[Megathread] Path of Exile

[infinitemeridian]

I was just watching the GDC about how they designed PoE to be played forever, and the funny thing is, they implement a lot of things that people who complain about WoW and predatory mechanics that prey on addictive nature, some who love this game, are what PoE is all about.

Sems like this board has a hate boner for Titanforging. Well any item that drops in PoE could be an upgrade, might have better set of sockets, may have better stats or affixes. Pretty much the same thing designed to keep you playing to find that upgrade even if it's only 1% as they guy in the video said.

People complain about constantly changing classes yet this a cire staple of PoE, while classes are not set in stone like in WoW, if they see a same "best" spec being played 2 leagues in a row they make changes to it so it is less appealing or others ate more appealing. Sounds exactly the same as class changes or modification of talents so there is not one best option in each row.

They also talked about how people stop playing thier game and how that is the same across all games over time. I don't see people claiming PoE is dying a few weeks after a new content drop when 90% of its players stop playing.

The problem is that WoW is an MMO, not an ARPG - RNG is a feature of the latter and doesn't work well with the former where you're only given limited amounts of tries to get certain pieces of items. In Diablo / PoE, you can keep trying as many times as you want.

[Beefhammer]

The problem is that WoW is an MMO, not an ARPG - RNG is a feature of the latter and doesn't work well with the former where you're only given limited amounts of tries to get certain pieces of items. In Diablo / PoE, you can keep trying as many times as you want.

RNG is a feature of both. RNG is by default a design to make you play more.

They also talked about asset reuse and how it's important because it is too much for artists to constantly make new assets for every new bit that comes out. As well as how it's important to focus on the ig things to fix and ignore little things. Both things people constantly complain about with WoW or Blizzard in general.

[Coldkil]

This year is awesome. First D4, where they showed basically everything i wanted out of it. Super hyped.

And now PoE2. New graphics and animations, new campagn, new endgame, new skill system - again all the stuff that really needed improvements os going to get it.

I'll have so much no life in the future.

[Marrilaife]

Sems like this board has a hate boner for Titanforging. Well any item that drops in PoE could be an upgrade, might have better set of sockets, may have better stats or affixes. Pretty much the same thing designed to keep you playing to find that upgrade even if it's only 1% as they guy in the video said.

Tbh I hate titanforging and "chasing 1% upgrade" is definitely not something I'm gonna do in POE either, no matter how they wrap it. Vast majority of my items will be bought with stats close to what I want and barely ever upgraded, only the expensive slots will be upgraded multiple times because I can't afford "close to bis" early. Items that require rng crafting will never be used in a build and if a build relies on them, I won't play that build. Fuck fossils rly. 2 times I tried to craft something that was meant to be "easy" and gave up every time because didn't get anything close to recommended after 20+ tries, and I'm definitely not interested in spamming hundreds of them.

"Chasing 1% upgrade" is designed around players who zoom zoom through maps and play POE like a full time job whole season, or play standard. I'm a casual player in POE in comparison to the loud minority and I've seen many builds that would be cool to try but it's complete sickness trying to make items required for that build both in time investment to farm the currency and in cross trading the currency you have for the one you need.

If GGG wants more of these, they will push players like me away - players that do reach to maps and probably complete majority of the altas and some of the end bosses, but never reach the "nolife hardcore" status (hardcore as attitude not as playing permadeath mode). Players who can sit in POB and try to tweak the build but still take guidance from other players / written guides and don't make builds from scratch or yolo them. Players who don't wanna stick to fotm build of the season that can do content without heavy investment. So yeah.

I guess they don't care anyway, because the playerbase has few people like me, and most people are either 1) never reaching to maps or falling apart before they reach red maps 2) nolife full time farmers that have endless currency to burn 3) fotm spec players who quit 2-3 weeks into the league and wait for the new season and new fotm to try.

People complain about constantly changing classes yet this a cire staple of PoE, while classes are not set in stone like in WoW, if they see a same "best" spec being played 2 leagues in a row they make changes to it so it is less appealing or others ate more appealing. Sounds exactly the same as class changes or modification of talents so there is not one best option in each row.

It's a bit too huge swings in balance lately especially last 2-3 seasons, but overall in POE at least you have hope that one day your favourite class will have their moment to shine. In WOW I can honestly say my main wasn't fotm for at least 5 years, and from personal experience when I played (had a break in MOP) it wasn't fotm since that one patch in wotlk. So yeah, fuck that "balancing" when specific classes are fotm 50% of the time while some others are practically never.

Also POE when you play leagues you're expected to swap character every 3 months. WOW makes is a diarrhea to reroll anytime outside of major expacs (every 2 years) while every xpac has 3-4 minor and major patches that can nerf / buff classes. POE isn't in the same boat as MOBAs or team shooters where you can swap hero on a whim, but closer to it than MMOs where it's expected to stick to a character for prolonged periods of time.

I don't see people claiming PoE is dying a few weeks after a new content drop when 90% of its players stop playing.

Yeah, people did whine in Blight "dead league" and "flashback when" all over the place, but since every league is a fresh start, people are less likely to be prevented from coming back by "feeling behind" which is often the case in games that carry over their content like MMO or even hearthstone. On the other hand this model has this downside that having to re-unlock everything every season can start feeling tedious and boring. No wonder they're trying to shake up levelling and ascending (lots of people hate the labs).

[Beefhammer]

a lot of words

So it's not that they are chasing those types of players, basically 80% of all players stop playing once they complete the campaigns. They tackle some of the new league stuffs while levelling but stop once the finish. 20% stick around the whole time. 10% really get into the meta game of a league.

I was just pointing out they they and Blizzard, specifically WoW have a lot of the same design pillars in regards to playing forever. I just find it odd that these are bashed to and fro about WoW or other Blizzard games, and seen as high points about PoE.

The point for both is to get players to come back when something is new, a content patch, a new expansion, or a new league and to keep as many playing til another new content drop. All the while trying to get players to buy stuff, PoE with cosmetics and support packs and WoW with expansions and pets/mounts.

Just funny seeing that Blizzard is bad and GGG is good. GgG also mentioned that developers are dumb to use day night cycles because it takes away so much you can do with reusing assets as well as hey love reusing content, another thing Blizzard gets shit for but people eat it up in PoE.

[Onikaroshi]

Different people, anyone with half a brain understands why assets get reused.

Now reused to the level of say Dragon Soul? thats a bit excessive.

[Vocah]

Different people, anyone with half a brain understands why assets get reused.

Now reused to the level of say Dragon Soul? thats a bit excessive.

Eh, a big part of the Dragon Soul raid was reused RIGHT, it was an attack on Wyrmrest Temple so them reusing those assets is the correct course. A big annoyance to me were the two side-locations and in general the dragon-taxi rides, would have been more epic if we had to fight our way upwards.
@Beefhammer Like someone else already answered, it's the difference between an ARPG and an MMO.

[Marrilaife]

Just funny seeing that Blizzard is bad and GGG is good. GgG also mentioned that developers are dumb to use day night cycles because it takes away so much you can do with reusing assets as well as hey love reusing content, another thing Blizzard gets shit for but people eat it up in PoE.

The difference is POE is free. So yeah they can get away with cash shop and asset reuse etc. Diablo 3 you had to pay for, then pay for the expansion, then pay for Necro DLC, I expect D4 to be the same, probably even with more DLCs and a cash shop.

WOW is even "worse" in that aspect that it requires monthly sub and a fee for each xpac. People expect to get new content every month, because they sub (even though silent majority probably subs for a couple of months per year when new content drops and then unsubs, only dedicated minority stays all year round), because of sub they're also more harsh towards mtx like mounts, pets and toys. Many other MMOs have cash shops and xpac / DLC fees but don't require a sub (looking at you, Guild Wars 2 and ESO).

On a side note, I'm glad POE2 will update character models and portraits, the game is in awful need of this, the noodle-arm witch and disproportionate marauder especially.

[Mamut]

I really don't wanna play "Diablo: the MMO edition".

What MMO edition? Killing some world boss with others players once in a while make it MMO? Most of the time you will play just solo unless you party up with someone.

Still, I'm rooting for both games, because... you know, nothing says we can't have 2 really amazing aRPGs to enjoy.

Yeah I totally agree, Im big fan of ARPG games and I will never undestand people who feel the need to shiit on game from other company to "defend their game".

[Cairhiin]

That looked promising, some exciting times for ARPG fans. Can't wait - gonna be tough waiting that long though.

[Beefhammer]

The difference is POE is free. So yeah they can get away with cash shop and asset reuse etc. Diablo 3 you had to pay for, then pay for the expansion, then pay for Necro DLC, I expect D4 to be the same, probably even with more DLCs and a cash shop.

WOW is even "worse" in that aspect that it requires monthly sub and a fee for each xpac. People expect to get new content every month, because they sub (even though silent majority probably subs for a couple of months per year when new content drops and then unsubs, only dedicated minority stays all year round), because of sub they're also more harsh towards mtx like mounts, pets and toys. Many other MMOs have cash shops and xpac / DLC fees but don't require a sub (looking at you, Guild Wars 2 and ESO).

On a side note, I'm glad POE2 will update character models and portraits, the game is in awful need of this, the noodle-arm witch and disproportionate marauder especially.

Here's a little secret, a very large portion, of players buy $60 supporter packs. Each league. People spend more in PoE than people dis to buy D3 and RoS. Yes whales make up a majority of MTX purchases, but supporter packs are bought a lot of people regularly.

- - - Updated - - -

Just one more thing, they just announced they might make other genders for classes and sell them on their shop. People are loving this. But man, if Blizzard did this, even in a F2P game, you know MMO-chapm would have a fit.

And seriously mods, why is there no individual PoE section on this board. Make it. It deserves one.

[LilSaihah]

Conquerors of the Atlas is really exciting, I love the replacement for Shaper/Elder orbs. Being able to level up your whole map will be great.

I was watching one of the gameplay demos on my phone and the volume of the Ranger's skills and those shrapnel turrets was so loud I thought blondie had a shotgun (couldn't see it because tiny screen)... And then I thought that'd be amazing.

[Marrilaife]

Here's a little secret, a very large portion, of players buy $60 supporter packs. Each league.

Any data on that or just assumption? Nearly every f2p game with mtx has a reverse proportion between % of players that buy mtx and revenue from it, namely top 10% spenders provide 90% income or something around that. That's where "whales" and "dolphins" terminology came from. Silent masses play f2p, buy maybe a couple of QoL mtx, never post on forums / reddit and you never see them or hear them.

And about "supporter packs" it's again - you can buy them, buy you don't have to in order to play the game. People didn't hate on mtx in LOL or HOTS because they're f2p games despite obviously the point is to sell as many mtx as you can, it's a business after all. I don't think people even hated on skins in Overwatch even though imo their business model is not something I support (basically lootboxes).

Just one more thing, they just announced they might make other genders for classes and sell them on their shop. People are loving this. But man, if Blizzard did this, even in a F2P game, you know MMO-chapm would have a fit.

Personally I'm waiting for it and hope they make it true. I'd buy a female Marauder in a heartbeat.

Comparing to Blizzard their only f2p games are HOTS and Hearthstone, and afaik the Class Hero reskins were purchased just fine in HS. Unfortunately majority of them were not available through shop but only special promos, which imo is stupid, I wanted to buy Tyrande reskin of Priest and it was like "this promo isn't available in your country", there was a way to cheese it with fake address, but I thought it's too risky and Blizz said they're looking into making her available in other regions. This never happened and it was for me the straw that broke the camel's back and I quit HS. I'm pretty sure if they just put her on the shop for people who couldn't participate in the promo, I would have found it fair.

After D3 both gender heroes it would be weird if D4 didn't have it.

Chris Wilson just said in the interview they can put new stuff in POE, or not put something that never was there, but need to be very careful in removing stuff or people would riot. Status quo is more acceptable than anything that looks like a nerf or taking away options.

D4 did top D3 though saying not only there will be both genders but character customization beyond that. But I'm sure they will have mtx shop, especially since they're introducing mounts and shared world where other people can see your mtx. Same why POE has shared cities so people can show off their armours and character effects.

Also when it comes to WOW, yes some part of community whines every time there's a new cash shop mount, meanwhile the other part of community buys all of them and all the collector's editions and blizzcon tickets and whatnot. So you can't put everyone in the same box.

[Beefhammer]

Any data on that or just assumption? Nearly every f2p game with mtx has a reverse proportion between % of players that buy mtx and revenue from it, namely top 10% spenders provide 90% income or something around that. That's where "whales" and "dolphins" terminology came from. Silent masses play f2p, buy maybe a couple of QoL mtx, never post on forums / reddit and you never see them or hear them.

And about "supporter packs" it's again - you can buy them, buy you don't have to in order to play the game. People didn't hate on mtx in LOL or HOTS because they're f2p games despite obviously the point is to sell as many mtx as you can, it's a business after all. I don't think people even hated on skins in Overwatch even though imo their business model is not something I support (basically lootboxes).

Personally I'm waiting for it and hope they make it true. I'd buy a female Marauder in a heartbeat.

Comparing to Blizzard their only f2p games are HOTS and Hearthstone, and afaik the Class Hero reskins were purchased just fine in HS. Unfortunately majority of them were not available through shop but only special promos, which imo is stupid, I wanted to buy Tyrande reskin of Priest and it was like "this promo isn't available in your country", there was a way to cheese it with fake address, but I thought it's too risky and Blizz said they're looking into making her available in other regions. This never happened and it was for me the straw that broke the camel's back and I quit HS. I'm pretty sure if they just put her on the shop for people who couldn't participate in the promo, I would have found it fair.

After D3 both gender heroes it would be weird if D4 didn't have it.

Chris Wilson just said in the interview they can put new stuff in POE, or not put something that never was there, but need to be very careful in removing stuff or people would riot. Status quo is more acceptable than anything that looks like a nerf or taking away options.

D4 did top D3 though saying not only there will be both genders but character customization beyond that. But I'm sure they will have mtx shop, especially since they're introducing mounts and shared world where other people can see your mtx. Same why POE has shared cities so people can show off their armours and character effects.

Also when it comes to WOW, yes some part of community whines every time there's a new cash shop mount, meanwhile the other part of community buys all of them and all the collector's editions and blizzcon tickets and whatnot. So you can't put everyone in the same box.

Just what I got from listening to stream for exile con and the GDC panel.

[Kelimbror]

Sems like this board has a hate boner for Titanforging. Well any item that drops in PoE could be an upgrade, might have better set of sockets, may have better stats or affixes. Pretty much the same thing designed to keep you playing to find that upgrade even if it's only 1% as they guy in the video said.

The difference being that ARPGs have always been about the never ending chase for loot while providing ample drops so that it remains exciting. Titanforging is like one shot a week and then grinds all week for one drop. It's not remotely the same thing. Don't be dense.

[Baconeggcheese]

In MMO's you get loot to do content

In ARPG's you do content to get loot

[Beefhammer]

The difference being that ARPGs have always been about the never ending chase for loot while providing ample drops so that it remains exciting. Titanforging is like one shot a week and then grinds all week for one drop. It's not remotely the same thing. Don't be dense.

Still never a ending chase though. I don't recall playing any MMO that didn't have an RNG loot system.

- - - Updated - - -

In MMO's you get loot to do content

In ARPG's you do content to get loot

Still have to do content tonget that loot in MMOs.

[Baconeggcheese]

Still have to do content tonget that loot in MMOs.

Yes. but the motivations and the way that treadmill designed is vice versa for each type of game. They can be compared in some sense, but the comparison won't be apt for many things due to how they differ.

[Kelimbror]

Still never a ending chase though. I don't recall playing any MMO that didn't have an RNG loot system.

Having a chance to drop out of a defined set of loot isn't quit RNG in the way we see it today. In that respect, the first 3 iterations of WoW had that just fine.

[I Push Buttons]

Anyone else get some stuff from the Twitch drops? I hear they were pretty screwy with most people getting nothing. I got zero drops the first day of the stream and then six drops the second day, which seems rather improbable and to me at least implies there was a problem with the system.

I also got very luck with my drops when they finally did happen.

- Dark Swarm Pet
- Infernal Footprints x 2
- Ultimate Chaos Cloak
- Ultimate Chaos Wings
- Fire Wings

That's like $100+ in points worth of microtransactions.