1. #12041
    Epic! bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Oh god i didn’t even think about regrets that would be awful.
    As a player that uses a Private league as a form of Group SSF, Regrets are one of the largest bottle necks. Last league i went through over 300 regrets in an SSF enviroment due to finding build defining items or gear alts. They were honestly far more valuable than Chaos for me.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  2. #12042
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Oh god i didn’t even think about regrets that would be awful.

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    Which bosses are you having problem with visual clutter? I haven’t done Sirius but every thing else seems super clear unless your using a really really flashy build.
    No, the opposite. I said most bosses are pretty good when it comes to indicators.

    Also, every build is really flashy lol.

    What I'm talking about is the general swathes of enemies that can still sometimes manage to dish out-one-shot things. Such as getting frozen when you rely on life leech to sustain. There is 0 chance you can see and react to some random scrub mob among the 20 things you're blasting do whatever frost attack it is.

    Or metamorphs and their constant 1 shots.

    "Build tankier!"

    Nah. Every character should have baseline survivability like wow where I can use all my "you get to decide" stuff to further my actual goal.

  3. #12043
    that Stormbind skill looks really out of place in this current game

    ain't no one going to stop to channel mana to buff those tiles

    I am going for Wand-Arc for Dummies build though
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  4. #12044
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    that Stormbind skill looks really out of place in this current game

    ain't no one going to stop to channel mana to buff those tiles

    I am going for Wand-Arc for Dummies build though
    Huh, so they took that one boss ability and turned it into a skill gem.

    I can see it potentially being used for silly meme builds a la this -



    I legit don't know why they bother with skills like this. Nobody fucking uses them and they're garbage outside of meme builds for giggles. They need to overhaul the entire meta if they want people to meaningfully use channeled skills or straight casts.

    (also, that cat is hilarious and his builds are insane. super worth watching for laughs)

  5. #12045
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Huh, so they took that one boss ability and turned it into a skill gem.

    I can see it potentially being used for silly meme builds a la this -
    Very new to PoE, can you explain why this build is a "meme" cuz he looks to be wrecking a lot of stuff. Still don't know what makes build viable/unviable/meta/meme etc.

  6. #12046
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Very new to PoE, can you explain why this build is a "meme" cuz he looks to be wrecking a lot of stuff. Still don't know what makes build viable/unviable/meta/meme etc.
    there's an absolute fuckton of investment in it. .1% of PoE players can do that video essentially.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  7. #12047
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Very new to PoE, can you explain why this build is a "meme" cuz he looks to be wrecking a lot of stuff. Still don't know what makes build viable/unviable/meta/meme etc.
    It's functionally useless, the build isn't effective at map clearing and doesn't even work well for bosses consistently. They're basically wonky ass builds that are good for one very specific thing (like blowing up a boss in one shot), but largely don't actually work for normal builds.

  8. #12048
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    No, the opposite. I said most bosses are pretty good when it comes to indicators.

    Also, every build is really flashy lol.

    What I'm talking about is the general swathes of enemies that can still sometimes manage to dish out-one-shot things. Such as getting frozen when you rely on life leech to sustain. There is 0 chance you can see and react to some random scrub mob among the 20 things you're blasting do whatever frost attack it is.

    Or metamorphs and their constant 1 shots.

    "Build tankier!"

    Nah. Every character should have baseline survivability like wow where I can use all my "you get to decide" stuff to further my actual goal.
    ah ok i read it the other way round. and ya while maping having little things screw you because you just don't seem them feels awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    As a player that uses a Private league as a form of Group SSF, Regrets are one of the largest bottle necks. Last league i went through over 300 regrets in an SSF enviroment due to finding build defining items or gear alts. They were honestly far more valuable than Chaos for me.
    ya as some one who does very little trading and tends to share all currency with a fiend regrets are a pain i tend to end up trading other currents to venders for them on mass every league.

  9. #12049
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    there's an absolute fuckton of investment in it. .1% of PoE players can do that video essentially.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's functionally useless, the build isn't effective at map clearing and doesn't even work well for bosses consistently. They're basically wonky ass builds that are good for one very specific thing (like blowing up a boss in one shot), but largely don't actually work for normal builds.
    Oh okay. I know there's "league starter" builds that are designed for newbs like me, but how can you sorta tell whether a build is functionally good?

    Also, does someone have to follow 'the meta' in order to complete all content in the game, or are meta builds more like "if you wanna finish what you're doing faster" type builds?

    Just curious how much variety there can be in building aside from what's found on guides and/or websites like poebuilds/poevault etc.

