1. #13801
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Was it too severe? Maybe a little. Again, not possible to check everything. Week into league and people already reaching multi milion dps.
    Yes, it was. Hence them quickly dropping at least 10% multiplier off pretty much every single support gem.

    Did it mean people couldn't reach multi-million DPS in days? No, and I don't think anyone here has ever argued that. Top players will be top players and still break shit.

    But this is more for us unibrowed knuckle draggers that aren't top players and don't know optimal farming routes and might not engage with all the rewarding mechanics because they're unfun (I don't Heist, it's stupid rewarding but it's deeply unfun content to me and I'm well past the point where I feel pressured/obligated to engage with) that aren't making 10M+ dps builds each league.

  2. #13802
    Brewmaster Tommys's Avatar
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    I would love it if they would add a death recap. Even a simple one like WoW's old one.

    I usually get to red maps before getting bored, but this season I stopped in Act 2. They really need to make the early acts easy and than ramp up the difficulty as you progress. Acts 1-3 are boring and the new season made it a slog.

  3. #13803
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, it was. Hence them quickly dropping at least 10% multiplier off pretty much every single support gem.

    Did it mean people couldn't reach multi-million DPS in days? No, and I don't think anyone here has ever argued that. Top players will be top players and still break shit.

    But this is more for us unibrowed knuckle draggers that aren't top players and don't know optimal farming routes and might not engage with all the rewarding mechanics because they're unfun (I don't Heist, it's stupid rewarding but it's deeply unfun content to me and I'm well past the point where I feel pressured/obligated to engage with) that aren't making 10M+ dps builds each league.
    What top players. You can reach that with 1c unique strength stacking zombies for example. Don't need to be top player. All it needs is a 6link. You also don't have to engage with any mechanics at all, just run maps. No need to even engage with current league mechanic. I like heist but this league im not gonna touch it, played it too much 2 previous leagues.
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  4. #13804
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    What top players. You can reach that with 1c unique strength stacking zombies for example. Don't need to be top player. All it needs is a 6link. You also don't have to engage with any mechanics at all, just run maps. No need to even engage with current league mechanic. I like heist but this league im not gonna touch it, played it too much 2 previous leagues.
    You keep acting like everyone can do shapers per second dps with no effort. Sure it is possible, but the thing is, in reality it doesnt happen. GGG has flat out said most players quit before maps. Of those that make it past, the majority of players don't see end game bosses. What is possible on paper, does not play out in reality most of the time. You need to realize that the majority of the players of this game don't accomplish what you seem to think is the easiest thing in reality.

    I am a player that has seen all the content in the game up to this league (not played it), and have done shaper per second dps, yet i acknowledge that I am the minority. I have friends that have quit at act 5 when they couldnt get past kitava.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  5. #13805
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    You keep acting like everyone can do shapers per second dps with no effort. Sure it is possible, but the thing is, in reality it doesnt happen. GGG has flat out said most players quit before maps. Of those that make it past, the majority of players don't see end game bosses. What is possible on paper, does not play out in reality most of the time. You need to realize that the majority of the players of this game don't accomplish what you seem to think is the easiest thing in reality.

    I am a player that has seen all the content in the game up to this league (not played it), and have done shaper per second dps, yet i acknowledge that I am the minority. I have friends that have quit at act 5 when they couldnt get past kitava.
    And you keep acting like its impossible to kill bosses without throwing hundreds of exolts into build. But the reality is, you can assemble scuffed cheap (< 50c) builds that will exactly do that = kill bosses.

    If people quit before maps means they don't care, not that its impossible for them. Unless you honestly believe someone who hasn't even started playing quits before maps because of their lack of skill (which is literally contradiction).

    If someone is unable to finish campaing while geniuely trying then i guess it's not a game for them. Reality is most of those never bother to even try to understand how game works.

