SWTOR Free to Play ?

[kenn9530]

there are alot of new things in MoP, one the challenge thing is rather cool, if you want hard content you do them, they are for the hardcore player.

Id say Tor pvp is nothing more than stun, stun, stun an knockbacks, and the classes are far from balanced, the combat is just the same as wow apart from swtor does not have an auto attack, my sith mara was 100% the same as my arms warrior in wow, even down to how my skilled worked its almost like bioware copy and pasted wow warriors into the game.

datacrons are nice, if you are body type 1-2 and can get them all, they have yet to fix a few that cant be got by body type 3s.

If Tor had everything it needed to keep the players happy then it would not have lost over 1 million subs in under 7 months.. period.

only compay to say sub model is the thing of the past is EA and swtor is the reason why as they dont want more egg on there face.

challenge mode is just another illusion to create more content, i done glory of the cataclysm raider in blues the first few weeks cata was out, once you have the knowledge of the encounters nothing is a challenge for long.

ToR PvP is way more balanced than WoW has ever been, 2 players of equal gear and skill in ToR means an even chance, same doesnt apply in WoW it mainly depends on the class you are if skill are gear are matched.

I said as ToR stands now it has everything is needs, yes it has taken some time to iron out but 6 months is not a bad time frame, players have unrealistic ideas and want things now when it takes time to get things done, maybe if ToR waited 6 more months it may of held onto more subs but who knows if all the current features now in play would of been there, its better to get the community to say what they want.

WoW is pretty much the only only sub option game around, WoW has maybe one/two at most expansions left in it.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure Valve, Riot and ANET all say sub model (the old school version WoW/TOR is using now) is thing of the past. Only reason Blizz can afford to sustain WoW with the quality of service they offer is lack of capable competitors. Once those emerge the 80% plus profit margin on WoW will be hard burden to carry for Blizz.

you just said it your self

"capable competitors"

untill a company stops trying to reskin WoW and put there lable on it, which is really what Bioware did with Swtor, and they come out with a new way for doing things that pushing the mmo gene forward not backwards, lets face it if you copy WoW your moving backwards. Then and only then can they challenge Blzzard, if they do that and roll out a free to play model then it will be the new standard for mmos, untill then you have to try and keep up with blizzard.

Anet have a good idear with B2P, but you need to make sure the game is worth the £39 before you buy it becuase unlike xbox games at the same price, you cant trade in PC games.

---------- Post added 2012-08-09 at 02:32 PM ----------

challenge mode is just another illusion to create more content, i done glory of the cataclysm raider in blues the first few weeks cata was out, once you have the knowledge of the encounters nothing is a challenge for long.

ToR PvP is way more balanced than WoW has ever been, 2 players of equal gear and skill in ToR means an even chance, same doesnt apply in WoW it mainly depends on the class you are if skill are gear are matched.

I said as ToR stands now it has everything is needs, yes it has taken some time to iron out but 6 months is not a bad time frame, players have unrealistic ideas and want things now when it takes time to get things done, maybe if ToR waited 6 more months it may of held onto more subs but who knows if all the current features now in play would of been there, its better to get the community to say what they want.

WoW is pretty much the only only sub option game around, WoW has maybe one/two at most expansions left in it.

i beg to differ

my hunter at lvl 10 in all non stat gear (white) soloed 5 full loomed players

and Tors pvp suffers from gear imbalance just like wow does, the grind to warlord gear is horrid, yes they give you free pvp gear once you hit 50 (blizzard dont do this) but recruit - warlord... warlord wins 99% of the time, no matter what skill the other player has

also on wow life span i do belive Chris metzen said in the MoP announcment at blizzcon, "years to come"
here is a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAz1_xskFZ0

[Deleted]

Pretty sure Valve, Riot and ANET all say sub model (the old school version WoW/TOR is using now) is thing of the past. Only reason Blizz can afford to sustain WoW with the quality of service they offer is lack of capable competitors. Once those emerge the 80% plus profit margin on WoW will be hard burden to carry for Blizz.