  10. #12050
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Oh okay. I know there's "league starter" builds that are designed for newbs like me, but how can you sorta tell whether a build is functionally good?
    https://www.poebuilds.cc/

    I usually pull from here. The icons on the side indicate popularity - the mirror item is the most popular (Mirror), the multi-face is second most popular (Exalt), and the single face is less popular (Chaos) and that other item for the less popular but still popular builds (Alchemy).

    As to how you know...I don't know. I base off what is popular and, more importantly, on what seems affordable and reasonable to gear for based on the full guide. Each link links to a full PoE thread on the build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Also, does someone have to follow 'the meta' in order to complete all content in the game, or are meta builds more like "if you wanna finish what you're doing faster" type builds?
    The latter. They're better as you're learning as most will be pretty straight forward and are easier to play, but they're not needed to clear all content. They're just usually better at it, but that makes them more expensive since everyone wants that gear too.

  11. #12051
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Oh okay. I know there's "league starter" builds that are designed for newbs like me, but how can you sorta tell whether a build is functionally good?
    Build is generally functionally good if it works on a normal player budget and can still solo high tier maps.

    Also, does someone have to follow 'the meta' in order to complete all content in the game, or are meta builds more like "if you wanna finish what you're doing faster" type builds?
    You will have to follow at least something close to one of the metas to pull off the higher difficulty content solo (high tier maps, deep delves). Unless you find a meme build that will likely cost an arm and a leg.

    Just curious how much variety there can be in building aside from what's found on guides and/or websites like poebuilds/poevault etc.
    Well, for instance, a meta could be "cyclone spam" but within that, you have an incredible amount of flexibility in what you can to do customize cyclone to work for you.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2020-02-25 at 10:40 PM.

  12. #12052
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    @Edge- @BeepBoo

    Thanks for the information! Still learning the game, overall new to ARPGs but damn they're fun and I like the depth in character building you can do with them.

  13. #12053
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    @Edge- @BeepBoo

    Thanks for the information! Still learning the game, overall new to ARPGs but damn they're fun and I like the depth in character building you can do with them.
    Honestly...PoE is not a good "starter" ARPG. The skill tree is hugely complex, and so is the way gearing works (without even getting into the extensive crafting system and the complex ways in which items/skill trees can impact how things work). I still barely understand most of the game and I've been playing for years.

    It's a great game once you're more familiar with the genre and are looking for that level of depth to spend a ton of time digging into.

    That's not to try to dissuade you from playing if you're enjoying yourself right now, but know that you're basically starting on "hard" mode : P

  14. #12054
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Honestly...PoE is not a good "starter" ARPG. The skill tree is hugely complex, and so is the way gearing works (without even getting into the extensive crafting system and the complex ways in which items/skill trees can impact how things work). I still barely understand most of the game and I've been playing for years.

    It's a great game once you're more familiar with the genre and are looking for that level of depth to spend a ton of time digging into.

    That's not to try to dissuade you from playing if you're enjoying yourself right now, but know that you're basically starting on "hard" mode : P
    Well technically Wolcen was my first ! but I’m still wanting the developers to open up more build aspects for Wolcen and in the meantime I thought I’d try out PoE to see what everyone’s talking about.

    And yeah PoE is complex as fuck. But slowly been following a beginner guide and watching some beginner build idea videos (Engineering Eternity), and got the Path of Building (with fork).

    Idk just kinda kept grabbing my attention, also I am enjoying the storyline very much of PoE, even if that may not be a main focus for the game.

    I think I’m general I'm hooked into ARPGs right now, especially with the sun setting of BFA until Shadowlands.

    Also kinda funny about the “hard mode” cuz I also happened to pick starting as the Shadow first and I heard he’s one of the harder beginning classes too lol (I was like well shit that would be my ‘luck’).

    I was even trying to find myself excuses to drop $40 on d3 right now !

    Between WoW weekly stuff and these ARPGs I’m thinking I got more than a full plate of games for the foreseeable future.

  15. #12055
    If you have the time and interest, PoE will eat up plenty of your life. And you're already playing with PoBuilding, so that's putting you on the "advanced" course. You can spend tons of time tinkering with builds there and there are plenty of places in the forums and there's a PoEBuilds sub where others can weigh in and provide pointers.

  16. #12056
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Just means you'll have to specialize a bit more I think.

    If before you could have the main design traits of:
    Dual wielding, Crit striking, Minion using ice princess.

    Maybe now you'll have to cut that down to just:
    Dual wielding, Crit striking ice princess.

