Inscription - Huge server problem. One player with absolute AH control.

[Synstir]

No no this is not correct at all ignore this assholes statement. Hes fucking up your servers econmoy report his ass and have every scribe you know do it and report the same claims. Make sure you give the GMs the time and exact details of when he says these things and if you can proof that he gives his gold away to the sellers. He will get banned so fast if you get multiple people to complain about him giving/selling gold to the sellers. He also might be using illegal add ons to make his transactions. Theres no way he spends that much time on the AH all day, he obviously has a bot that sits at the AH and does that. Which is totally illegal to, take some action and get his ass banned dude.

Dont listen to this dumb fuck above me.

Is he doing something that is illegal ingame? So if he wants to be online 24/7, isn't that his choice? If he wants to sell something on the AH, isn't that his choice? If he wants to do it cheaper than everyoine else, isn't that his choice?
If he want o give away his gold, isn't that his choice?

He puts in time, effort to do this; it is the way he wants to play wow. If the others wants to sell, well then they should put in more effort, more time. Simple, is it not?

If you think he is botting, then he should be reported. If so, then Blizzard will take the necesaary actions. If not, well then.. it is a free market.

[Gray_Matter]

Gray matter the ah person sounds as though he has substantial resources and likely to know his way round. Your plan is poor because inflating the price of ah herbs will only affect him if he is using the ah to acquire herbs. Destroying markets is easy. The reason your plan fails is because the guy has other sources to make his glyphs and far more resources in time and gold than the op.

The point is that most AH posting addon's use the AH prices to determine whether it's worth selling something or not. They won't post something at a loss. It's unlikely that a person spending 24/7 on the AH has much in the way of programming skill so they would not be changing the addon's.

[Deleted]

They might use addons, but they also pay attention to what the market price is. People can and will post something at a loss if they decide they want market share. His ability to make a profit is different if he is farming his own herbs, has a very big stockpile or has someone supplying him with herbs outside the AH. People dont get rich by being so reliant on addons.

[Gray_Matter]

They might use addons, but they also pay attention to what the market price is. People can and will post something at a loss if they decide they want market share. His ability to make a profit is different if he is farming his own herbs, has a very big stockpile or has someone supplying him with herbs outside the AH. People dont get rich by being so reliant on addons.

That's one way. The other is to just camp the AH.

[Amaascus]

Choose the glyph he has the most of up on the AH and undercut it by half. He will become your best customer

[Deleted]

The point is that most AH posting addon's use the AH prices to determine whether it's worth selling something or not. They won't post something at a loss. It's unlikely that a person spending 24/7 on the AH has much in the way of programming skill so they would not be changing the addon's.

Without wanting to cause offence, you have clearly never used an AH addon, or if you had you never really played with the options, or selected a pants addon, as i can absolutely guarentee you the way you "think" it works isn't the way it actually works.

Example:
I have a "friend" who'll farm me as much whiptail as i want to buy and his price is 20g a stack, I know I can make 2 glyphs on average from a stack, so all i'm going to do is set my AH mod's minimum price of all my glyph group to 15g (or w/e profit margin I am happy with). As you can see, it doesn't ever consider the AH price of herbs - why would it - seeing as i'm not actually ever buying the AH herbs.

You are actually over complicating things, you tell the mod what min/max price to post an item at and at what quantites/duration and it really is that simple. They will also most definately post something at a loss, they will always obey w/e rules the AH mod has set for the item.

4) Maybe not, but it's not about what his cost actually is, it's about what his auto AH tool thinks the cost is. There is a big differenece.

Exactly, the difference is you think he's using the AH price, when he's actually using his grey matter *see what i did there * and using his actual price.

So the whole theory of driving up the AH herb price doesn't ever factor into things. Granted some glyph sellers will be buying herbs from the AH, but if he's got a monopoly on it as the OP suggests I bet every bit of gold I've ever earned that he's decided long ago to secure a stable hassle free way of buying herbs in bulk as and when he needs it, not to mention several Royal Scribe bags filled with Inks. The monopoly seller isn't "most people" by definition, he's the ONE person on the server with a monopoly.

As someone said earlier in the thread, the problem many people have is that they simply don't "get" the monopoly quantities and try and approach things from a small scale point of view. He's operating it like a professional business, he's got the mods/equipment he needs, he's got all the glyphs in the game, and he's got one or more suppliers lined up to provide him with materials and he's got stocks - be it in Inks or Glyphs - to fall back on if magically all the herb nodes on Azeroth dissappeared for a month he's still going to be kicking out his glyphs. Lastly he's decided that he's going to be the one to camp the AH to keep his monopoly.

Your options are still 3:
a) crash the market for as long as possible, out of some form of spite.
b) move on to different market
c) Out AH camp him - battle of wills kinda thing.

