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  1. #1

    Core reason why WoW dies

    Saw this post by GC, and finally, there it is, the core reason why the game sucks. The reason why I will never play it again and why the game will never be great again.

    If I was the game designer, I would move heaven and earth, close down the servers and spend whatever time, money, and resources needed to redo the math to fix this fundamental flaw in the game. This reason alone is what kills all the fun of leveling, of progressing, of the essential joy found in the game.

    CG - reply to a rogue concern:

    "Play speed - the real issue here is the game design that requires us to reset player power to a large extent every expansion. I'll go ahead and call it a design flaw, because I think it is, but it's also a really difficult one to address and have WoW still feel like WoW. Our reward system is structured around continually offering more powerful gear, yet our combat mechanics begin to break down when say your crit chance approaches 100% and your haste becomes so high that you can fill every GCD. It's fine if say crit chance is 70% at the final tier of content, but that means we have to start every expansion with small crit chances (or have lame upgrades). It absolutely sucks though to see your combat ratings plummet when you gain a level (which is supposed to be a fun, exciting thing that you want to do). We'd love to come up with a solution where you feel more powerful at 86 than you did at 85, but math works against us. The only silver lining is that when you get to level 90 and accrue some good gear, you'll start to feel like your old self again. We'll keep trying to come up with something better."



    This makes me so sad. They knew this problem, let it fester and kill their game. I want to play again, and am in constant lurking mode looking for something to replace the joy, whether it is back in Wow or another game. Sadly this problem is found in many similar venues, and they too struggle to deal with the math so their players don't get sucked into this black hole.

    * * *

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Eis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    I feel like the gear reset from vanilla -> BC and BC -> WotLK weren't quite as bad as WotLK -> Cata and Cata -> MoP will be.

    In BC, t3 was still pretty good going into t4 raids. There wasn't a complete 100% gear reset, as some could carry over. Same thing happened from BC to WotLK, I went into t7 wearing a lot of t6/Sunwell. For Cata though.. quest greens blew away my heroic ICC gear at 84. This is probably the core of the issue, that the expansion resets are getting much more drastic for everyone.

    When you give everyone the good gear every patch, you can't just ease into the expansion gear reset the same way BC and WotLK did, because then nobody is replacing gear. It feels like a reset is happening with every patch rather than expansion, which is more the reality of this issue than what GC has to say about it.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    I don't even know anymore.
    It's an understandable frustration though it's never bothered me personally. However considering you're literally maybe the 3rd person I've ever seen use this as their reason to quit I'm gonna have to call bullshit it on it being a "Core" reason. I wouldn't even call it one of the major reasons.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  4. #4
    So in your opinion wow isnt great anymore and its dying.. ok ...

    Did it really need another thread on the subject?

  5. #5
    It's not like there is a black and white answer for this problem either. Say they lowered the reset value back to the days of TBC and Wrath. People clear the first tier using their old gear from the previous expansion in MoP. Do you honestly believe that there would not be a HUGE outcry against blizzard (the usual 'lazy' 'bad design' and 'wow is now dead' talk) stating that they were too lazy to make new gear etc etc etc. It's a design flaw with the entire MMO business, not just WoW. Hell it's the same with any video game that has a sequel. They can't have the hero have the ability to destroy the planet at the beginning of the game now can they? What's the point of even having a story/plot if you can just destroy anything in your path on level 1?

  6. #6
    Everything is fine,move along sir.

  7. #7
    HOW do you solve it, though?

    It's not an error in the math, it's an error in the fundamental design of the game, and arguably the genre. In order to make progression between tiers relevant, they have to increase stats on gear - otherwise, you're not getting stronger as the expansion moves along. But if they don't reset it and just allow you to continually gain in strength, then we would have hit 100% crit, enough haste to have you casting below the GCD, overcapped hit/expertise 2 expansions ago. By now, the only possible upgrades for gear would be "more str/agi/int", and that doesn't make for a very interesting game.

    The only possible solution is to reset secondary stats. If anyone has a better one, I'd love to hear it.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Fur Play's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Cardiff, South Wales.

    Another one of these threads?

    WoW has 10 million active subscribers. If that's dead, I'm a shoe.

    I'm certainly not a shoe.

  9. #9
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    The Overthere, Tunare
    Its why Samus always lost her shit at the start of each game. If you got to play a Metroid sequel with the entire kit from the previous game, there would be basically nothing to obtain.

