I told you so.

[Brimstone]

It`s EXACTLY that.

The best game IS the one with the most subs.

When the majority of people think something, and you (and a few others) disagree, there`s a very high probability that you are the wrong one.

Seriously? I won't even bother explaining to you how much of a faulty logic underlies that...

[Austilias]

Hahaha, yeah. No. I don't see how a game with no sub can even fail.

We're not talking about failure, we're talking about supposed WoW killers, such as GW2 which is being presented as so; tell me again how many players Guild Wars 1 had at its peak?

[Deleted]

Different games for different people, no need to be all zealous for either side.

I like WoW, and I'll keep playing it. One of my close friends likes SWTOR and he'll keep playing that. Another is looking forward to GW2 and will probably play that.

I'm not denouncing either as my friend or anything.

[Begottenson]

It`s EXACTLY that.

The best game IS the one with the most subs.

When the majority of people think something, and you (and a few others) disagree, there`s a very high probability that you are the wrong one.

I`ve seen your comments on these forums for quite some time now grandpab, and you are one of the weakest minded people I`ve ever seen on these forums. You change your opinion about stuff so fast it`s hillarious. The new game is always the best one eh? Am I right? It`s cool being the different guy right?

And to the "smart" guy who asked how can a game fail if it doesn`t have any subs.... I really can`t say what I`m thinking, or I might risk being banned again (for the 20th time or so).

The "best game" is subjective at best(haha!) Really though, there might be the "most popular games" but the "best game" is the game that grabs YOUR interest the most. Not everyone else's, not "majority of the community" but what captures your attention and sticks with you the most.

WoW is going to be around for a bit longer and I have a feeling no game will ever "beat it" for the popularity vote, unless it's another Blizzard game. Let's face it blizzard had the right formula and while they might have some bumps along the way they usually do a good job of balancing the good with the bad.

Now onto the GW2 fail topic. The only true way for GW2 to fail is if they don't get the amount of initial and xpac buys that they are expecting. Have they hit their numbers they projected? No effing clue, did they recoup all the money the spent on the production? No clue and is yet to be seen. Is this going to be another game that is 2 or 3 years too late to capture the minds of the majority, possibly.

Bottom line though any mmorpg whither f2p, p2p, p2w or any other variation is still a success if they have 2+ million people actively playing their games. Companies will always find other ways to make money if their current model isn't working.

[obao98]

The best game is not the one with the most subs, because the best is measured solely by the players personal taste. Saying I'm wrong because I'm not interested in GW2 when a lot of people on these forums are is childish, which guessing by your username (which may be your year of birth) would be appropriate.

Nope. The number 98 has nothing to do with my age. I was actually born in 83 and that probably makes me older, and much more experienced than you, or many people in these forums.

And there`s no debating. The best game IS usually the one with more players.

And to the guy that quoted EVERQUEST, I played Everquest from launch until 1 or 2 expansions after Luclin. Search my post and you will see that I once created a topic about Everquest, maybe 1, 2 years ago in these forums. I`m not a poser. Everquest was AWESOME. But after WoW was release, it attracted many people. The game made a shitload of money, and because of that, it became the best MMO ever. And IS the best MMO in the market to this day. There`s NO ARGUING about it.

And to the "weak minded" guy. No, I'm not stalking you. I just happen to remember you, because your avatar is ridiculously annoying. I could also say some things about some other posters in these forums.

[grandpab]

because your avatar is ridiculously annoying

Don't be hatin on Thad Castle.

[Mormolyce]

Now SWTOR about to go Free2Play soon (since EA is behind it you know that means Pay2Win).

An interview maybe-sorta-kinda hints that they might sorta-maybe think about it at some unspecified point in the future = "about to go F2P soon!!!111" in your mind huh? Well I guess you believe you know the future so maybe we should listen to you this time. WHY DIDN'T WE LISTEN!!?? SAVE US I STAND IN FIRE!!! ONLY YOU CAN!!!!

[Begottenson]

We're not talking about failure, we're talking about supposed WoW killers, such as GW2 which is being presented as so; tell me again how many players Guild Wars 1 had at its peak?

Love blizz and all and love any developer that pushes the envelope and either tries new things or combining "winning ideas". But I distinctively remember their being a statement from Anet that GW2 wouldn't be a "wow killer" and they wasn't actively competing to "steal" subscribers from WoW.......... The only people claiming that GW2 is trying to be a WoW killer is the REALLY ANNOYING Fanboys for either game or the misinformed, generally speaking.