[greenn]

I dont understand how scribes still think they can make money at the end of an expansion. Every other profession is sitting by, waiting for mists to drop so they can level up again, every single thread about AH manipulation is by scribes at this point, and you only buy a glyph once and forget about it.

Let him control to AH, save all your inks until mists and sell them to the thousands of new monks who roll. You will make more money then than this guy is making in the year prior.

If you have a problem, undercut him by 50 gold instead of the one copper people normally do, crash the market and let him save his own inks till he gets rich of the monk goldmine. Stop Bittching about how a capitalist market works and make it work for you, or get out and farm dailies like the people who actually bring gold into the economy do.

erm.. its not like the situation will change. the dude will probably still control the market.

and i make about 10k per day from inscription and i dont even cancel auctions to undercut people, i post twice per day. its definitely not a lot of gold compared to other ah people but its still decent.

[Windfury]

Couple of options.

Check undermine journal, if he is genuinely on 24/7 for weeks at a time then he is botting or account sharing, everyone has to sleep sometime. Report his ass until blizzard does something.

If you're exaggerating and he just plays a lot then deep undercut, drop the bottom out of the market. He'll get bored and go away eventually, but you need to have your own big stockpile and/or suppliers to do it right. It might take months for him to get sick of it and you have to keep at it consistantly for as long as it takes. You won't be making a ton off of glyphs in the meantime either, which is why everyone constantly talks about diversifying.

[anothdae]

Choose the glyph he has the most of up on the AH and undercut it by half. He will become your best customer

QFT.

Seriously. Stop crying that someone plays the game better than you. Find the highest priced glyphs on the AH and post auctions at half the price. Repeat. Either he buys you out, in which case... profit, or he undercuts and drives it to the bottom.

If you tank the market, you win. You deny him the gold that he works so hard for, and maybe make a little in the process.


Honestly the OP sounds a bit like the small shop owner that is pissed when walmart comes in.

Super sorry dude that you cant gorge your server on glyph prices...

---------- Post added 2012-07-05 at 07:10 AM ----------

Why would a person devote so much effort into bringing only bad stuff to others....

Sounds to me like he is bringing lower prices to everyone on your server.

[Deleted]

1) Transfer to another server.
2) Profit.

[lanerios]

Or just do how you are supposed to do it, undercut the bastard just above vendor value. Trust me it helps, I have reset many a market this way.

[Deleted]

Several problems with undercutting him.

1. He has obviously a large reserve of gold and can afford to be frivolous by giving it away
2. He probably has the Remote AH option enable on his account and can work the AH by mobile phone.
3. Other sellers dont have the reserves so cannot afford the fight

If he is manipulating the market to keep others from making any sales then he should be reported as mentioned earlier.

Good luck.

[ZeroWashu]

Wonder what would happen limiting the amount of auctions posted at one time to 10 like D3 would do to these people?

It would kill certain professions and reduce it to trade channel spam. Think about it, jc, alchemy, and inscription, are all volume skills. How many cuts are there? How many glyphs? Etc... Lets not even begin to discuss what would happen to the mats market.


The only change that the AH needs is to raise deposits on auctions over a set amount. As in posting cost should be related to the sales cost.

---------- Post added 2012-07-09 at 06:32 AM ----------

How have you broken his monopoly? All you have done is undercut him. he replies by undercutting back and then you reply the same way. It doesnt mean he will be making gold. An undercutting war can carry on for ages. All it would do is destroy the market.

If you read the op you will realise he doesnt have a lot of time and he doesnt have a lot of money. His competitor is more commited, experienced and has more time and money.It is unlikely he can win a war of attrition, but that would be more likely with the help of all the other scribes.

If you read further up the thread you will see he isnt on 24/7.

I posted before and I will post again. The key to making money in any market controlled by one or more people is to redefine the market. You do so by setting the market price on all items. To do so requires you know your costs. What most people do wrong is that they want to control the market; they also are the very first never to admit their ambition outstrips their ability; but they don't want to put the time in and then they get frustrated.

Figure you materials cost. It takes four stacks of herbs to make a stack of inks on average.
Can you double your investment in mats and still undercut the AH significantly? If not, its probably not worth it.
Set your price significantly lower that those who are running the AH. Post ONE item at a time, TWO at most. Post for 48 hours.

Your goal is not to suddenly sweep up the market, your goal is too sell that item, even it means selling it to the guy who "owns" the AH.

