My response to Nephalem Valor as "specing"

[Truhan]

Well, I made this post on the official Diablo 3 forums and it generated no interest. I tried reposting it on Diablo Fans, but it won't let me log in OR register there, so I guess I'll just repost it here and see if anyone's interested. Of course, there is a tl;dr at the very bottom.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5912162711

Well, I'd like to preface this with a simple acknowledgement. Blizzard isn't going to listen to this. They have no reason to. Diablo 3 is already a wild success regardless of its actual quality or the quality Jay Wilson et al. believe Diablo 3 to have. This is just a sort of idea to throw out there into the ether for people that might be interested in actually solving a similar problem that might crop up in their own game or custom map or whatever. That said, let's look at what one Lylirra had to say about the problem of Nephalem Valor recently:

2) Valor buff. Diablo 3 was advertised as having a wide variety of skills that can be swapped in and out at any time, even in battle (with a small delay for use). This allowed greater variety in the abilities that champion mobs could have and provide greater challenges for the player. You also then provided a Valor buff that is supposed to encourage players to kill more champion packs. But oddly you choose to have the valor buffs be removed if the player changes their skills (or even moves a skill on the hot bar from one position to another). This goes against the entire design of the buff and the goal of having players kill as many champion packs as possible, Why was this decision made and with what logic?

This was actually a decision we made based off player feedback. On the one hand, there's a lot of enjoyment in being able to swap your skills at will and tailor your builds to the environment around you. On the other, there’s also gameplay to finding a build that really works for you in a variety of situations.

During beta, we received a lot of feedback from players who wanted to be able to swap skills any time. We also had a large number of players who wanted to have a sense of their characters "build," or some sort of build identity -- especially at later levels. We understood both points of view, so with Nephalem Valor you can still swap a skill out at any time, but there is a penalty for doing so (i.e. losing your stack).

As sort of an aside, we know that it can be SUPER frustrating for players who use Elective Mode to lose an NV stack due to a poorly-placed click near your Skill bar. Because of this, we're looking to add an action bar lock for Elective Mode in an upcoming patch.

Well, it's 100% true that there's no "feeling" to the characters. They sure as hell don't give me a reason to reroll the same class, outside of a bank alt/achievement alt/hardcore version. However, Nephalem Valor hardly gives any sense of "specing" into a character. Moreover, Blizzard's response to "unbeatable" pack affix combinations is "deal with it":

Speaking in general about monster affixes:

The intention is for there to be differences in the difficulties of the monster packs. Some are hard, some are easy -- and some may seem impossible. When you are first beginning Inferno, you can pick off the easy ones without much challenge, but you may have to skip some of the harder ones. That's okay. As you become more powerful, you can survive better, deal more damage, and take on some of the affix packs you previously chose to avoid. And after gearing up even further, eventually you can take them all on. It won't be a cakewalk, but you won't run in abject terror the next time you see that Invulnerable Minions combo pack sauntering your way (okay...you might run a little). Certain monster affixes will also punish certain skill builds more than others, as many of our affixes do.

We've been watching feedback closely about all the affix types and we've seen a lot of responses to concerns such as "I have no problem with them" or "use skill X instead and you'll be fine" or "I used to have trouble but then I got some X gear and now I'm fine". This is what we intend to happen over time.

Speaking of Invulnerable Minions specifically:

All that said, we definitely are paying attention to your feedback (as mentioned earlier), and we'll make adjustments to monster affixes as we see necessary. We will always intend that some affixes are harder than others, and we'll mostly be making adjustments to ensure some affixes aren't radically out of line.

Actually, it's a little more than "deal with it." Notice how Lylirra blatantly says that people should switch out skills for certain affixes? This actually ruins the entire point of Nephalem Valor. If you run into a pack that seems unbeatable or requires a different skill, then you're better off restarting the entire map.

So, I have a pretty simple solution to both these problems and I think I know a way one could implement this solution on an already existing system similar to Diablo 3 or in a project still being worked on from scratch.

First of all, I would get rid of losing Nephalem Valor for switching out skills. I would focus on making an optional "skill swap" system similar to Diablo 1 (where you could assign skills to be switched to your left or right mouse buttons after using an F key) or a system of alternate sets of action bars similar to World of Warcraft and other contemporary MMOs (some kind of cooldown for switching skills would still exist, I suppose). The point isn't that such systems as weapon swap, skill swap, or elective mode are "too confusing" for new players - being able to take advantage of such complex systems should simply be a mark of a good player. There's no need to dumb down a game so that players with better skill or talent can't exceed the capabilities of players unable to comprehend the idea of using a skill of a different class in a different numbered area.