[Deleted]

How will it be p2win, any examples how they would form the cash shop and so on to make it like that?

[Marthenil]

Nope. The number 98 has nothing to do with my age. I was actually born in 83 and that probably makes me older, and much more experienced than you, or many people in these forums.

And there`s no debating. The best game IS usually the one with more players.

And to the guy that quoted EVERQUEST, I played Everquest from launch until 1 or 2 expansions after Luclin. Search my post and you will see that I once created a topic about Everquest, maybe 1, 2 years ago in these forums. I`m not a poser. Everquest was AWESOME. But after WoW was release, it attracted many people. The game made a shitload of money, and because of that, it became the best MMO ever. And IS the best MMO in the market to this day. There`s NO ARGUING about it.

My point wasn't about EQ specifically, what I said is that wich game is the best is purely subjective, especially in the MMO business.
Don't get me wrong, i've been playing WoW since launch and only quit a month or so ago, however I disagree that it's the best MMO.
I just don't get/don't like the whole "bandwagon" crap that happens with every new mmo. Both hate and love wagons. To each their own, play what you like and stop trashtalking/praising the game you chose.
/endrant

[Krowz]

Nope. The number 98 has nothing to do with my age. I was actually born in 83 and that probably makes me older, and much more experienced than you, or many people in these forums.

And there`s no debating. The best game IS usually the one with more players.

And to the guy that quoted EVERQUEST, I played Everquest from launch until 1 or 2 expansions after Luclin. Search my post and you will see that I once created a topic about Everquest, maybe 1, 2 years ago in these forums. I`m not a poser. Everquest was AWESOME. But after WoW was release, it attracted many people. The game made a shitload of money, and because of that, it became the best MMO ever. And IS the best MMO in the market to this day. There`s NO ARGUING about it.

And to the "weak minded" guy. No, I'm not stalking you. I just happen to remember you, because your avatar is ridiculously annoying. I could also say some things about some other posters in these forums.

Okay, I'm withdrawing from this debate. It's pointless.

Using a definitive word like IS and then following it with "usually" is terrible for proving your point, especially when you are trying to use your personal belief as fact.

What is best and how do you define it? Biggest playerbase? Largest profit over complete game lifespan? Highest profit peak? Highest playerbase peak?

To me what matters most in choosing "the best" is pve max level content. To others, its story. To some others, its pvp. Do you understand? The best is completely subjective and up to the players personal tastes.

Would you say wow is the best in the category of story deliverance? I have never played SWTOR because I'm not a star wars fan and am happy playing WoW, but I've heard that's what is so highly praised about it. I have definitely heard that from SWTOR more than WOW, so clearly that means its the best right? No, its not, because different people like different things and there is no arguing that.

[Deleted]

Atleast Square-Enix has the decensy to continue and improve their game they think failed, even with so little people playing and I just recently started playing, Final Fantasy XIV, cause of that 2.0 coming up end of the year and overhauling the game. The game in itself is very good, even now, before 2.0 and especially if you are a final fantasy fan, the universe is amazing. People in the game say it has changed so much since release. I can understand bad press keeps people away from the game now. It's a shame.

[Begottenson]

Nope. The number 98 has nothing to do with my age. I was actually born in 83 and that probably makes me older, and much more experienced than you, or many people in these forums.

And there`s no debating. The best game IS usually the one with more players.

And to the guy that quoted EVERQUEST, I played Everquest from launch until 1 or 2 expansions after Luclin. Search my post and you will see that I once created a topic about Everquest, maybe 1, 2 years ago in these forums. I`m not a poser. Everquest was AWESOME. But after WoW was release, it attracted many people. The game made a shitload of money, and because of that, it became the best MMO ever. And IS the best MMO in the market to this day. There`s NO ARGUING about it.

And to the "weak minded" guy. No, I'm not stalking you. I just happen to remember you, because your avatar is ridiculously annoying. I could also say some things about some other posters in these forums.

Again it's perception. If your perception is the most popular game is the best then that's your own definition and view, to each their own type of thing. But to openly deny that other peoples views and perception of "best" isn't true, false or that something being the best isn't up for debate based on your own view points is short minded (just as bad as weak minded, funny you through that around though). Also thinking that being 29 means you're more experienced than "many people on these forums" is also asinine and just proves how little experience you actually do have.

Finally, I'm sure the same could be said about your avatar :P And I'm sure that many other people could say some things about you too. But now where does that get us? A longer pissing match?