So, do not undercut those who control the market by 1c, 1g, or what not. You set a new market price for the item that puts a real dent into the other guys money machine. You keep those prices there forever. You can undercut his undercuts of your new low price by 1c. You just flat out ruin his market. It works best where the market price is 100g or such, in that case I would go with 75g or even 50g per glyph. I would post them for 48hrs. I will never post below cost. Post singles. If the market price is 200g (my server was 249g) then set at 99g. Watch the fur fly

You make money by selling items, you do not make money playing the undercut game

[Deleted]

1. You havent applied your advice to the OP as you can see his limitations, so your advice is impractical for him.

2. Figuring material cost is a sound starting point. The guy is trapped into the inscription market despite people telling him to diversify. If his material costs dont give him the profit he wants i.e 200%, then your advice is not worth it. Fair enough but he also wont be selling anything. Also bear in mind your material costs may be different from the guy who dominates the AH.

3. Lets follow that idea of you lowering the price of goods because you go for deep undercutting. If you go for a 50% undercut then you are already selling your items at cost i.e will make no money,but hurt his profit margins as well.
The dominant player can either let you lower the market to this level or he can buy that person out.
In the first situation the newcomer makes minimal profit because all thats happened is the profit in the market has been destroyed for everyone.
In the situation where the dominant player buys the newcomer out, then minimal benefit will have been gained, but the dominant player can reset the market to a higher level. The key would be to become his supplier so low enough so he has to /wants to buy but where you can still make a profit. The dominant player is likely to have lower production costs.

4. I have said before its easy to destroy markets, but harder to maintain profitable ones. All your tactic does is lower the proft potential.

5. The guy sat there with the experience and 1m gold plus reserves can use those. His costs may be lower because not everyone sources from the ah. Instead of deep undercutting he can just retaliate by cutting down to cost and then its a case of who sticks things out longer. It will not be the OP because he doesnt have the time. If he wants to be very agressive then he can sell at less than cost. He has the resources.

6. Finally you tell us "you do not make money playing the undercut game ", but have previously said " You can undercut his undercuts of your new low price by 1c."
Errr that is the undercut game. Be the cheapest and preferably sell at a profit. Your plan is flawed because the dominant player will simply respond. This may be by undercutting, be that minor or major or he could simply destroy the market himself and thereby take a time out. Destroying his market from its current level doesnt make you any richer it just pulls him down to your less profitable area. These things are always war of attritions.
I'm good enough at making gold and an important part of any ah strategy is the need to be the cheapest which makes undercutting essential. All deep undercutting achieves is you may deter someone from following you down long enough to sell a few goods, but its unlikely to give you control once he realises, then a response will happen. The purchaser is only interested in buying from the cheapest.
You will often make more money on fewer sales in a profitable market than by selling many items in a market where everyone is selling at cost.
Other tactics have been suggested on the board which I think offer the OP a far greater prospect of making money.

[Buryit]

Dear Blizzard, A player is selling and controlling the ah on scribe crap, he gives away free gold to others in trade, please stop this mean person who is really just trolling us and having fun making us hate life. oh the humanity.........pay for a server transfer or just sell all your stuff cheap than him even if it is free.

[Deleted]

I posted before and I will post again. The key to making money in any market controlled by one or more people is to redefine the market.

Well it was garbage advise both times you posted for exactly the reasons tigger mentions.

You make money by selling items, you do not make money playing the undercut game

You sell items by winning the undercut game and thus make money.

[Zeta333]

No no this is not correct at all ignore this assholes statement. Hes fucking up your servers econmoy report his ass and have every scribe you know do it and report the same claims. Make sure you give the GMs the time and exact details of when he says these things and if you can proof that he gives his gold away to the sellers. He will get banned so fast if you get multiple people to complain about him giving/selling gold to the sellers. He also might be using illegal add ons to make his transactions. Theres no way he spends that much time on the AH all day, he obviously has a bot that sits at the AH and does that. Which is totally illegal to, take some action and get his ass banned dude.

Dont listen to this dumb fuck above me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what he is doing, You just dont like it cus your not as good at playing the market or have enough free time, You cant penalize someone for putting effort into the game hes playing, Everything hes doing is 100% legal. Move to a new server if you dont like it or advertise in trade chat.

[Deleted]

So, do not undercut those who control the market by 1c, 1g, or what not. You set a new market price for the item that puts a real dent into the other guys money machine. You keep those prices there forever. You can undercut his undercuts of your new low price by 1c. You just flat out ruin his market. It works best where the market price is 100g or such, in that case I would go with 75g or even 50g per glyph. I would post them for 48hrs. I will never post below cost. Post singles. If the market price is 200g (my server was 249g) then set at 99g. Watch the fur fly

A guy does that on my server.

I simply adapted: Instead of regularly posting one glyph of each for 12h, I now post 3-4 of each for 48h immediately after he's done posting. Undercutting him by 1c.

What he is (you are) basically doing is accept lower profit margins in exchange for less time posting. That's your "redefinition of the market".

What you forget is your new "definition" works as well for your competitor as it does for you, if he adapts.