    Its not a game where skill matters (at least not a lot). Your effort is rewarded. You could make that argument against WoW where casuals are being shunned, not in PoE where you can build a GIGA CHAD without even completing a single map yourself and just flip your way to player power.
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  6. #13806
    Pit Lord bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    And you keep acting like its impossible to kill bosses without throwing hundreds of exolts into build. But the reality is, you can assemble scuffed cheap (< 50c) builds that will exactly do that = kill bosses.

    If people quit before maps means they don't care, not that its impossible for them. Unless you honestly believe someone who hasn't even started playing quits before maps because of their lack of skill (which is literally contradiction).

    Its not a game where skill matters (at least not a lot). Your effort is rewarded. You could make that argument against WoW where casuals are being shunned, not in PoE where you can build a GIGA CHAD without even completing a single map yourself and just flip your way to player power.
    You keep referring to flipping as a good method for noobs\casuals to get gear. You realize that a LOT of players have no idea how to accomplish that right? While we find it easy to turn stuff into profit, or snipe poorly priced items and resell them, a lot of people do not understand that. I have had friends that literally only got chaos from drops or doing the chaos recipe because they were afraid of getting scammed with trade. And yes, i have known 3 people to quit the game personally before finishing act 10 because they struggled to defeat the bosses or felt they screwed their build up. These are players that I have played at high levels in other games with, yet POE was too difficult for them. They have admitted as much, I offered them guides and stuff, but for some people, that external research is not how they want to play games, and there is nothing wrong with that. POE is obtuse as hell, doesn't mean everyone enjoys that.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  7. #13807
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    And you keep acting like its impossible to kill bosses without throwing hundreds of exolts into build. But the reality is, you can assemble scuffed cheap (< 50c) builds that will exactly do that = kill bosses.
    Playing the same build 10 leagues in a row isn't what keeps most of us around. Sure there are plenty of cheaper, strong league starts. But if I wanted to keep playing the same character/build I'd just be playing standard, part of the point of a new league is to try new builds with new/existing skill gems. And I don't think he's acting like it's "impossible without throwing hundreds of ex", this is you being hyperbolic again.

    Most of the strong league start builds are still the same, and at least for me a lot of them are either very uninteresting or very boring to play. Sure, I'm shooting myself in the foot a bit, but I try to have fun while playing (like I assume most folks do?) and fun is different. For my brother it's "a strong build", no matter what the build is. For me I'm fine with a slightly less strong build, but I want it to be a build I actually want to play. If I'm not having fun playing it, smashing all the content in the world won't be enjoyable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    You keep referring to flipping as a good method for noobs\casuals to get gear. You realize that a LOT of players have no idea how to accomplish that right?
    And that trading is often a deeply unenjoyable experience (sorta by design per GGG), even if it can result in quite considerable profit. Hell, I haven't even really found anything worth selling yet this bloody league, maybe a few small 5-10c accessories but that's it.

  8. #13808
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    You keep referring to flipping as a good method for noobs\casuals to get gear. You realize that a LOT of players have no idea how to accomplish that right? While we find it easy to turn stuff into profit, or snipe poorly priced items and resell them, a lot of people do not understand that. I have had friends that literally only got chaos from drops or doing the chaos recipe because they were afraid of getting scammed with trade. And yes, i have known 3 people to quit the game personally before finishing act 10 because they struggled to defeat the bosses or felt they screwed their build up. These are players that I have played at high levels in other games with, yet POE was too difficult for them. They have admitted as much, I offered them guides and stuff, but for some people, that external research is not how they want to play games, and there is nothing wrong with that. POE is obtuse as hell, doesn't mean everyone enjoys that.
    No. You dont need to flip to get 50c. Read my post once again because you tried to argue about something I have never said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Playing the same build 10 leagues in a row isn't what keeps most of us around. Sure there are plenty of cheaper, strong league starts. But if I wanted to keep playing the same character/build I'd just be playing standard, part of the point of a new league is to try new builds with new/existing skill gems. And I don't think he's acting like it's "impossible without throwing hundreds of ex", this is you being hyperbolic again.
    You get hyperbolic response when you argue with same hyperbolic "shapers per second".