    Sometimes it makes more sense for your abilities/equipment to break/be taken.

    Imagine Megaman II with all of the cannons from Megaman I. And so on and so forth.

    Gear resets are nothing new. Sure, it wouldn't have needed to be as extreme as in WoW. For example, in EQ every level my skills increased by 5, and it was noticable. We still frequently raided old content, because gear was useful from many sources, even across expansions in some cases. But that also caused gear to be less important.

    You really can't have it both ways. Your new gear can't be very powerful without your old gear being unviable by then. It would have been nice to not see greens supplant "phat purpz", but some had to go. I kept my tier bonus until I started getting blues at least in cataclysm, and that's probably the best you can hope for.

  10. #10
    This part of the conversation is referring to the leveling experience. That you will feel less powerful @ 86 then you did @ 85, in order for damage/healing to stay under control as the expansion matures. The time it takes me to re-cap with each expansion is infinitesimal compared to time I am capped. I'm sure it's similar for you. Never mind that you will again feel more powerful a few short hours later, as you rise to level 87. Plus, the whole affair will stop in 5 short levels. No reason for alarm.

    Leveling a new character, that hasn't spent a year or more perfecting gear, will not feel the same effect. So it's a short lived, focused, choice to made to keep fully geared, capped players within the design parameters. Look past the momentary "feeling" and see the end goal, and this will not feel like a such a burden.

  11. #11
    I dont get what the guys is getting at exactly, so he wants to stay as powerfull as he felt in his high end heroic raid gear while lvling up for a new expansion?, or does he not want new expansions at all or maybe new ones, but with no lvling and just new raids/dungeons.

    The core flaw is that your gear becomes obsolete when a new expansion is released?.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    So in your opinion wow isnt great anymore and its dying.. ok ...

    Did it really need another thread on the subject?

    Why do people feel the need to explain why they "will never play WoW again"? Just quit playing and leave it at that.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Shibuya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Over 10 million subscribers, more than the population of a lot of small countries, wow is dying.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! MasterHamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Land of the mighty moose, polar bears and fika.
    Come on, you have to do better than that.

    Like how pandas or warlocks being able to offtank will ruin the game.
    Oh boo hoo
    Players ask for everything to be faster, easier and completely optional and then when they get bored they can't understand why.

  15. #15
    Yes, the sentiment in GC's post sucks.

    However, the real reason this MMO will fall from glory is on the other side of the statement.
    The playerbase has refused to give up old notions of the game, adapt to the MMO and what it offers including the additional free-time you get by not having to dedicate so much time to it anymore unless you choose to. The playerbase and it's reception of change for the past expansion and now MoP is almost childlike. It may be cliche, but even my reaction sometimes to the changes to the game is overdone and unnecessary so I may be a cause of the problem, but the playerbase needs to grow up. It's 7 years on, WoW servers are still accessible and you have been given the chance to enjoy what you like about the game and have more free time. If you really enjoy nothing that is present in the game, you have even more free time than that and need to take a more active approaching in scoping out new hobbies.

  16. #16
    WoW would have died something like 4 years ago if there were no gear resets. When everyone hit 100% crit, minimum cast time and so forth, everyone would have said "this is awesome" for about a month followed by "this is BORING" until the end of time.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans MrApple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    This thread should be closed like all the other million threads about how much wow sucks and how bad it is.

    People who hate the game so much should just stop playing and most of all; STOP making threads about how bad the game is that you arent even playing any more.

    The game is currently more or less in a slope since most people are waiting for the expansion and playing around with other games. Its far from dead and it will probably
    not die in a few more years to come. MoP for instance will be awesome and im looking forward to it alot.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    The Eternal Alchemy
    It felt pretty shitty to have my Heroic Firelands gear replaced with LFR gear. Not the main reason I quit by a long shot, there were quite a few contributing factors, but yeah it sucked.

  19. #19
    GC has a huge point.

    Just imagine if the gear gains weren't so huge. Imagine if all the content they had produced over the life of this game were still relevant, and continued to be for the rest of the game's life.

  20. #20
    It smacks of desperation, at least to me, that one would have to lurk around the forums of a game they no longer enjoy. The only constant in life is change. Even if you stand still, you are sliding backwards as the world goes on. So be kind to yourself. Find another game and delve into it to find the old joy you say WoW is lacking. Or come back to WoW and play it without judgement. You might find its still tons of fun.
    In God we trust...all others we track!

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