Mistweaver Monk Guide

[Nostradamuz]

Can anyone confirm or deny if any of these are bugs or just MW's being broken right now:

1- Spells that grant mana tea are giving me 2 mana teas instead of 1 (floating combat text says I am getting 1 though).

2- Vital Mists and Serpents Zeal seems bugged as well ... after I Tiger Palm 5x I get Vital Mists which gives my Surging Mists a 100% chance to not cost any mana but if I cast Surging Mists with Soothing Mists at the same time while Vital Mists is active I can cast Surging Mists indefinitely on that target (or any target as long as I am casting Soothing Mists).

Serpents Zeal just seems to be healing for a lot considering how often I can melee.

3- Glyph of Surging Mists wasn't working for me during BETA testing but assuming it is now ... with 5x stacks of Vital Mists I can cast Surging Mists during Soothing Mists indefintely while healing the lowest person. I think this can be a way to aoe heal when they fix (maybe by having every surging mists cast while channeling Soothing mists just cost 1 stack of Vital Mists making you have to get stacks again via melee dmg.)

[Dahakas]

I don't even feel like we're capable of healing the raid testing with the current state of of MW, it is just horrible.

[Tatuin]

I don't even feel like we're capable of healing the raid testing with the current state of of MW, it is just horrible.

Yea and if we do as GC said aand not use ZS its even harder

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 12:14 PM ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KiuzBAsHuU

Brave of these guys. But its really sad for MWs overall. i recommend all MWs to watch this

[Dahakas]

For those who haven't seen the video that was posted, on here and the beta forums, it just pretty much proves what everyone already thought. Basically it was brave of that guild/group to take a mistweaver healer, let alone 2. But as you can clearly see they are about half as much as any other healer atm, clearly an example that GC and staff have no understanding of how to balance this class.

The even SADDER part of the video is how many useless healing orbs are spread around the raid. GG on a completely useless mastery.

[Redfern]

My thoughts on that video:

Chi Waves used: 2
Chi Torpedos used: 1
Eminence Healing: 0
Renewing Mists on CD? No.


You're judging Mistweavers by 1 fight, with absolutely no raid damage before the wipe (on that video), and still then only ends up slightly behind the Holy Paladin whilst not using his abilities the best he/she could?


If we can link useless things to prove stuff then I'll go ahead and contribute too, I can't link the video itself because it's unlisted (We did Meng first, Sabutai had just recently joined the fight:



Monks are fine; spamming Soothing Mists alone will not get you far.




Also Dahakas, did YOU test last night? I mean after telling me to "play the class before I comment" I assume you do too, before commenting like that.

[ChrisKoe]

The even SADDER part of the video is how many useless healing orbs are spread around the raid. GG on a completely useless mastery.

And the saddest part would be that people infer that MW Monks are bad from seeing a video of a MW Monk beeing played bad.

[Dahakas]

Oh how the blizzard fan boys have came out. Clearly they never do anything wrong.

First of all you just don't understand class balance and design to be happy with the state of monks atm. Here is a clue - YES THEY ARE BAD ATM.

Also the fact is one of them used Zen Sphere which is pretty laughable since that is going to get nerfed pretty hard in the next build. But at the same time watching them hard cast enveloping mists did make me cringe.

Atm we only really have single target heals - Soothing and Enveloping (not counting zen sphere since that is about to be changed greatly), and a very nerfed HoT that SOMETIMES spreads. ....That is it. Other things like Surging is way to punishing to use, and using Chi Torpedo as a legit heal is a joke.

Even with the current spells there are they own problems. - Soothing just flat out doesn't heal for much, it is more about the Chi generation and the ability to insta cast Enveloping mists for then the actual healing itself since the recent nerf. This coupled with the fact for it to be effective at all you have to be near our 3 min CD Statue.

And Redfern - it is pretty evident you are in the eminence healing crowd, and if you are happy with its current state then good for you. However the traditional healing is very far off from where it needs to be - in functionality and versatility (IE no raid healing capabilities)

[Redfern]

I'm speechless; Eminence healing crowd? Really? It counts for 15-20% of my total healing, I use all of the 'traditional' healing abilities required and I use make use of almost everything I can that Monks have, like how it should be.

and using Chi Torpedo as a legit heal is a joke.

It heals for a good amount, and requires the raid to be stacked to gain full effectiveness - how are you dismissing it as a 'legit heal'? Just because it's not one of the 'traditional' heals that you're used to does NOT mean it shouldn't be used in such ways.

Renewing Mists spreads to injured people; I've noticed it spreading from just as much as buffing Stats/Stamina.

I came into this thread and added my input on a new class/spec build that wasn't tested yet and the first thing that happens is that I get shot down. I even replied to the responses with reasons why I disagreed, I also said at the start that these were my opinions on Mistweaver Monks and they may or may not be true.

I don't know about you, but after actually TESTING, they do seem on par with other healers.


Here's a screenshot of all of our Will of the Emperor logs from last night:



And also my healing breakdown:




I can't link the actual logs since they're private, but take from it what you will. I've given my opinions and quite frankly I think I'll just leave it there; this has gotten out of hand.

[Malthanis]

Thanks for the numbers and info, Redfern. It's a good snapshot of where monks are right now.

Now I just have to decide if I want to finish leveling my Druid, or wait for my Monk, to decide which healer I play.

[MixelPlx]

Good stuff Redfern.
I kept getting that error that's been floating around, not allowing me to test the encounter.

As for the bashing in this thread, lets try and keep things a bit more constructive.

If you have a problem with the design of Mistweavers, please take your concern to the beta class section of the official forums.