Next, I would completely revamp the passive traits system as it is now and make it a sort of quasi-permanent investment. If I remember correctly, a number of people during the beta complimented the companions' skill system because of its sense of quasi-permanence (even though the skills could be swapped out very easily) and the requirement to choose one or the other. This is why I feel the passive traits system would be a good way for players to make their character their own. Instead of being able to switch out any skill or trait on the fly, I would require a trainer-type trait reset which clears a player's Nephalem Valor and, of course, costs a pretty heft amount of gold (maybe something like 400k, I don't know). Obviously, players would be given a free reset upon hitting level 60 and a notification when they try to add a passive.

This is where, I'm afraid, things have to diverge a bit. In an already released game, there's almost no chance for any kind of major overhaul of any system unless there are going to be people paying for said overhaul (via an expansion). Again, Blizzard would never do anything like I'm going to suggest here, but if I were to iterate on the current system, I would simply add another three passive trait slots (for levels 40, 50, and 60, obviously) and rebuff the monsters and Acts a bit. The sheer number of passives should be enough for players to feel like they can make a character "theirs" even if there are four or five "must-have" passives for their class to be able to survive Inferno.

If I were making a suggestion for a game that's still a work-in-progress, however, I would do something slightly different. I would still go with the "six passive traits" system, but I would make levels 10, 30, and 50's passive traits into "skill traits." These traits would affect skills exclusively in ways that Runes don't. For example, Inspiring Presence, a Barbarian passive trait that causes Shouts to regenerate health, would become a "skill trait." Other examples include Tactical Advantage (Demon Hunter), Chant of Resonance (Monk), Bad Medicine (Witch Doctor), and Prodigy (Wizard). Since this theoretical game would still be a work-in-progress, I would suggest that passive and skill traits be a lot more in number so that even should a series of optimal builds emerge, there would still be a number of different viable builds for players to mess around with. Additionally, I would probably make them more extreme than the examples I listed so that it actually feels like a player might want to mostly use the skills they specialize into through their traits. For example, instead of Shouts regenerating health, I would make a skill trait that turns Shouts into Auras that are deactivated when the skill is swapped out or another Shout is used. The things in the current passive system (regenerating life while Shouts are active, lol) would work better as item affixes so that some items are actually interesting as well.

tl;dr:

I wrote a bunch of words that noone will care about (especially not Blizzard). Also, make passive traits a more permanent type of specialization while removing the Nephalem Valor punishment for switching out skills.

[Vook]

Yeah, it is kinda weird that they'd endorse switching skills on the fly, but then punish us for doing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Truhan]

It's not like Diablo 2 punished people for switching skills on the fly. It just allowed you to have several skills you could specialize in (i.e. Minionmancer, Bonemancer, Poisonmancer, etc.) and you would switch out the skills you specialize in on the fly. Since their "solution" to bad affixes is that players should either get better gear or switch out skills, I say just make the latter option viable. But again, it's not like my opinion means much of anything.

[greech]

I don't see any reason at all to make NV remain through talent switches. Let's say you're progressing through an act and you hit a champ pack you just can't kill with your current set up and for whatever reason can't manage to just flat out skip, you now have a choice to make, you can either switch your skills and grab something that will allow you take take down that pack and continue progressing at the expense of some MF/GF, or simply develop a different strategy for using the skills you got your stacks with. When it comes to farm time, at least in my experience, you can pretty much play any skill set you find enjoyable and be able to take out any pack you encounter fairly efficiently, assuming you aren't trying to farm an act you have only recently completed.

[Beruwan]

I do not agree. If you are facing a champion pack that you absolutely cannot kill, you are not geared enough. Simple as that.

Working as intended.

[Varyk]

I don't agree at all that you get "punished" for switching skills. You lose a buff (that they decided to give you to make gearing faster, they didn't have to), big deal.

[Deleted]

I do not agree. If you are facing a champion pack that you absolutely cannot kill, you are not geared enough. Simple as that.

Working as intended.

When you find "horde+illusionist+invulnerable minions+vortex", you might change your mind.

EDIT: not that changing skills would help in that combo, but just stating that there ARE impossible packs. The main problem is the "open free random" generation of the afix.

[Seezer]

I don't agree at all that you get "punished" for switching skills. You lose a buff (that they decided to give you to make gearing faster, they didn't have to), big deal.

And since that buff is pretty significant at 5 stacks, going though mobs with a defensive build, and then switching to your MEGA DAMAGE build for the boss makes getting the NV buff trivial. You have a decision to make. They may as well just keep it locked on your screen forever at that point. NV was a great thing that they put in the game, yet people still want to bitch that it's not good enough.

[Duskmourne]

I personally think that respecing should cost 1 neph stack. That way you can sacrifice a little momentum to deal with an impossible pack, without totally abandoning all of your hard earned gains.