Can Narcissists be Heroes? (wall of text)

[Deleted]

After reading the thread about which line you never wish to hear again in Diablo3, I noticed that it's not just me who is dissapointed in the voice-acting in diablo3.
But what this thread is about is the heroes and the way they have been designed to be - in my view - narcissists.
The heroes from diablo3 are acting as if they have no empathy or sense of occassion when they encounter quest-givers or mercenaries.
For example in act1 when the guy asks if you can help him out because his wife has turned into a zombie of some kind, and once you kill her he is very sad and the hero responds something like "That's what she would have wanted you to do" - totally dismissive and uninterested in him. He might aswell have said "yeah whatever, move on dude, shes dead".
Or when the enchantress (yes she's weird) says that she feels an emptiness, and asks if he feels the same, his answer goes something like: "no i dont have such feelings" - okay mr. self-satisfied...

These are just two examples, but it is like this the entire game through, and something i really wondered about. What did the game developers think when they designed the heroes personalities to be like this? To me the heroes act like unempathic know-it-alls, or in another word: an asshole. But that can't be the intention? Did the developers want to create heroes that were cool and heroic, and this was the result? Really?

You could say that it is the voice-actors fault for lack of emotion, but if you look at the text itself, I think you can atleast partially agree that the problem is a result of the writing. The dialogue is designed to canonize the hero as some kind of superhuman who is totally selfconfident to a point where he has forgotten what it was like to have weaknesses or feelings. He is more like the embodiment of a 9-year old's idea of what a hero is, 100% cool. 100% invincible.
The decision of designing "heroes you don't wanna mess with" is to me not the problem. That is not something new at all and it has worked very well in the past. But the problem comes when you design heroes that "cant be bothered with normal people" because the hero ends up acting like he doesn't share the same world as the people hes trying to save. He lives in his own world, where he is the hero, and everyone else are either 1) lesser beings in need of his help, 2) idiots, 3) both.
So what is the motivation for fighting the evil? Is it just the excitement or seeing what happens next? Is it just "what heroes do?"
When these questions aren't answered, it leaves you with a character that you don't actually care about, no matter how cool and powerful he seems to be.

I'm 23 years old, not 45. - I don't consider myself to be an older generation who is bashing the new generation for lack of values, even though i can hear abit of that in the back of my head while writing this.
But I think that the question: What is a hero? or perhaps: What drives the hero? Is important for us to feel like we are involved in the world we are supposedly saving.
No matter how great and complex the storyline is in itself, if the character-design fails, then people don't care.
Even before leaving act1 i didn't care about the story whatsoever, because this asshole im in control of is a pure douche. He is designed to act as if he is only in it for the glory and because he don't know what else to be doing. It is certainly not to help anyone, because he treats almost everyone he meets like a waste of time. So what the hell is the point of saving them? Is that just the side-effect of getting the glory? Well are they really heroes then, or something else?

When i think of heroes from my childhood, i think of human qualities. Someone who stands up for the the weak. Robin Hood (the disney-version lol) for example was a hero, of some sort atleast. He was both cool, and empathic. He was a kind of douche to his enemies, sure, but to his friends he was humble. Technically Robin Hood was a criminal, but he gave the gold back to those who were starving because it was simply the right thing to do for him. But i think the most important thing about Robin Hood was that he really liked the people he was helping and was saddened by their misfortune. They were his friends, and once order was restored (when the king returned in the end) he didn't continue robbing because "thats what he had always known how to do" - he stopped.
Luckily the game ends when diablo is defeated, because if it had continued we would realize that the hero simply would be standing in the city going "...now what?" and that is perhaps the diablo games' weakness - That it is hard to imagine where the heroes really belong when they don't fight? What sense of "home" are the heroes defending? Do they have any? And is that really the point of why they act so strange? There is no logic behind their saving the world.
And thus theres no logic for us to understand. Theres nothing we can try to identify with. Thats why we don't care.

[Huntaer]

Yeah i'd love to have seen an ending thing, like the barbarian going back to his homeland, being with his family he fought for. Stuff like that ^_^

[Amnasty]

Depends i know when the female witch doctor says "She would want it that way" she sounds very sincere, albeit not apologetic, but who would be, its sad shes turned to a zombie, but id rather kill my love one, the let them serve the dead in nefarious manners. Who wants to be a monster?

[lavafoxx]

well, at least for the male wizard, he truly believes that prophecy is on his side so that alone is gonna make him sound "narcissistic".

[La]

the only person i found remotely interested in whatsoever was Tyrael, he`s pretty much what you describe as your robin hood. for most of the entire story i just felt myself not really caring about it at all, and i love sci-fi and fantasy and these types of stories but this was garbage but meh, i`m sure lots of people liked it, but a narcissist isn`t really someone you consider or expect to be a hero who saves the world, since they generally represent the good in people and the world they protect.

[Pull My Finger]

The Witch Doctor actually comes across as a guy with lots of empathy and life experience. He also has a certain light-heartedness to him that is somewhat stereotypical for elderly, spiritually enlightened people. I noticed I like the guy a lot. As you can probably see, D3 actually did reach out to me in a way you sort of assume it isn't even capable of.

