Haste Plateau Confusion

[chazus]

So, I'm just flat confused.

There is a huge guide by Kilee that says that at 2589 Haste, stack mastery if your sim says to (I cannot reach 3202 just yet).

Yet on shadowpriest.com, where that post originated from, there is a sticky that says haste plateau's don't exist, and it's arguement makes sense.

I don't know if I should be stacking mastery after 2589, or stacking haste to probably about 3000, and it seems like the two camps are pretty evenly divided.

How does an 'extra tick' help me, if I'm refreshing the dots anyway, and ANY haste regardless of plateaus reduces times between ticks? Am I benefitting because I have to recast less? If that's the case, more haste would help because the 'final tick' is irrelevant since I'm just renewing towards the end of the spell anyway.

[Soisoisoi]

More ticks in the same time period = more damage for the duration.

[Ravyna]

if you are are below a hastecap let´s say vor vt the duration for vt drops below the original 15 sec that means you have to refresh it more often
the duration is at right 15 sec at the 2589 haste plateau and drops further and further until you reach the next cap
so reaching the cap just means you have to refresh the dot less often

[chazus]

More ticks in the same time period = more damage for the duration.

This to me says stack haste. More haste = more ticks in a time period

so reaching the cap just means you have to refresh the dot less often

This to me says stack mastery. Since once you hit the haste plateau, you refresh less often, which means more casting time for other stuff.

[Ravyna]

haste is still a strong stat with 4p t13 usually mastery gets stronger then haste after the cap
without it depends on you stats (simcraft says hi^^)

[Soisoisoi]

This to me says stack haste. More haste = more ticks in a time period


This to me says stack mastery. Since once you hit the haste plateau, you refresh less often, which means more casting time for other stuff.

Generally with most dot/hot classes it goes as follows:
1)Stack haste until you reach whatever haste plateau your gear can handle.
2)Stack X stat (mastery in this case) past that Haste Plateau until you can reach the next plateau with more gear.
3)See step 1.

But it depends what works better for your gear, sim it, as they said. For a Spriest, Haste is pretty much always awesome.

[chazus]

So is the sticky on shadowpriest.com that says "Haste Plateaus Don't Exist" wrong, then?

EDiT for reference: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30171

[Saevio]

Here is a good rule of thumb to follow for your spriest. If you have 4 piece t13, go to a haste breakpoint, then reforge rest for mastery. If you don't have 4pt13, just stack haste. Haste, regardless of what everyone says about haste plateaus etc etc is still the spriest best stat.

[Ravyna]

So is the sticky on shadowpriest.com that says "Haste Plateaus Don't Exist" wrong, then?

EDiT for reference: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30171

yes and no its not like haste is useless in between caps for dots but haste gets stronger in relation to other stats when you are near to reaching caps

[Saevio]

So is the sticky on shadowpriest.com that says "Haste Plateaus Don't Exist" wrong, then?

EDiT for reference: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30171

If you read further into that post, you will see many arguments that disprove what the OP is saying, but you decide for yourself.

[chazus]

If you read further into that post, you will see many arguments that disprove what the OP is saying, but you decide for yourself.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I figured there was a reason for it to be stickied if it wasn't important, as it's almost the first thing people see.

[Saevio]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I figured there was a reason for it to be stickied if it wasn't important, as it's almost the first thing people see.

Assuming a post is stickied because only what the OP said is important is bad mojo. Kilee gives a lot of information in that thread as well on the 7th page which might also be a reason why it is stickied. Go read what kilee says on page 7. DO IT! YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!

[Felade]

Go with Kilee's post.

Yes you get more ticks in the duration (or rather, the duration resets to its original duration, and you get an extra tick), but most of the damage increase you get from reaching a plateau is from the ability to fit an additional filler in without having to recast your DOTs. If you have to move (and thus, can't cast your filler), you will get less of a benefit from Haste (that is why it is really good to try to only move while casting instants or while your GCD is already going, and minimize movement otherwise). Sometimes it might make more sense to just reforge down to the plateau below and go with more mastery (because Mastery will scale your DOT damage a bit better). Mostly, though, just stacking haste is fine, just make sure to minimize movement and make sure you're clipping your DOTs at the right time.

Yeah the sticky is a little old too. Here's some of the stuff he says:

1) Gaining an extra DoT tick does not increase your DoT dps.

Nope. But it does increase the DPCT.

2) Gaining an extra DoT tick increases your MF dps, but only a little

.

That is roughly equivalent to 50 Intellect. (consider how tiny this is at 85)

Consider, that is the equivalent of replacing 5 of your Rare 40 int gems with 50 int epic gems (50-40=10*5=50 Int) - and people would pay 5000g a pop just for that extra 10 intellect.

3) External buffs will ruin your precisely-calculated Haste breakpoint.

At certain points, yes, but only in a positive manner, and only the Haste procs, and they don't have 100% uptime anyway, which means they aren't as relevant for gearing.

Read some of the later posts that essentially refute the post. Perhaps it needs to be taken down, but I think it does bring up some good issues, and helps us all be more aware of DOT mechanics. DOTs are the antithesis of DPS - DPS is all about doing as much damage as quickly as possible, while DOTs are all about doing damage over an extended period instead of all at once. The strength of DOTs is they have ludicrously high DPCT - in other words, you can cast them, and they will continue to do their damage for a long period, and then you can go cast something else. That is why your filler (MF) will always be a really high proportion of your damage on single targets.

[lwalker8]

Both ways work. One or the other seems to be better depending on the boss, the duration of the fight ect ect ... it's not a big deal either way. But pick one way or the other and go with it. I have always recommended 30% raid buffed haste and then stack mastery. But others have gone all haste and it works great, too.

[Deleted]

Actually a dot does NOT reset to its original duration when you gain a tick, instead its duration is LONGER than the original duration.

As quoted from the Shadowpriest link:
This is one of the more counterintuitive functions of Haste:
i) At 9.99% haste, you get 5 ticks of VT over 13.64s. (one tick every 2.73s)
ii) At 10% haste, you get 6 ticks of VT over 16.36s. (one tick every 2.73s)

If you refresh VT every 13 seconds or every 16 seconds doesnt really matter that much though it "screws" with your rotation a bit, since we aim to have SWP, VT and DP up 99.99% of the time anyways even if you gain one tick of any dot over the course of a fight you gain DPS, mana is of absolute no concern assuming your using your Fiend and Angel in a timely fashion absolutely no need to weave in SWD on any fight before the target is below 25%