Judging by that video, x2 MW isn't functional anymore(and shouldn't be IMO).
Not to bash whoever recorded the video but that is a bad example of how to judge the class and specialization.
Player wasn't using a number of things(Previously listed before);

• Renewing Mists: 0
• Eminence healing(Yes, CJL or melee is viable depending on other healers): 0
• Chi Waves: 2
• Chi Torpedo: 1

As for the Chi Torpedo fix, I'm glad its actually healing for more than 2-3k(healing for in previous builds) and will prove to be useful in some fights. Remember, the new talent system was built around changing talent choices on a per boss basis if required.

I think people fail to realize we are a healer capable of playing the traditional healing role but also the ability to do damage->heals also.
Sure it might not be viable in some fights but the fact the option is there for us to use is awesome enough.

Lets not forget, this is beta and nothing is final till they shut down beta servers. So lets not all start jumping off the cliff just yet.

[Dahakas]

Redfern, except your logs are very inaccurate since you have a lot of time listed outside of the raid encounter. ...20% in fact.

And yes Chi Torpedo is a gimmick heal. Only good for very limited situations....It's free so it has that going for it, but realistically Xuen will probably be better for a raid healing CD since Blizz wants it to work with Eminence.

And even looking at your logs pretty much all you did was use soothing and renewing mists and Chi Wave to burn Chi. (Although Enveloping would have been a greater use of Chi in relation to how much they each heal for)

Realistically you didn't do much and I'd love to see the logs at what the Pally was doing to be so awful. Although both him and the other monk had more HPS then you did, although take away your extra 20% and idk they would have done more healing in comparison possibly.

[Malthanis]

Okay, a second time, in big red mod text: cut the bashing. It's not helpful or constructive.

If you have numbers that show a more effective healing style than what Redfern has displayed, Dahakas, please provide them to back up your statements. Otherwise, your statements look overly critical and flimsy.

...clearly an example that GC and staff have no understanding of how to balance this class.

This in particular bothers me. They're a brand new class and healing style, and it's still beta. They're working on balance, and it will be a bit harder to get right since it's so different from other healing styles.

[Tatuin]

The MW did use ReM 2 times. But not on CD that im would do.

Redfren if it would be possible could we get a screenshot of a log for one of the attempts on the fight? Just 1 fight so see how you did? An overall healing log arent any good use for me atm.

I can say i didnt test it yday so im glad other ppl do it and helping blizz to figur this class out.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 06:06 PM ----------

It is probely wrong to have this viedo as a mark for how MWs are doing but i havent found any other MWs PoV for this first hc fight.

But i wouldnt have played like he did. That iknow

[Redfern]

You're right about the inaccuracy of the logs, my fault there; I'll try and splice logs from future bosses and deliver here after testing.

[Tatuin]

You're right about the inaccuracy of the logs, my fault there; I'll try and splice logs from future bosses and deliver here after testing.

That would be kind of you

[Redfern]

Zen Sphere on Dex. Also looking back it seems there's a good couple of seconds of gas damage before combat starts, that's why we're all above 100% active.





The length of the tries is pretty weak, hopefully future Heroic testing gives longer and more reliable logs.

[Dahakas]

If you have numbers that show a more effective healing style than what Redfern has displayed, Dahakas, please provide them to back up your statements. Otherwise, your statements look overly critical and flimsy.

Obviously I don't have to since I already pointed out the logs were inaccurate.

This in particular bothers me. They're a brand new class and healing style, and it's still beta. They're working on balance, and it will be a bit harder to get right since it's so different from other healing styles.

You are kidding right? Honestly by the nerfs it looks like 2 teams worked on them with no communication between them, each tackling an aspect of the MW without thinking about how each of those would interact. In it's pre-nerf state a lot of people liked the general play style of the monk however with the changes this play style was broken and now plays disjuncted and lacks flow. Instead of the obvious way to "nerf" us by bring our numbers down instead of trying to re-work mechanics.

Malthanis, I get that you are a moderator but having different opinions on the direction of the class is more constructive then everyone agreeing that Blizz' current direction with the class is always right. Difference of opinion in it's essence is what breeds a constructive conversation and in particular I've pointed out more flaws and ways to fix it in this thread then anyone else.

And yes, it is beta. The point is for people to be informed and vocal with the direction of the class. Both here and the blizz forums so we do not go into live like our current state.

---------- Post added 2012-07-18 at 11:34 AM ----------

Red, is there anyway to see Dex for that fight to see how much of that is Zen Sphere.

[Radux]

Red, is there anyway to see Dex for that fight to see how much of that is Zen Sphere.

I wouldn't even look too much into it. Blizzard already said it was still too powerful and would be toned down.

Malthanis, I get that you are a moderator but having different opinions on the direction of the class is more constructive then everyone agreeing that Blizz' current direction with the class is always right. Difference of opinion in it's essence is what breeds a constructive conversation and in particular I've pointed out more flaws and ways to fix it in this thread then anyone else.

You're right that having differing opinions on matters can be a good thing. However, the difference here is that some people that are ok with changes, are providing evidence showing that things are fine, while another side isn't. They're mostly just crying at nerfs without actually providing feedback as to why things were changed in an inappropriate/incorrect manner.

It's fine to be critical of balance, but it also gets a little tiresome to hear doom & gloom when there's evidence out there showing it's not nearly as bad as the QQer's are making it out to be.

[Dahakas]

I wouldn't even look too much into it. Blizzard already said it was still too powerful and would be toned down.

The point is to see how much of his healing on that fight WAS Zen Sphere, ..an ability we all know is going to get nerfed (possibly heavily)

[Redfern]

Red, is there anyway to see Dex for that fight to see how much of that is Zen Sphere.

Also Zen Sphere's damage that contributes to Eminence: