"Combat is not innovative enough"

[Dempsey]

How many different ways can you swing a sword?

this is what the OP is saying there is only so much you can add to a game before it becomes a whole differant game you can't take an FPS and add a kick and a punch that wouldn't be enough now we need combos these combos become more complicated now we have True Crime but wait guns are now too overpowered they take away from my ability to kick you in the face make you back flip and break your neck mid flight to make guns only usable with a certain combo, now you have Mortal Combat. (more or less this is kind of what the OP is saying)

GW2 has a differant combat system then WoW, WoW is differant then Terra but really can you add them all together with out ripping off them? GW2's combat system is enough to keep me entertained. active enough to be challenging yet simple enough to enjoy.

[Queen of Hamsters]

WoW lets bad players progress. GW2 makes bad players learn or die

Not really. Argument used by people not knowing better. I see no bad players in top tiers in WoW, or with the best possible rewards, and I play this game as we speak and don't hold a grudge to either game.

GW2 ain't brain surgery either though, I know this from having tried it. You died? Oh, just back up when the mob hunkers down or lifts its paw. Or back up when you can't take hits. Aggroing? Get behind another player and stop attacking. Save your heals for when you actually need them, don't heal at the start of a fight before you know how hard the mob will hit you.

That's the easy way.

Then there's people like myself, concerned with doing their best and really BEATING content, and there's room for us as well. But nobody can go around saying that GW2 will not reward "bad" players or not very hardcore players, because it will...Anet would be fools to not cater to such a large group of customers.

It's just a game.

Simple stuff really for anyone with medium skill and up. No game rewards the bad players with the BEST rewards...they can get fun stuff, but will never reach the top shelf. Butthurt people just say that about WoW because it's human nature to feel a bit better when bashing something/someone.

[DrakeWurrum]

Not really. Argument used by people not knowing better. I see no bad players in top tiers in WoW, or with the best possible rewards

You haven't looked very hard. O_o

It's not an argument used by people who know better when I've seen it with my own eyes - I'm not just using it to be ridiculously bitter and bash the game.

[Odeezee]

That's not really true. I have missed plenty of times w/ my Priest's line shots in Tera. The thing is monsters are freakin' huge in Tera.

Also mobs have heat seeking attacks in GW2 as well. -_-

some shots fire in a line, but there are many that are guided by the combat ai. projectile attacks in GW2 are target-assisted but they do not truly heat-seek as they go to where the ai thinks you will be based on your current trajectory and velocity, so you can slow down, speed up or change direction and the projectile, once in flight, will miss, no dodge required.

First off...source on all that "target assisting" stuff? That's the first I've heard of any of it beyond the fact that, "Enemies are huge, have huge hitboxes, and aren't hard to keep in your crosshairs"

either use a ranged class like a priest or fight ranged casters and you will see what i mean about the target-assist. TERA also uses lock-on, hit-scanning and large hit box for targets which extend outside of the actual target's shape.

About the GW2/WoW/TERA comparisons...you're picking at some overall minor details all things considered. Some of it is like saying that two apples of different varieties are completely different, when in reality they are both still apples. Cross profession combo's are definitely something pretty unique to GW2 though (Not going to say completely unique as there might be another game I don't know about that uses a very similar system. I know games use co-op combos, I just can't think of any that work like they do in GW2.

these are not minor details at all when it comes to combat: they dictate how combat works, how it feels and most importantly how skilled one has to be to be proficient.

American football when played in the US; rugby when played anywhere else.

i hope you know that those are two completely different sports. Go All Blacks!

Please don't tell me that you truly believe this combat model is innovative? From melee and ranged abilities that do their full animation regardless if they are in range of the target to the overall zerg fest aspect of many encounters it certainly is not innovative, less someone thinks that we needed shadow boxing back in MMOs. Its combat that to me is the one big detractor from an otherwise good looking game. Sorry, if I am not in range then don't cast the attack - it looks cheap.

this is a perfect example of a user problem and not a game problem.

GW2 is not innovating like that, thank god. The dodge roll mechanic is in the Secret World too, and its out before GW2, so its hard to call that innovating. The weapon choice changing your abilities is slightly innovative, but its really just limiting class abilities by weapon, which other MMOs have done, just not to such a level. I can't see much else being that innovative about it, its hit the button does the ability combat.

first, TSW just added dodge to combat 3 weeks ago, i know i was in the CBT, so they did not innovate by adding it first, they just released before GW2, and second it was tacked on last minute. second, the dodge in TSW is virtually useless: at best it may be able to avoid a melee attack once every 10 seconds, it does not avoid ranged skills at all, it is not augmented by any other skills (active/passive) i.e. it serves no real purpose outside of just saying, "hey we have dodge in our game too".

[DrakeWurrum]

Then there's people like myself, concerned with doing their best and really BEATING content, and there's room for us as well. But nobody can go around saying that GW2 will not reward "bad" players or not very hardcore players, because it will...Anet would be fools to not cater to such a large group of customers.

You're making the mistake of associating the word "hardcore" with skill, rather than with spending ridiculously large amounts of time playing the game.

It's worth noting that, yes, bad players will be punished for being bad. If they can't learn how to succeed, they will die again and again. Plenty of people would run into melee range even after getting rezzed, only to get smashed again, against a champion where melee range is not recommended.