[Deleted]

Meh, I like SWTOR, I never thought it was a "wow killer" as I don't with any game because I see them individually with their pluses and minuses. Pretty glad it's going f2p though, just means I don't have to pay 2 subs. I will agree with OP though that game hype is a pretty awful thing... *cough* gw2 *cough* D3..... what?

Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek... huge potential wasted time and again because their makers are cocky enough to think people will just follow the famous brand like brainless zombies.

"The Old Republic" theme has never struck me that well anyway. An Imperial Star Destroyer is way cooler than any of that age-old stuff. In fact a game placed in the New Republic era might even be better. You'd still have both the Jedi and the Sith, along with X-Wings, TIE fighters, Star Destroyers and all the other cool stuff. Shouldn't be too hard to blend it among the huge amount of existing stories.

[yuca247]

Honestly, I'm amazed developers even keep trying to make MMOs. I think it is becoming painfully clear that it is very hard to make a profit on a subscription based MMO. Most subscribers stay for a month maybe a few more, but to keep them around for years is something that is very hard to do from what we have seen of the last few MMOs.

[Ravenblade]

You think people will learn that all that hype doesn't mean that an MMO would be a "WoW killer" or even good that matter.

Now SWTOR about to go Free2Play soon (since EA is behind it you know that means Pay2Win). I was mocked before SWTOR came out for saying that it wont last and that it will die like any MMO before that hyped to no end but falling short and either died or kept going as a mediocre success. [...]

Now, please stop going crazy over any new shinny MMO. Don't believe the hype machine.
[...]

I believe you are posting on the wrong forums then as I cannot find the instance here you got mocked here.

[obao98]

My point wasn't about EQ specifically, what I said is that wich game is the best is purely subjective, especially in the MMO business.
Don't get me wrong, i've been playing WoW since launch and only quit a month or so ago, however I disagree that it's the best MMO.
I just don't get/don't like the whole "bandwagon" crap that happens with every new mmo. Both hate and love wagons. To each their own, play what you like and stop trashtalking/praising the game you chose.
/endrant

I agree with you. From what you probably read from my posts, you probably saw that I have played a shitload of games (specially MMOs).

I love MMOs. I wish all the MMOs were good, so I could at least play them for some time. I LOVE Star Wars. HUGE fan. But I simply cannot spent money on a game that obviously was not finished and had so many bugs, wrong things with it.

I really wish GW2 is a successful game. But the way they are planning the game, I just have to say that it`ll be another epic fail. Games nowadays cannot survive without a GREAT end game content. I have no ideia why some people, and even more amazing - some companies -, dont understand that.

I know everyone has different TASTE. But the point I`m trying to make is that USUALLY the game with the most players, is the best one, because it makes the most money, and with more money, the game gets more content, more replayability, and that`s what happens with WoW. Some people say WoW`s graphics are shit (I disagree), but the game is amazing because of the amount of features it has. And it`ll continue to be the best because it has the most players.

[Marthenil]

Honestly, I'm amazed developers even keep trying to make MMOs. I think it is becoming painfully clear that it is very hard to make a profit on a subscription based MMO. Most subscribers stay for a month maybe a few more, but to keep them around for years is something that is very hard to do from what we have seen of the last few MMOs.

I totally agree, honestly b2p models look more promising to consumers and it's already been discussed that they CAN cover the cost of maintenance/content.
MMOs are time investments by their nature, adding money to that too makes them too great a risk for potential customers to take

[Deleted]

i just came to the forums to make a thread like this but more harsh, soo where are now all the griefers that were like "swtor will crush wow" ; "swtor will get wow subscribers to half" etc. rly guys where are you? i also know a few ppls i know in real life that were like that, now i plan to go and most likely hit their heads against some wall untill they understand their place. too bad i don't know u guys in rl .

Please post constructively without threatening people..

[obao98]

Again it's perception. If your perception is the most popular game is the best then that's your own definition and view, to each their own type of thing. But to openly deny that other peoples views and perception of "best" isn't true, false or that something being the best isn't up for debate based on your own view points is short minded (just as bad as weak minded, funny you through that around though). Also thinking that being 29 means you're more experienced than "many people on these forums" is also asinine and just proves how little experience you actually do have.

Finally, I'm sure the same could be said about your avatar :P And I'm sure that many other people could say some things about you too. But now where does that get us? A longer pissing match?

How is saying that I`m more experienced than "many people on these forums" asinine?

There`s been topics about this before. The MAJORITY of people who post here are under 21. I am 28. I am older than the majority of posters. Get it now? What I said is 100% true.

And look at that avatar. It`s annoying as hell!