    Not so bad to have more choices to specialize.
    True and it can even offer more flexibility outside of a build template. There will probably be too many possibilities for authors to comment on but there are probably build enabling/upgrading notables to hunt for. I feel even sorry for whoever works on PoB, this looks to be a complex addition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Well technically Wolcen was my first ! but I’m still wanting the developers to open up more build aspects for Wolcen and in the meantime I thought I’d try out PoE to see what everyone’s talking about.

    And yeah PoE is complex as fuck. But slowly been following a beginner guide and watching some beginner build idea videos (Engineering Eternity), and got the Path of Building (with fork).

    Idk just kinda kept grabbing my attention, also I am enjoying the storyline very much of PoE, even if that may not be a main focus for the game.

    I think I’m general I'm hooked into ARPGs right now, especially with the sun setting of BFA until Shadowlands.

    Also kinda funny about the “hard mode” cuz I also happened to pick starting as the Shadow first and I heard he’s one of the harder beginning classes too lol (I was like well shit that would be my ‘luck’).

    I was even trying to find myself excuses to drop $40 on d3 right now ������ !

    Between WoW weekly stuff and these ARPGs I’m thinking I got more than a full plate of games for the foreseeable future.
    PoE will take time to fully understand. And even when you've learned most of what the game has to offer, leagues add even more mechanics, skills, and reworks to further test and research. D3 is an excellent arcade game (last I played), PoE is atm the ARPG with the most depth in terms of itemization, endgame progression and build diversity.

    If you want some popular guide authors, look at ZiggyD and Zizaran's channel for some great starter builds and certain mechanics explanation. Mathil is also a popular content creator but I'd be cautious of following his builds.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  17. #12057
    thoughts on a coc arc build for a league starter

    May go life based with impulsa if its a crazy clear season, or CI with a good rare chest with -15 channeling

  18. #12058
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Oh okay. I know there's "league starter" builds that are designed for newbs like me, but how can you sorta tell whether a build is functionally good?

    Also, does someone have to follow 'the meta' in order to complete all content in the game, or are meta builds more like "if you wanna finish what you're doing faster" type builds?

    Just curious how much variety there can be in building aside from what's found on guides and/or websites like poebuilds/poevault etc.
    League starter builds are builds that are effective without specific unique items and with cheap gear. They might or might not be able to be expanded into expensive gear / end game build bracket, but the mark of "league starter" means you can play it as the first character in the league (no currency or hand me down items) and at least get to early-mid maps to start farming currency.

    I don't think it means anything about how newbie friendly is the build, however if it doesn't rely on very specific gear, there's very low chance that's it's some gimnicky and hard to understand build.

    Meta builds are usually the builds that are most effective in clearing content, they can do it faster, with cheaper gear than other builds, or both. Meta builds are also often easy to play, because it goes well in pair with being efficient, and usually also do well against current league specific mechanic that might put emphasis on specific aspects (like aoe vs single target, 1 big burst of dps vs sustained, require more survivability vs glass cannon, etc.)

    Non meta builds have multiple levels of them, they can't be all put together. All of these classify as "non meta" imo, and they have different levels of playability:
    1. Unpopular skills that are clunky to use (for example small range melee skills)
    2. Builds that require a lot of investment while a cheaper / simpler build fulfills the same niche better
    3. Skills that fell out of favour due to nerfs (some are underpowered, some are still playable but people tend to be scared that nerfed means trash)
    4. Builds that are only good for 1 type of content (they can be "meta" in that content, for example deep delving or lab speed running, but they aren't used for general farming)
    5. Builds that use gimnicky interactions between multiple items, often look funny on videos but impractical to use
    6. Homebrew experimental builds that authors are not sure if they will even be effective

    You don't have to follow the meta, but non-meta builds can vary from "a bit slower / a bit more expensive" to "failed experiment where build lacks crucial survivability or necessary damage to do content". And a newbie will have hard time discerning between the two, even harder time inventing a build that won't be a dead-end especially if they're trying to make 100% original build that is unlike anything else.

    POE offers endless amounts of builds but there's probably less than 50 at any given time that are used and tested to work and don't tragically lag behind. That's still much bigger variety than 2-3 meta builds of the season.

    If you're a newbie I'd say follow a guide and before you decide on which guide to follow, check 2 things, first is the estimated cost of items for the build to achieve full functionality (prices vary but guide authors usually hint whether it's expected to be expensive or cheap), and second are testimonies of what kind of end game / hard content the build completed. Also videos are helpful to see how does the skill look like, how fast does it clear maps, etc.

