Anyone else worried about Ret AoE?

[antigravitydogs]

Sorry if there's been a large increase in Divine Storm Dmg very recently, but from what I've seen so far in Beta footage, it seems to me like a very weak AoE finisher. I doubt we'll be able to do competitive AoE dmg like this. Seems like there hasn't been an increase in DS dmg since its change to a finisher, looking at beta footage. Any rets in the beta mind telling me I shouldnt have anything to worry about? :P

[Deleted]

I agree with you here. So far it's very weak and atm you would want to have about 6+ mobs around you to make SoR even viable. I'm just going to assume Blizz already knows and will be changing it.

[Deleted]

Geez, it's only been stated a billion times by Blizzard that damage isn't final. I wouldn't worry at all untill MoP, atleast aslong as the mechanics work right, but if they don't, I would be worried.

[Deleted]

were they level 90 chars in lvl 90 blues?
were they doing the proper aoe rotation as it's stil slightly unknown which of the final tier of talents is going to be used for aoe
ie keep the single target one or switch to one of the others.
all numbers can change very easily.
with leveling gear Mastery and weapon damg will be low. mastery procs from the divine storm so a portion of it's damg is hidden if you look at only the damg the storm did.

[Deleted]

were they level 90 chars in lvl 90 blues?
were they doing the proper aoe rotation as it's stil slightly unknown which of the final tier of talents is going to be used for aoe
ie keep the single target one or switch to one of the others.
all numbers can change very easily.
with leveling gear Mastery and weapon damg will be low. mastery procs from the divine storm so a portion of it's damg is hidden if you look at only the damg the storm did.

^Pro post right there.
Atm i can't really complain i am loving how ret is levelling up on BETA, and as stated before damage is not really final.

[Keyur]

retribution don't have aoe since cata...only protection spec have...

[Deleted]

They could buff our Seal system..


Seal of Justice: 10% > 15% (If you want Slow)

Seal of Truth: 14% > 25% (If you want Damage)

Seal of Righteousness: 5% > 13% (If you want AoE)

Seal of Insight: Healing Increas Gained 5% > 15%(Ret ONLY, Holy will remain the same) and giving all direct damage a chance to heal you for (120% of Spellpower) and restore 4% of base mana. (If you want to go Defensive) - I mean Warrior have Defensive stance, DK have Blood Presence.. Seal of Insight Could be Ret paladin's "Defensive stance" and we still have to hit something to get the healing.

[UnderworldSoup]

Are we talking adapting the current AoE rotation into Mists of Pandaria using Seal of Righteousness and Divine Storm, or the newer rotation they've introduced including Hammer of the Righteous? That is, assuming that move wasn't taken away during the beta already -- it's been a while since I've messed around with it.

The numbers themselves are nowhere close to final and even in 90 dungeon gear may feel weak. That's not to say that in raid gear it will be weak however.

[anaxie]

Everyone forgot about Hammer of Rightious. HURKA DUR. We have aoe, it's just not as good as no HP DS. Stupid DS costs HP atall tho.

[kosechi]

they need to take seals off the gcd to make the truth> righteousness swap smoother.

ret aoe is pitiful right now and it still looks fairly clumsy in mop.

[Ssateneth]

they need to take seals off the gcd to make the truth> righteousness swap smoother.

ret aoe is pitiful right now and it still looks fairly clumsy in mop.

They do that, and may as well make stance dance macros. That is not what blizzard wants. Changing your "stance" should be a decision.

[Xanda]

Is it only me that finds AOE really strong? I mean, with a 390 weapon, i crit 12k with Hammer and 39k with divine storm.

[kosechi]

They do that, and may as well make stance dance macros. That is not what blizzard wants. Changing your "stance" should be a decision.

you say that like seal twisting on your weapon swing didn't used to seperate the good rets from the bad ones. do i have to break out the slayton videos again?

looking over one of my h madness kills i've got a total of 14 seal swaps over the course of the whole fight, thats 14 wasted gcds, probably more since i'm hardly top100 material and still get caught in gcds from other abilities like a noob.

ret aoe is atrocious and the fact that we have to waste gcds swapping seals back and forth is a part of it. taking the seals off the gcd would streamline the process a lot.

seals are not 'stances' we are not warriors, our action bars do not change when we swap a seal, it simply changes the effect our weapon swings have, not give us access to different abilities depending on what seal we are sitting in.

a closer approximation of the truth> righteousness swap would be sweeping strikes or blade flurry. which if i'm not mistaken are both off the gcd.


not to mention seal swapping in pvp for SoJ is a whole other mess i won't get into.



also.
learning how to use macros is part of good play, if you don't know how to use them then i think should probably find a game that doesn't support them.