Also its worth noting that less then 50% of WoWs actual player base use the subscription model, add in a good chunk of their money for wow actually comes from microtransactions, and its proof the leader in the market isnt strictly subscription base themselves.

you could only probably look at EVE and Rift that are truely subscription based games, and theres newer ones for sure such as TSW but i wouldnt plan on them being subscription based for their lifetimes.

[Repefe]

you just said it your self

"capable competitors"

untill a company stops trying to reskin WoW and put there lable on it, which is really what Bioware did with Swtor, and they come out with a new way for doing things that pushing the mmo gene forward not backwards, lets face it if you copy WoW your moving backwards. Then and only then can they challenge Blzzard, if they do that and roll out a free to play model then it will be the new standard for mmos, untill then you have to try and keep up with blizzard.

Anet have a good idear with B2P, but you need to make sure the game is worth the £39 before you buy it becuase unlike xbox games at the same price, you cant trade in PC games.

I think even WoW copies can push the genre forward. There is plenty of room to make the old model better. The pvp model in MMORPGs is in sorry state and nobody seems to care (we shall see ANET ). The raiding is stucked in middle ages both encounter wise and progression wise (we shall see ANET and Trion). Questing ... do copy TSW please. Plenty of room to make EQ 3.0 where WoW is EQ 2.0.

[Faroth]

WoW is pretty much the only only sub option game around, WoW has maybe one/two at most expansions left in it.

Have to say, I find this statement hilarious. Thinking WoW can't survive as long as the original EverQuest is simply laughable.

[kenn9530]

you just said it your self

"capable competitors"

untill a company stops trying to reskin WoW and put there lable on it

WoW is just an EQ copy its just blizz were the first one to make an even more successful game out of it, games follow similar paths because they are generallu successful, like CoD and BF games are basically the same games with some different key features.

[Deleted]

Have to say, I find this statement hilarious. Thinking WoW can't survive as long as the original EverQuest is simply laughable.

im not sure if it will, thats not because it cant, but it has a very different future, im pretty sure they would have closed EQ down had EQ2 been a rousing success, and tried to cannibalise EQ players to EQ2, but that wasnt the case and their popularity was about the same so its worth it to the company keeping both open.

Now WoW's test will be Titan, blizzard will want to get as many of WoW players over to that, it just remains to be seen as to what that game will be and how popular it will be, If titan takes off , making alot of WoW's players then migrate over to the new game WoW will go into "maintenance mode" or simply be shut down until a further 7 or 8 years down the line when a WoW 2 comes out. But if titan isnt a huge success they'll keep wow going until WoW 2.

[Redblade]

there is an article about LOTRO
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/07/lo...g-free-to-pla/

this is about DCUO
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11...-dcuo-players/

In both those cases it brought in tons of players who eventually spent money. Since doubling your revenues, generally means people spent money. Thats what happened in LOTRO, why do you think they did it after they converted DDO. It makes money!

And both of them are not to long after the change, where are their numbers today, a boom after switching is to be expected, increase in players is well and good but it means nothing as the game just went F2P, revenue increase in the short span is to be expected instead the current numbers would be more interesting.

[Forsedar]

This thread is about the Free-to-Play option. As you can see, discussion is getting out of hand. Please keep it civil.

[SirRobin]

And both of them are not to long after the change, where are their numbers today, a boom after switching is to be expected, increase in players is well and good but it means nothing as the game just went F2P, revenue increase in the short span is to be expected instead the current numbers would be more interesting.

That's my big question too. Monthly fees are quite reasonable, best bang for buck in the market in my opinion, and if the game wasn't entertaining enough to keep most playing as a P2P? Changing to F2P doesn't magically fix those design flaws.

[Deleted]

That's my big question too. Monthly fees are quite reasonable, best bang for buck in the market in my opinion, and if the game wasn't entertaining enough to keep most playing as a P2P? Changing to F2P doesn't magically fix those design flaws.