And to make it even more absurd, I like the templar guy. He's a bit zealous, a little bit narrow-minded, like a templar is expected to be, and nontheless a fine man, and a true friend. And they didn't even have to orchestrate this huge dynamic story and lore around him to express that.

To be honest, I tend to feel that a lot of people nowadays just simply don't know how to make something out of things that are just being subtly hinted. People have kind of lost the ability to connect the dots. Everyone needs everything chewed and meticulously and gaplessly explained for them back and forth, or else they can't make anything of it.

Having that said ... it's Diablo. A hack'n'slay game. One should keep a sense of proportion here. This isn't Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex or whatever. I personally have caught myself being astonished by how this action-packed, loot-crazed game manages to leave an immersive atmospheric impression on me.

I've seen some criticism from players and even from magazines (!) who were kind of faulting the story, saying it was too shallow and predictable, that they never had any meaningful dialogue options, that the game didn't even have multiple endings etc. What's next? Complaining how Assassin's Creed 6 doesn't have a flight simulator mode?

Regarding your question: I guess it depends how you define "hero" - it can just simply stand for "the protagonist of the tale" or have a more literal meaning (knight-in-shining-armour-type of character). However, a lot of real-life heroes aren't exactly do-goods and knights in shining armour. Narcissism is a strong motivation. And isn't it interesting that misantrophes are perfectly capable for, and often engage, in benevolent and philantrophic endeavours? It's not even contradictionary. They may feel contempt for people. But not because they're evil, but because they actually hold high moral values, but are deeply hurt and disappointed by their peers' inability and unwillingness to stand up for them.

One can be a cold and cynical person and dislike people and still be a hero. In fact, many are. I personally don't like heroes, they're suspicious, and I don't believe in them. Most certainly not in real life and I don't see how I could find them believable in a fantasy setting.

[AimeriMG]

I would say it depends on the class you're playing, really. You think a Barbarian would concern himself with someone that feels sad they had to kill their zombie wife? I personally wouldn't think so. Wouldn't seem like much of a Barbarian to me.

There's also the fact that he realizes he has to save the world. Maybe he's just too focused on that. Maybe he realizes that everything else is, honestly, just a lot less important.

No, I really enjoyed the story, and thought the Barbarians character was great. Though, Huntaer is right, it would be cool to see him return home to his Barbarian lands in a cinematic or something.

[Deleted]

OP must not have played with Witch Doctor.

[Rickarus]

To be honest, I liked the Witch Doctor (male) as well, I found him to be entertaining, friendly (at least with his followers and the "important" npcs: tyreal, leah, etc) but entirely focused on the overall goal (saving the world) throughout.

As for whether narcissists can be heroes, I think the best heroes are heroes with flaws. There's a reason so many people hate on Superman, he's too much of a boy scout, no real character flaws. Tony Stark, on the other hand, is a TOTAL narcissist. But that makes him more relatable.

At least that's my take on it.

[Frozen Death Knight]

To be honest, I liked the Witch Doctor (male) as well, I found him to be entertaining, friendly (at least with his followers and the "important" npcs: tyreal, leah, etc) but entirely focused on the overall goal (saving the world) throughout.

As for whether narcissists can be heroes, I think the best heroes are heroes with flaws. There's a reason so many people hate on Superman, he's too much of a boy scout, no real character flaws. Tony Stark, on the other hand, is a TOTAL narcissist. But that makes him more relatable.

At least that's my take on it.

This is most of the truth regarding this.

Though, it is not completely impossible to make heroic characters with traits that could alienate people as long as those traits are communicated well enough to the audience so at least it is possible for them to somewhat understand the character's point of view.

[Deleted]

I don't know about the other characters, but i found the DH to be quite convincing. I really liked the character as well as his voice-acting. I just imagine all those heroes to already have gone through a lot, so it wasn't surprising to me that they reacted differently or even seemingly cold in certain situations.

[Zao]

Aye, my female DH was very cold and distanced. But that's intentional. I mean she saw her whole family being slaughtered and got trained in the way of the hunters, where they teach you how to focus your hatred.

Their resources are called "Hatred" and "Discipline". That alone should make their emotional spectrum clear.

[Ravenblade]

Ever since Duke Nukem I am convinced that narcissists can be heroes as well. My main is a DH and his motivation of fighting evil is clear, he lost his family and he hates every single demon and knows each by its name. They are going to pay and if someone is to thick to understand it then he feels no compassion whatsoever with the person he is talking to. Besides he knows the things which are inevitable whereas a guy like the blacksmith doesn't or didn't until you helped him kill his wife or what was left of it.

[Juvencus]

well, at least for the male wizard, he truly believes that prophecy is on his side so that alone is gonna make him sound "narcissistic".

This. We also know that he was taken from his family when he was very young, which would have made him cruel and tough to be able to survive and reach his current status and power.

[florestan]

my male Wizard is completely full of himself and I like him that way

Wizard: So, do you write your own spells?
Enchantress: Yes, of course. Don't you?
Wizard: How else could I be so good?

[Lathais]

Do you hate Iron Man too? What about Wolverine? The "Anti-Hero" has always been a favorite of mine, and generally very popular as well.