Maybe PVE Should Just Be Removed

[Binaris]

The idea of removing pve, something they have spent a good deal of money and time on, is just silly. You cite that experience is low for people who don't want to do everything. I refer you to the following video, not to debate your entire point, because everyone is entitled to an oppinion, but put more facts on the table. To sum it up.

Player: Boohoo I want to be led by the nose through everything without every having to think and explore.
Normal dev: Ok. Just follow these breadcrumbs you mindless dollar sign.
GW2 dev: Umm no, get out and explore, we didn't build this world for you to NOT see it.



This is not the typical mmo. Casual does not mean easy. It does not mean mindless. Do not mistake the casual pve experience to mean that you are going to have your hand held. You are not expected to do eveything the game has to offer to level. You are expected to put forth effort. Welcome to Tyria, where children ARE left behind.

[lethargy]

The only problem I had with the levelling flow was that there are a number of npcs that offer quests but aside from talking to every single npc you run into there's no indicator that they do. I was outpacing the zones but I'm pretty sure that was exactly why, there's usually 1 quest in at least each town (or every few towns) that was offered by some random npc that I never talked to.

[Allanon the Mystic]

The only problem I had with the levelling flow was that there are a number of npcs that offer quests but aside from talking to every single npc you run into there's no indicator that they do. I was outpacing the zones but I'm pretty sure that was exactly why, there's usually 1 quest in at least each town (or every few towns) that was offered by some random npc that I never talked to.

You actually don't get a quest talking to them directly, just being near them for a second and you gain it OR you are talking about the start of DE's, where some events require someone talking to the NPC to start it.

[grandpab]

You actually don't get a quest talking to them directly, just being near them for a second and you gain it.

There's DEs that start if you talk to some npcs though, or I found one that informed me about a DE going on that was too far away to be on my map. Sometimes they have a little orange circle thing above their head, but not always.

[Allanon the Mystic]

There's DEs that start if you talk to some npcs though, or I found one that informed me about a DE going on that was too far away to be on my map. Sometimes they have a little orange circle thing above their head, but not always.

Already edited my post! Go AWAY.

[Squirrelbanes]

Maybe just don't like......reply? sheeks ppl.

(GW2 is awesome and I'd sell my own mother for it to be released tomorrow!)

[InfiniteRetro]

No one said that, but you probably should now that you've brought it up. No one said that, but you probably should now that you've brought it up. No one said that, but you probably should now that you've brought it up.
I'm sure you're right. They should completely remove half of the game (the half they they have probably put more work into during development, as it's harder to make MMO PvE than MMO PvP) because you think it is sub par, regardless of the people who enjoy it. Obviously, you are simply 'pointing out at length the issues'. I mean, look at your OP. It's so in depth and detailed. "Theres obvious issues with levelling." is quite obviously a very informative argument with lots of points against PvE, and by the evidence you have provided I am inclined to agree with you. Hell, with issues that huge they should quite obviously just call off the GW2 release. Skip to GW3, make it a PvP only game. Quite. *sips tea*

you want the pve issues. here they are:

Just to add, its pretty ignorant of Anet to assume any rpg or mmorpg in history never had players exploring. they want you to explore because they mark it on the damn map for you to go to. no breadcrumbs? yeah, i knew there was a skill point hidden in that valley ive never exposed on my map yet. fantastic logic there.

1) XP spread out across various events/activities in the game which yield little by themselves but as a whole they do. the issue with this is, someone that doesnt want to pvp or craft, but wants to do DE's, renown hearts and the storyline will never achieve the levels required by the storyline because the storyline quests are given to you when you are way below level. so you either complete an entire zone OR grind out the things you want to

2) Going to other PVE starting zones is a joke. No RPG in history has you think its a good thing to go to another races starting zone for the sole purpose of grinding xp, which actually was also suggested by Colin himself regarding the low level of xp. This means their system wont be changed, it means someone creating a Norn, will end up going to Queensdale so they can get the ample xp required, thus rendering doing an alt human pointless because you've already experienced that content and as such isnt fresh.

3) Dynamic events are either TOO much or too few depending on the zone. They either reset too fast or too slow (due to beta) and variety in them ends up being much like the quest activities anet claim to hate, kill this, fetch that, escort this. Again leaves not much variety when you know exactly how and when a dynamic event will trigger again and whats required.

4) renown hearts dont offer enough xp for a starter, and certainly there arent enough in the game to give those who simply want to do the essentials, renowns, DE's (without repeating mind you) and the storyline enough xp to move forward.

5) Nothing in the game teaches you WHAT to do. If you have to educate someone how to play someone elses game because it doesnt do the job properly to the player engaging it, theres a major issue in teaching technique or lack of help.

6) Mobs are nothing more than mindless brutes that require no skill at all to take down. Lack of skill capturing along with simplistic ai means that the only mechanic available to play is dodging. after a while you realise this is ALL you do, dodge, dodge, dodge. the idea of mmos having you stand still and cast is the strategic trade off of nuking vs moving. if you nuke you better be sure you know what to do next and whats coming, you move and you then have to rely on other spells. in pvp movement is obviously key and this works in all mmos, in pve its the ONLY mechanic.and since mobs gang up, its near pointless and tiresome to constantly run in a circle.

7) Personal Story is by far the weakest link. The advertised game tells us you can do whatever you want, play out your story. but, what we wont tell you is that you must pretty much do everything or you wont be able to do the story. Not only that, cutscenes are worse than GW1, choices in the beginning with your character are nothing new, unique or different to any currently developed or out mmo or rpg. how an npc talks to you has existed for ages in gaming.

8) limited skill systems is VERY backwards in pve design. the idea of not having limitations worked in instanced areas in gw1, in gw2 its not going to be as authentic to the game and will require you to constantly switch out even for the most menial of challenges. can we save builds yet like the first?


9) No tank? ORLY? anet have admitted guardians is very much a support class. so, anet went back on their word and included a somewhat tank. this class will be the one used to overcome the hard hitting mobs in dungeons.no guardian? sorry, cant come.

10) because each zone is essentially in a fish bowl, nothing carries over like they promised it would into the world. they said DE's would, and they dont. they cant when a zone is structured as it is. personal story might but then its no different to phasing in WoW.

thats all i got so far, but, remember, im just trolling apparently so now im just 'ranting' and have no validation.

[Mif]

Stop responding to obvious flamebaiting.

Click here to report his post instead of giving him the response he's looking for.

[InfiniteRetro]

Stop responding to obvious flamebaiting.

Click here to report his post instead of giving him the response he's looking for.

im not flamebaiting a damn thing im posting for a discussion. what a fantastic forum. hey, someone posted something negative, he's just trolling quick get rid of him.

what a joke. there truly is no expression of opinion here.

[nocturnus]

This will be what, 4 threads in a row you made here to flamebait that got locked? It's amazing that you haven't gotten so much as a temp ban yet.

On topic so I don't get an infraction for replying to your thread, I'll simply say this. Just because you don't enjoy GW2's PvE doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Plenty of people do enjoy it. If you don't like it, don't play it. PvE and sPvP are COMPLETELY separate.

Exactly.

Anyway, XP gains are fine, so the "issues" you're referring to aren't obvious, they're your personal issues obvious only to yourself. I personally don't want a game where I can reach level cap in half day like I can in 'other games'.

A few nice facts for you:
- GW2 is not pvp focussed
- Anet has invested most of its resources into pve

im not flamebaiting a damn thing im posting for a discussion. what a fantastic forum. hey, someone posted something negative, he's just trolling quick get rid of him.

what a joke. there truly is no expression of opinion here.

There really is no discussion when the only arguments you can come up with are: "There ain't enough XP" and "There ain't enough content to make up the little XP we get". Especially since both 'arguments' aren't true - at all. Therefore chances are, this actually is a flamebait.

Thanks for the link Mif, made good use of it.

[InfiniteRetro]

Exactly.

Anyway, XP gains are fine, so the "issues" you're referring to aren't obvious, they're your personal issues obvious only to yourself. I personally don't want a game where I can reach level cap in half day like I can in 'other games'.

A few nice facts for you:
- GW2 is not pvp focussed
- Anet has invested most of its resources into pve

god its not about the bloody level cap. anet said levels dont matter, then how is it, when i focus on doing the personal story, im unable to complete it because of what level i am. THIS is the issue i mainly have. for someone that wants to do the storyline, the game forces them to do other things they may wish not to. finishing the story doesnt negate the game, thats childish thinking, ALL or nothing attitude. i finished gw1 storyline and came back for years doing the rest. same with any other rpg that allows you to keep playing long after the "STORY" finishes. its not about the level until the level prevents you.

---------- Post added 2012-06-19 at 12:12 AM ----------

@InfiniteRetro: this is just the right video for you:



nothing to add, really

so you use a dude on youtube to claim im wrong? really?

[ngc2440]

im not flamebaiting a damn thing im posting for a discussion. what a fantastic forum. hey, someone posted something negative, he's just trolling quick get rid of him.

what a joke. there truly is no expression of opinion here.

That is, yet again, another place where you are wrong. You have every right to post your opinion on a subject on these forums. You got to realize though is that every other forum user has that right. Sounds like to me you are upset that people aren't agreeing with your posts and calling you out and now you are getting pissy about it.

Pro tip - Don't post your opinion if you are not willing to put up with people calling you out if there are holes in your logic.

[Maarius]

so you use a dude on youtube to claim im wrong? really?

exactly /10charr

[Myrrar]

The problem is, your OP wasn't constructive. Naming a thread 'maybe they should just remove PVE' isn't constructive. People aren't going to agree with you, especially when don't post any reason why you have your opinion and you have a history of 'this game sucks because I say so' threads.

You can have your opinion, make it constructive.