[Deleted]

you say that like seal twisting on your weapon swing didn't used to seperate the good rets from the bad ones. do i have to break out the slayton videos again?

looking over one of my h madness kills i've got a total of 14 seal swaps over the course of the whole fight, thats 14 wasted gcds, probably more since i'm hardly top100 material and still get caught in gcds from other abilities like a noob.

ret aoe is atrocious and the fact that we have to waste gcds swapping seals back and forth is a part of it. taking the seals off the gcd would streamline the process a lot.

seals are not 'stances' we are not warriors, our action bars do not change when we swap a seal, it simply changes the effect our weapon swings have, not give us access to different abilities depending on what seal we are sitting in.

a closer approximation of the truth> righteousness swap would be sweeping strikes or blade flurry. which if i'm not mistaken are both off the gcd.


not to mention seal swapping in pvp for SoJ is a whole other mess i won't get into.


also.
learning how to use macros is part of good play, if you don't know how to use them then i think should probably find a game that doesn't support them.

You keep saying wasted gcds on and on and on, they weren't wasted when you swapped to another seal to output more damage. Wasted would be if you sit over an entire gcd without doing nothing at all.
Ret aoe is in a very good spot, just because we're not the best doesn't mean it's bad. The one thing ret is really lacking is cleave damage, not aoe or single target.

[Boran]

Ret AoE still feels very lackluster even with Righteousness, DS and HotR, and that's at 90 with the new 483 PvP epics, but like others have said, none of the numbers are final.

[underdogba]

They do that, and may as well make stance dance macros. That is not what blizzard wants. Changing your "stance" should be a decision.

They could give it a reduced GCD like 0.5 seconds, which will alleviate much of the concerns about lost GCDs, while at the same time preventing the macro system from allowing stance dance macros.

[Lumineus]

Beta Divine Storm hits decently hard right now, actually; it's even worth using over TV as a two target cleave. Although the loss of the scaling heal is going to make soloing old content a drag, so I still hate it. Holy Prism isn't bad either, but the damage doesn't justify the cooldown, and it's basically your only option for unstealthing things too, which sucks. Pretty sure it hits harder for Holy than it does for Ret too because of only scaling from spellpower, which is WTFLOL.

Hammer of the Righteous and Seal of Righteousness are worthless though. HotR becomes worth using at about six mobs, so it's useless on all trash, and out of the major Cata encounters, only useful on Yor'sahj, Madness, and Sinestra, possibly Halfus depending on your strat, and a smidgen of potential on Council of Wind but only in 25-man and then only on Anschal's platform. SoR clocks in over Truth at roughly 10-11 mobs which is just comical, maybe less if they don't have enough HP to juggle Censure but even then, Justice (yes, Justice, never mind Truth or The American Way) does just as much damage on three mobs, and you're probably still looking at five or six before bothering to switch.

And yes, about switching, I am really disappointed that seals are back on the GCD. It would be one thing if other classes with weapon imbues had to change theirs to AoE, and it cost them a GCD, but they don't (they even removed offhand damage poisons so Rogues don't have to switch them out to offer Shiv-based utility). Never mind the damage of Seal of Righteousness is so low at this point anyway, the damage conferred is never worth the GCD to cast, so they might as well roll it into something else and remove the spell from the game altogether.

[Deleted]

I feel people may be giving Blizzard too much credit when they basically say "Don't worry about it, damage numbers not final, balancing happens later". Yeah, remember no competitive aoe until 4.2? Competitive single target DPS until 4.3? It's never too soon to give balancing feedback.

[Deleted]

I feel people may be giving Blizzard too much credit when they basically say "Don't worry about it, damage numbers not final, balancing happens later". Yeah, remember no competitive aoe until 4.2? Competitive single target DPS until 4.3? It's never too soon to give balancing feedback.

What are you talking about? Retribution has been competetive single target since they changed our mastery in the beginning of Cataclysm. Aslong as the mechanics work right, you shouldn't be too worried. Damage isn't final and it won't be before launch.
Untill damage numbers are final and it is stated by Blizzard that this is the way they want the damage to be, we cannot give any other feedback but things like "This mechanic is not working as intended, or this mechanic is totally gimped or stupid or whatever you name it".

[Deleted]

Now that you mentioned it, they hotfixed us somewhere in the middle of patch 4.2 by buffing Censure if I remember correctly. Even then a flat 10% buff to Blessing of Might was needed for all melees. But until then we were the second worst dps class (poor enhancement shamans). So yeah, that's how long it takes until Blizzard acknowledges discrepancies once they're live.