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  1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Idk... I actually think (just from my observations talking to people and reading the internet) that model type of an MMO doesn't matter all that much in general. What people seem to care about most is content. I mean of course other things go into it as well, but content is the one thing that seems to come up in every discussion.
    Exactly. B2P, P2P, or F2P means less than whether or not people feel there's fun things to do in game. People will pay $15/month if what they're getting for that sub cost is worth it. B2P isn't any more viable a method than any other. It all comes down to the developer and how much content they're willing to give that's entertaining.

  2. #762
    Deleted
    i was gonna say just 1 word, bu ti guess its 2 letters instead : EA

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Idk... I actually think (just from my observations talking to people and reading the internet) that model type of an MMO doesn't matter all that much in general. What people seem to care about most is content. I mean of course other things go into it as well, but content is the one thing that seems to come up in every discussion.
    True, but how many p2p MMOs these days are considered worth the money by significant portion of the playerbase. What I see is every MMO getting big surge of player when it launches (b2p money) that then slowly withers away to p2p disappointment. The investment into the p2p mechanics seems misused when playes don't stay long enough to pay for them.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  4. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    True, but how many p2p MMOs these days are considered worth the money by significant portion of the playerbase. What I see is every MMO getting big surge of player when it launches (b2p money) that then slowly withers away to p2p disappointment. The investment into the p2p mechanics seems misused when playes don't stay long enough to pay for them.
    If you're going to use that caveat, no MMO aside from WoW is considered "worth the money". However, you can't just use that as a measuring stick. Rift is a prime example of that. They don't have a "significant" portion of the playerbase but can maintain a P2P model and the content that is produced for that playerbase is well worth the money spent every month. But, in reality, the P2P model is so insignificant to much of the playerbase. What it comes down to is whether a game justifies their subscription by offering the player enough to do and giving them a quality product.

  5. #765
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    If you're going to use that caveat, no MMO aside from WoW is considered "worth the money". However, you can't just use that as a measuring stick. Rift is a prime example of that. They don't have a "significant" portion of the playerbase but can maintain a P2P model and the content that is produced for that playerbase is well worth the money spent every month. But, in reality, the P2P model is so insignificant to much of the playerbase. What it comes down to is whether a game justifies their subscription by offering the player enough to do and giving them a quality product.
    In my mind TSW, TOR are examples of MMOs that could have been way more successful as b2p games. They would be cheaper to develop with more hype around them, they would be lighter and with smaller amount of bugs. Rift is prime example of one of the few p2p MMOs that have made it so far. But the p2p market is not as big as some ppl think.

    And yes it is about what you get for your money more than anything but while MMOs are good investment when you compare them to rl spendings, content wise they are way below what b2p games offer. Developer hears p2p and he thinks 90% profit margin, customers who pay to access what they paid for many times over.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  6. #766
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    They would be cheaper to develop with more hype around them, they would be lighter and with smaller amount of bugs.
    Cheaper to produce and less bugs because they are B2P, say what?

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Cheaper to produce and less bugs because they are B2P, say what?
    Not because they are b2p, but because they should be made as single player games with MMO features instead of MMOs that end up being played as single player games by most.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  8. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Not because they are b2p, but because they should be made as single player games with MMO features instead of MMOs that end up being played as single player games by most.
    Why not make them as MMOs with enough content to be played any way you want, arguing that a genre should stop being what it is and instead turn in to a single player game is quite ridiculous, one reason Rift does well is the amount of ways you can play the game both as groups and solo.

  9. #769
    Deleted
    I didn't play this game since january and decided to download it, thinking it was free to play, but it's not yet? I can't seem to login, tells me I don't have a active subscription.
    On the swtor website it seemed they have banners that they are free to play now, I am confused.

  10. #770
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Why not make them as MMOs with enough content to be played any way you want, arguing that a genre should stop being what it is and instead turn in to a single player game is quite ridiculous, one reason Rift does well is the amount of ways you can play the game both as groups and solo.
    Because most developers fail at it ? I would like pink rainbow to wake me up every morning, but reality is it does not happen. And same goes for MMOs. Every developer hopes for a miracle and then it does not happen. You can say developers should get better at it, I say maybe they should look at why not many p2p make it in the first place, what players appreciate about MMOs and how to give it to them without having to blow 100 million budget in the process.

    Not to mention the p2p financing model with b2p elements is ridiculous on its own.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  11. #771
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Because most developers fail at it ? I would like pink rainbow to wake me up every morning, but reality is it does not happen. And same goes for MMOs. Every developer hopes for a miracle and then it does not happen. You can say developers should get better at it, I say maybe they should look at why not many p2p make it in the first place, what players appreciate about MMOs and how to give it to them without having to blow 100 million budget in the process.
    As soon as they stop expecting insane profit levels they will not only stop failing at it but probably make successful games, especially if they relize that you can't push all players in to one or two end game activities and expect that to be enough, a reason I think more MMOs fail than anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Not to mention the p2p financing model with b2p elements is ridiculous on its own.
    I can agree with this to some extent, now I don't mind a smaller cost for the game or expansions but some over charge for sure, what's worse is P2P with cash shop as that's just pure greed.