  19. #12059
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    PoE will take time to fully understand. And even when you've learned most of what the game has to offer, leagues add even more mechanics, skills, and reworks to further test and research. D3 is an excellent arcade game (last I played), PoE is atm the ARPG with the most depth in terms of itemization, endgame progression and build diversity.

    If you want some popular guide authors, look at ZiggyD and Zizaran's channel for some great starter builds and certain mechanics explanation. Mathil is also a popular content creator but I'd be cautious of following his builds.
    Thanks, yeah seems like they update often to keep things fresh. I like that, it's pretty neat. Especially with the standard league being there as a form of perma progression (though I know people say it has very inflated economy because it's where everyone's old league stuff goes and accrues).

    Thanks for the recommendations, I will for sure check those guys out! Yes I have heard of Mathil, but I also heard he's apparently a god at PoE so his builds are atypical from the most average PoE playerbase. I don't even want to see what he cooks up yet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    If you're a newbie I'd say follow a guide and before you decide on which guide to follow, check 2 things, first is the estimated cost of items for the build to achieve full functionality (prices vary but guide authors usually hint whether it's expected to be expensive or cheap), and second are testimonies of what kind of end game / hard content the build completed. Also videos are helpful to see how does the skill look like, how fast does it clear maps, etc.
    That was all good to hear, thank you. I'm glad with the amount of build diversity and how variable off-meta builds can be. I think right now I am just soaking the game in (still in Act 2 after starting about a week ago with haphazard play time) and what it's got to offer. I have been following a guide from the website poe-vault that was recommended to me because it's got a whole guide for fresh new players. Doing a Caustic Arrow Trickster currently, but already the passive skill tree I look at things and go "huh that would be interesting!!".

    Still sticking to my guide though and it seems like a lot of builds tend to spread out as far as they can within the passive tree, is it because there's often node clusters/keystones you want that are never near your tree? Is it intentionally designed that way? I haven't seen many tree builds where they stay near their beginning, they're almost always spreading far! :O

  20. #12060
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    That was all good to hear, thank you. I'm glad with the amount of build diversity and how variable off-meta builds can be. I think right now I am just soaking the game in (still in Act 2 after starting about a week ago with haphazard play time) and what it's got to offer. I have been following a guide from the website poe-vault that was recommended to me because it's got a whole guide for fresh new players. Doing a Caustic Arrow Trickster currently, but already the passive skill tree I look at things and go "huh that would be interesting!!".

    Still sticking to my guide though and it seems like a lot of builds tend to spread out as far as they can within the passive tree, is it because there's often node clusters/keystones you want that are never near your tree? Is it intentionally designed that way? I haven't seen many tree builds where they stay near their beginning, they're almost always spreading far! :O
    Well tbh that's a good question, I see a lot of newbies spend points in the closest vicinity of their class starting area because "this could be useful, and this, and this too..." but this often ends up with inefficient builds.

    Usually a build will want to pick specific notables (medium sized nodes) and keystones (big sized nodes) and then path efficiently between them, but the nodes itself can be between 1/4-1/2 wheel away. Good idea is download "path of building" program it's free and allows you to preview / plan / manage build offline (by either making one from scratch or importing existing character). Then you can see if a big node is let's say 10 points away but gives you a lot more damage per point even counting travel nodes than a closeby node, it's worth it. Some builds might need specific amount of specific stat, for example crit multiplier, or spellpower, or attack speed so they will target biggest nodes that provide it.

    Also nearly every build will want to path in a way to get enough life or energy shield % increase (depending if the build relies on life or energy shield to survive), for example life based builds will want 150-200% increase (depends on type of build, "facetank" builds will want more, glass cannon builds tend to have less), and this cannot be gained in 1 spot of the tree because the nodes are spread apart.

    With websites be careful, some of them are fine but some of them only exist to spam people with advertisement of illegal trade (gear / currency for irl money), don't get tricked.

    Most builds will have guides on official POE website / forums, for example as you said about Caustic Arrow Trickster, there are few threads covering it:
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/vi...2497657/page/1
    https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2778181

    I'm pretty sure if you're interested in other builds you can find most common ones, and forums are sorted by class and ascendancy if you want to narrow your choice.

    Btw Mathil videos from my perspective are a great source of ideas for build variety and nearly every build of his is "viable", i.e. he always goes and kills end boss (Awakener now, Uber Elder before 3.9) to prove his build doesn't suck. But he's a very efficient farmer and crafter so many of his builds tend to require moderate to semi-high investment to get similar results.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2020-02-26 at 06:35 AM.

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