The games are still going arent they? LOTOR has released what 3 expansion packs with a rohan one on the way? it doesnt seem too bad, im not sure on DCUO.

[Redblade]

The games are still going arent they? LOTOR has released what 3 expansion packs with a rohan one on the way? it doesnt seem too bad, im not sure on DCUO.

Have the done any updates to graphic or core game system or just tacked on additional content, stuff like that, I'm sure most developers can tack on some type of content fairly easy by reusing a lot of assets, especially if they don't have to touch the core of the game.

So far from what I seen going F2P can be resembled a lot to a fat guy going to get liposuction and then proceeding to live and eat the same way as he did before, it will only make him thin and attractive for a short period of time to slowly go back to being the same fat guy he was before.

[Kelimbror]

Have the done any updates to graphic or core game system or just tacked on additional content, stuff like that, I'm sure most developers can tack on some type of content fairly easy by reusing a lot of assets, especially if they don't have to touch the core of the game.

So far from what I seen going F2P can be resembled a lot to a fat guy going to get liposuction and then proceeding to live and eat the same way as he did before, it will only make him thin and attractive for a short period of time to slowly go back to being the same fat guy he was before.

For LotRO, going F2P actually had them adding more features and content than they had previously. They implemented several new systems, including skirmishes - which is getting ripped off as scenarios in a new game. Additionally, their new xpac coming will feature mounted combat where your steeds level, have lots of abilities like they are a class, and they have different 'speeds'(canter, trot, etc) that you have to shift through. It is incredibly ambitious and looks to be superb from gameplay footage.

I have said it before, but that is a testament to their success since F2P more than any people numbers you want to throw in.

I expect a similar approach for SWTOR if they want to remain successful. Somehow I think going F2P allows for a game to add in lots of niche/flavor for every group of people. Since revenue is possible from all avenues, you don't have to be as afraid of turning off your 'subscribers'. People will pay for what they want.

[SirRobin]

The games are still going arent they? LOTOR has released what 3 expansion packs with a rohan one on the way? it doesnt seem too bad, im not sure on DCUO.

True, but LotRO was doing that before F2P too. I just don't see any evidence of ongoing customer growth after F2P conversions. Which is why F2P swaps seem more about getting more money out of those already willing to pay. Than it is about expanding the customer base. The main feature it seems to add is to make the population even more transient than before. In my opinion, F2P is just another three letter acronym, like DRM and DLC, that was sold to us one way but turned out quite differently in practice.

[Deleted]

Have the done any updates to graphic or core game system or just tacked on additional content, stuff like that, I'm sure most developers can tack on some type of content fairly easy by reusing a lot of assets, especially if they don't have to touch the core of the game.

So far from what I seen going F2P can be resembled a lot to a fat guy going to get liposuction and then proceeding to live and eat the same way as he did before, it will only make him thin and attractive for a short period of time to slowly go back to being the same fat guy he was before.

You'd have to find someone that plays the games, i was just going by what i know off the top of my head, ive not played LOTRO since release.

From wikipedia it looks like preoper "expansions" with content and a few new systems and classes.

moria:
The game's level cap has been increased to level 60; and the expansion (also called "Volume II") extends the Epic storyline by six more books, and adds two new classes, the Rune-keeper and the Warden. Other new features include environment aware AI, dynamic lighting, and a new weapon enhancement system.

mirkwood
The expansion added the southern region of Mirkwood. The game's level cap has been increased to level 65, and the expansion included the conclusion to Volume II of the epic storyline. It also introduced a new "skirmish" system that allows for repeatable, randomised and scalable combat based instances that can be accessed from anywhere in the game world for 1, 3, 6 and 12 players and new 3, 6 and 12 player private instances that take place in Dol Guldur proper.