Did the boss eventually "die" because of the smart players? Did they still technically get gold participation? Sure. They got those rewards. But this is basically quest content where zerging allows you to get the rewards. And those rewards, in the long-run, don't actually make that much of a difference. It's only your standard DE currency.
Those bads won't last long in dungeons without learning how not to die. They might still do fine in EDEs I suppose, but that's only in theory since we have only seen Shadow Behemoth - considering that EDEs are meant to be, well.. Elite... I think the ANet devs would be allowed some leeway in making them actually hard, to the point that the less-skilled players will constantly complain about not being able to complete them and/or get rewards from them. That being said, ANet also said they have no desire to design PvE competitively (yet), so I won't be surprised if EDEs are zergable, too.
Will have to wait and see.

[rhandric]

Not really. Argument used by people not knowing better. I see no bad players in top tiers in WoW, or with the best possible rewards,

So you're going to tell me that there aren't people in heroic raiding guilds that are carried? Speaking from experience, back in the days of heroic ICC (25) my guild was carrying ~3-5 people a week, based on their performance. Same goes for every tier that I've raided, that was just the longest tier so where it stands out the most.

Moving back when the mob uses a certain animation? Sure, that's what you should do. Now go teach that to the 20% of your guild that gets carried in raids...and as I said, they'll learn or they'll die. If they move from that...guess what, they learned! They don't have a tank/healer to keep them alive, or dps to shoulder the weight of killing the target, they have to take care of themselves.

Sure, in a dungeon it might be possible to be carried, but if you're pugging I would expect the worse players to regularly be kicked from groups from constantly dying and being a hinderence rather than an aid, though at the same time it greatly depends on the community. As long as people are having fun it really shouldn't matter, though I expect later in the game, as is wont to happen, those who want/expect a smooth run will carefully tailor their groups, and everyone else will do what they want...as they should

---------- Post added 2012-06-29 at 11:46 AM ----------

You're making the mistake of associating the word "hardcore" with skill, rather than with spending ridiculously large amounts of time playing the game.

It's worth noting that, yes, bad players will be punished for being bad. If they can't learn how to succeed, they will die again and again. Plenty of people would run into melee range even after getting rezzed, only to get smashed again, against a champion where melee range is not recommended.

Did the boss eventually "die" because of the smart players? Did they still technically get gold participation? Sure. They got those rewards. But this is basically quest content where zerging allows you to get the rewards. And those rewards, in the long-run, don't actually make that much of a difference. It's only your standard DE currency.
Those bads won't last long in dungeons without learning how not to die. They might still do fine in EDEs I suppose, but that's only in theory since we have only seen Shadow Behemoth - considering that EDEs are meant to be, well.. Elite... I think the ANet devs would be allowed some leeway in making them actually hard, to the point that the less-skilled players will constantly complain about not being able to complete them and/or get rewards from them. That being said, ANet also said they have no desire to design PvE competitively (yet), so I won't be surprised if EDEs are zergable, too.
Will have to wait and see.

Pretty much this, and pay special attention to the last line

[DrakeWurrum]

I still think the main advantage here is that the "rewards" you get don't directly contribute to artificial power increases. In WoW, if you get carried by a good raiding guild, you get also get gear that might fool you into thinking you're just as good as the best of your guild. In GW2... that's not going to happen.

[rhandric]

I still think the main advantage here is that the "rewards" you get don't directly contribute to artificial power increases. In WoW, if you get carried by a good raiding guild, you get also get gear that might fool you into thinking you're just as good as the best of your guild. In GW2... that's not going to happen.

Yeah. This is what I was implying with the "WoW rewards bad players...." statement, but it seems some people take offense to observations

[Fencers]

Well, a lot of games with combat gameplay of Warcraft are just really advanced pattern games. Bosses have a definite pattern, power progression has a very defined path, rotation in combat is a series of hierarchical key presses, etc. Nothing wrong with this, per se. Players just have to recognize that the excitement isn't derived from "swinging a sword" as it would be in more action orientated games. Which Warcraft/TOR/Tera/Rift really aren't.

[Window]

I actually really liked AoC's combat system, so eh. Combos really weren't hard to perform, and if you were having issues landing them on moving (Read: Player) targets, there's a slew of methods to set up the combos better or land them more reliably.

It's the only MMO where I really felt like a genuinely great player could shine. In PvE and especially PvP. Watching one player just chew through multiple opponents just on virtue of being able to dodge combos while landing theirs was really satisfying.

Oh yes the age of conan combo system with circle jerking nothing like getting decapiated by americans with better ping than you

[Deleted]

That's not really true. I have missed plenty of times w/ my Priest's line shots in Tera. The thing is monsters are freakin' huge in Tera.

Also mobs have heat seeking attacks in GW2 as well. -_-

im guessing its something other than heat seeking otherwise you could just set light to a nearby mob, hey presto !

[Deleted]

TERA Combat + GW2's Other Stuff (much) + Playing Bad Chars (SWToR) + Forgotten Realms (Baldur's Gate II) Races and Classes + R. A. Salvatores Lore = BEST.GAME.EVER