  12. #772
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    If you look at it from that view they are yet again wasting months of development on features that should have been developed with the game and not after it's launch at the expense of actual content.
    You should probably start getting your head around that nothing is going to change that. We already know that they would have liked to implement all this stuff prior to launch but they ran out of time. Please elaborate what you would have done if you had to launch no matter what or just scrap all the years you just spend building a huge game? It's just too easy to say that they are wasting their time, no, they have to bring it because it's not there. There is no way around but it just takes way longer if you have to take care of all the other stuff connected to a live game. From the very beginning it was a highly predictable that you'll get what you've got now when half of the "quality of life" features were missing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Because most developers fail at it ? I would like pink rainbow to wake me up every morning, but reality is it does not happen. And same goes for MMOs. Every developer hopes for a miracle and then it does not happen. You can say developers should get better at it, I say maybe they should look at why not many p2p make it in the first place, what players appreciate about MMOs and how to give it to them without having to blow 100 million budget in the process.

    Not to mention the p2p financing model with b2p elements is ridiculous on its own.
    They definately should... mmo's are not new to the market and some things just happen over and over again. I mean, how many times do we have to explain that only endgame content, new items is never going to be enough? They could give you a new operation every week and people would clear it and feel bored. There is no way that you could satisfy any hardcore player nor keep his interest long enough. Only this kind of content is not going to solve the problem, ever. I think EA completely underrates social aspects of the game to actually draw and keep players in the game. Stuff like Pazaak or Swoop races or PvE arena style fights.
    Last edited by Psychlon; 2012-09-25 at 05:25 AM.

  13. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Stuff like Pazaak or Swoop races or PvE arena style fights.
    I would not hold out any great hope for in-game gambling. The hoops, roadblocks and risks in various countries would be nearly insurmountable.

    Still experimenting...

  14. #774
    you had trading card games in EQ2 and Galaxies... you don't need to center it around "winning money" but rather around prestige and fun.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodylotion View Post
    I didn't play this game since january and decided to download it, thinking it was free to play, but it's not yet? I can't seem to login, tells me I don't have a active subscription.
    On the swtor website it seemed they have banners that they are free to play now, I am confused.
    Currently there is a free trial up to level 15 for new accounts. Around Novemberish they will be converting to a model where existing accounts can play for free up to level 50 with limited access to flashpoints, ops, and warzones. It's not going to be completely free to play, but free to play with a subscription option (aka freemium).

  16. #776
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    You should probably start getting your head around that nothing is going to change that. We already know that they would have liked to implement all this stuff prior to launch but they ran out of time. Please elaborate what you would have done if you had to launch no matter what or just scrap all the years you just spend building a huge game? It's just too easy to say that they are wasting their time, no, they have to bring it because it's not there. There is no way around but it just takes way longer if you have to take care of all the other stuff connected to a live game. From the very beginning it was a highly predictable that you'll get what you've got now when half of the "quality of life" features were missing.
    From a customer standpoint I couldn't give a flying fuck about their reasonings for launching an unfinished product, I did however give them 4-5 months of patience and understanding that some things would need to be added post launch. They then proceeded to spend that on making transfers that to be blunt anyone with half a brain would realize was needed with a multi server structure, now they once again spending months and months of time developing features so they can switch to free to play.

    Do you really think they would have lost as many players and have as little actual content added to the game if they had released a more finished product to begin with?

  17. #777
    Deleted
    Ok, thanks for the answer.

  18. #778
    Scarab Lord Forsedar's Avatar
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    Do you really think they would have lost as many players and have as little actual content added to the game if they had released a more finished product to begin with?
    Maybe, maybe not. You have to remember that this is the 'entitlement' generation. There will still be that crowd of players who are displeased and are still going to complain no matter how good the product is.

  19. #779
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. You have to remember that this is the 'entitlement' generation. There will still be that crowd of players who are displeased and are still going to complain no matter how good the product is.
    For sure, I just know that everyone I played with quit while they developed transfers, if they had transfers ready to fight the normal population drop while developing more content I'm quite sure more people would have remained playing the game. The same applies now I think, months and months with no content outside raiding while they develop free to play features.

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Do you really think they would have lost as many players and have as little actual content added to the game if they had released a more finished product to begin with?
    From what I understand about games of this nature....


    They are never finished, ever... and saying that it wasn't released "finished" is just something else to complain about.

    Really sucks when the vast majority of a games potential players just sit around demanding new material be made exactly like another developers work while chanting the mantra "MOAR!!!"

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