isenguard
he Rise of Isengard officially brings the game's timeline to the events of The Two Towers. Players accompany the Grey Company as they ride to the aid of Aragorn, traveling through the new areas of Dunland, The Gap of Rohan, and the legendary region of Isengard, seat of Saruman the White. New game enhancements include a level cap increase to 75, level 75 legendary items, a new crafting tier, a 24-man raid, stat cap removal and improved virtue traits. There were also several major class revisions; the minstrel and the champion classes, in particular. The Epic Story was advanced with Volume 3 Book 4: The Rise of Isengard and introduced such iconic characters as Grimbold, Théodred, Grima Wormtongue and Saruman the White.

rohan
This will be the fourth expansion pack for The Lord of the Rings Online and, it is available as a web-based download and on Steam. New game enhancements include a level cap increase to 85, level 85 legendary weapons, and 6 new areas. The expansion's main feature is mounted combat.

---------- Post added 2012-08-09 at 03:58 PM ----------

True, but LotRO was doing that before F2P too. I just don't see any evidence of ongoing customer growth after F2P conversions. Which is why F2P swaps seem more about getting more money out of those already willing to pay. Than it is about expanding the customer base. The main feature it seems to add is to make the population even more transient than before. In my opinion, F2P is just another three letter acronym, like DRM and DLC, that was sold to us one way but turned out quite differently in practice.

What evidence would you require? the only evidence you can get is the game continuing to pump out a decent amount content, as theyre not all publicly traded companies where we can get our hands on the financials. does it really matter if it gets its cash from bleeding the hardcore or from the casuals dropping a tenner and buggering off, or the cash fairies come sprinking money down from heaven, its about the amount and frequency of content, and just a quick glance at LOTOR's it seems fine.

[Repefe]

Have the done any updates to graphic or core game system or just tacked on additional content, stuff like that, I'm sure most developers can tack on some type of content fairly easy by reusing a lot of assets, especially if they don't have to touch the core of the game.

Now you are just nitpicking I would very much welcome if developers produced more content with reused assets. You give a guy or two quest editor and story script to follow and have them make quest after quest. Then again developers do reuse assets and still it takes them ages to make something new.

[Redblade]

Now you are just nitpicking I would very much welcome if developers produced more content with reused assets. You give a guy or two quest editor and story script to follow and have them make quest after quest. Then again developers do reuse assets and still it takes them ages to make something new.

That was besides the point, I have tried a fair few F2P MMOs the past week (admittedly not got around to LotRO yet) and while some of them are promoted as F2P success I can still see why they lost their players in the first place, non of them managed to suck me in enough to want to come back for seconds and more, not developing the core mechanics of the game only adds to that issue over time.

[SirRobin]

What evidence would you require? the only evidence you can get is the game continuing to pump out a decent amount content, as theyre not all publicly traded companies where we can get our hands on the financials. does it really matter if it gets its cash from bleeding the hardcore or from the casuals dropping a tenner and buggering off, or the cash fairies come sprinking money down from heaven, its about the amount and frequency of content, and just a quick glance at LOTOR's it seems fine.

Well the most obvious evidence would be the servers themselves. LotRO, as an example, was adding content regularly prior to the swap too and added four servers when they converted to F2P. Have they added any since? Has DDO added servers since? If F2P was actually about growth, shouldn't the customer base be growing?

[Deleted]

Well the most obvious evidence would be the servers themselves. LotRO, as an example, was adding content regularly prior to the swap too and added four servers when they converted to F2P. Have they added any since? Has DDO added servers since? If F2P was actually about growth, shouldn't the customer base be growing?

here is a nice little link about lotr going pay to win

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01...ons-for-playe/

i do like the line

What about the eventual sale of high-level stat gear? Mersky says Turbine has "no intention at this time of selling any raid gear in the store.

i love how he says "at this time" meaning we are looking into it lol

if he had said, nope its never going to happen, then that would be cool, but that means that its on the table

free to play moving to pay to win.

this will happen in swtor with in 6 months.

[Arlee]

All smart Dev's/exec's leave options open. The back lash of "oh they are thinking about doing x" is always less hurtful than the backlash of "They said they wouldn't do x but now they are!".