casting away solo like every other healing class.. They could have given shaman's an Tranq without destroying the overall Totem mechanic
    Little late to reply to this, but there's a minor glyph that keeps the appearance of the four little guys around you, if that's what you want. You can still keep them.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    Been a shadow priest since vanilla and orbs going makes no difference since they were implemented i tended to just ignore them :S

    I only used the angel wings for mana for things such as mana void or when shadowfiend/ dispertion were on cooldown :S
    Then you have been playing sub-optimally. Doesn't necessarily invalidate his point.



    I agree to a certain extent that an interesting part about shadow was the orbs mechanic. For people wondering how it was fun, do you guys remember the Theralion's Mirror proc? That was an extremely interesting part of T11 and the rotation, where being able to extend the effectiveness of that proc meant a large return in dps. Without the ES/Orbs mechanic that's gone.


    HOWEVER!

    I feel like MoP shadow is way, way more fun than it has ever been. Being able to choose between the t3 and t6 talents is amazing, and allows for a huge amount of differing rotations for shadow depending on the fight. The reduced CD on MB via haste is awesome, and being able to choose a proc reset allows for even more dynamic gameplay, which is awesome. In addition, the reduction of three dots to two is a very welcome change personally.
    We have the same number of DoTs to keep active when multi-dotting with the exception of DP on one target, which was a minor annoyance at best. Now, we simply keep two dots up on the targets and do our best to keep up with the influx of MB procs and as a result DP casts.

    Multi-dotting is way more fun and dynamic than it is now/was in the past, and the ability to handle keeping dots up along with MB casts and DP casts while doing so will greatly differentiate a great SP from a good one, and a good one from a bad one. The single target rotation is going to be significantly more dynamic with talent choices, and we have the option to pick up great CDs such as PI and Archangel and Mindbender.


    All in all I'm very happy with where they've taken shadow. Way moreso than Blizzards previous incarnations before this point.


    TL;DR: I agree to a certain extent with the OP that some of the fun will be disappearing, however I do think that we are getting a vastly greater number of fun and dynamic things added to our rotation in it's place. Net Gain in my opinion :P

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Brusalk, I am sorry but I really can't see how MoP is going to be better pve wise. Multi doting will essentially be One SWP on every target, because VT dmg is garbage( you'll maybe need to put two VT for mana, if its an issue).
    Haste reducing MB's cd is ok by itself, and I'm really not a fan of this concept, as we saw rets completely fail with it, but the fact that you have a talent that resets the cd of MB makes this cd reduction completely stupid.

    Also our mastery needs a real rework, I hate it with such a passion, It is worse than garbage(and I am not talking about the dmg output but the concept in itself).
    And there won't be a real choice in your talent, as Optimal build will emerge. Only the encounter will decide the talents you'll have to pick.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Dainwork View Post
    Just wanted to say something, ranking on 1 heroic fight (BH) while being the only proper multidotter (arcane mage and demo lock (???), fun stuff) doesnt automatically make you good. His PvE experience is impressive but trying to prove your point with a rank feels a bit asinine. Also, colour me unimpressed that he has a bunch of normal-mode ranks

    I'd like your honest answer though Luml, what part of the current RNG-based ES (which is pretty much eliminated with 4set anyways) do you find challenging? I'm not even close to anyting you can do on your shadow priest, but from what I understand the majority of SPriest'ing is just apply dots, MF, MB pretty much on CD. Balancing refreshing dots with procs etc will still be there in MoP afaik. Proper use of CDs and whatnot will still be there no? I like the previous example of crit, you dont consider yourself good if you get lucky and crit above the expected value do you?
    I happen to disagree with this statement, Luml was responding to a poster that doubted his pve/pvp experience and so he gave his armory and his best ranking fight. FYI it is not just one fight this priest ranks on, it's many, and pretty high ranks. I for one happen to respect such high ranks since I rank as well (not as high in top 10 or anything liek that) and believe they show a proficiency in the PVE aspect of the game. Basically,...if you are having a PVE discussion and somebody weighs in with very high ranks, they may know what they're talking about.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Greywardenn View Post
    I happen to disagree with this statement, Luml was responding to a poster that doubted his pve/pvp experience and so he gave his armory and his best ranking fight. FYI it is not just one fight this priest ranks on, it's many, and pretty high ranks. I for one happen to respect such high ranks since I rank as well (not as high in top 10 or anything liek that) and believe they show a proficiency in the PVE aspect of the game. Basically,...if you are having a PVE discussion and somebody weighs in with very high ranks, they may know what they're talking about.
    No. Shadow is moving in a good direction. I don't believe having a high rank bring any credibility or clout behind a players words expecially when acting like he is a god among internet video game players. I may not have a high ranking spriest but honestly I could care less since I play with friends.

    Anyway I have just as much experience with shadow as luml and I disagree. Alot of the time rankings comes down to being fed buffs, getting certain drops and just rng happening to pan out.I am not doubting that the OP is a good solid spriest and hell probably better than I BUT this game is not about seperating the wheat from the chaff and it is about having fun playing your class.

    If you want to be recognized and think the class is too easy thats your opinion but no matter what the 1% of spriests do not really affect the overall design of the class. The class is designed to be better and a bit easier for anyone to play. That is what affects the most players so that is why design direction follows that pattern.

    The RNG has been increased but ES was always just something of an annoyance. Relying on an orb proc until DS where it became much easier with the gear step up and 4pc was always annoying to reallystart my rotation.

    Anyway I have played since vanilla wow and shadow has only improved from each expansion. In Vanilla it was trash, BC you were just a mana battery, wrath was ok but very bland, cata things improved with adding DP to all priests and mastery, now we have even more cooldowns and procs to track. Spriest has only gotten better.

    Cata spriest: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Zipples/simple
    Vanilla priest: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Xipplez/simple

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