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Most of the strong league start builds are still the same, and at least for me a lot of them are either very uninteresting or very boring to play. Sure, I'm shooting myself in the foot a bit, but I try to have fun while playing (like I assume most folks do?) and fun is different. For my brother it's "a strong build", no matter what the build is. For me I'm fine with a slightly less strong build, but I want it to be a build I actually want to play. If I'm not having fun playing it, smashing all the content in the world won't be enjoyable.
    It's not a problem. I always start with minions. No matter what class/asendancy i chose, be it raider or duelist. Sure campaign is Bedge and all but at least i can watch something on the second screen, have easy start and can swap to something else when i get some currency. You can absolutely try new builds each league, in fact I only played same build once, every other league was something different, sometimes even as much as 2-4 builds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And that trading is often a deeply unenjoyable experience (sorta by design per GGG), even if it can result in quite considerable profit. Hell, I haven't even really found anything worth selling yet this bloody league, maybe a few small 5-10c accessories but that's it.
    That is enough to make profit, I still sell 1-3c items. Just dump em in a tab and forget.
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  9. #13809
    Man, even after all those buffs to Absolution, and getting a lucky awakened lightning pen support to drop off a conq, it's still just so...not good. PoB puts my 6L dudes at 40Kish dps each which is...awful. I ended up 2-linking my HoP with just minion damage and that...also does 40Kish dps...with a 2 link...with 4 minions vs. 3. Absolution has a bit of AoE, sure, but hot damn would it be easy to get that with HoP with an AoE support gem alone.

    At this point I might just say fuck it and go with a boring ass 6L HoP build if I can get a circle of guilt and use Absolution to proc them. For the life of me I can't make Absolution seem to do any real damage, and it doesn't help that the AI for them likes to stand around and do nothing...a lot.

    Edit: Holy hell yeah, from 40K per minion to 280K per minion without much in the way of changes outside of swapping a few passives around so I can get a minion cluster with impale on it. The damage just doesn't compare, and that's without anything too crazy like a circle of guilt or anything.

    They really, really, really, really need to not add tons of useless gems in a league and instead focus on a smaller number that they actually spend time testing and ensuring have some kind of niche/role to fill and can be competitive. Plenty of gripes about how awful Reaper is as well, even after its buffs (and nerfs). Shield Crush feels like the only real "functional" skill added this league from what I can tell, and that's in part because this league is very much a Gladiator league.

    Edit 2: Yeah...running out of steam. Still don't like the mechanic at all, and just thinking about the cost and time it will take to transition this build to a HoP build or figure out how to make it work is too much for a garbage existing build right now. My mistake for leaguestarting with a new skill without assuming it'd be garbage, but I'm tired of the same boring ass league starters league after league.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2021-07-31 at 12:52 AM.

  10. #13810
    crafting a shield for my SST glad is proving to be obnoxious

    wouldn't be too bad if people online were around to trade for Dread essences, but I wasted two hours to get a response and I just want to choke something
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  11. #13811
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    crafting a shield for my SST glad is proving to be obnoxious

    wouldn't be too bad if people online were around to trade for Dread essences, but I wasted two hours to get a response and I just want to choke something
    if you want to buy stuff like essences you gotta tick min stock 10 and whisper someone in the middle of the list. First are either jebaits or sold.


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    Downed A8 yesterday, its actually the fastest i have ever done so. It was also the first awekener I've done this league. Build is around 15 ex right now. Took me 2 deaths.

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  12. #13812
    Observer Floofi's Avatar
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    So, I've largely slept on this game with getting my ARPG fix from Diablo 3 or more recently Grim Dawn but with the new league and with hearing about the large damage balancing that GGG was going to do with the newest patch, I thought that I'd finally give PoE a try.

    I'm using a fully self built Chaos DoT Occultist, focusing mainly on Soulrend and Bane + Despair. I'm level 69 (nice) in Act 9 with ~35-40 hours played) and I've been having a blast. I feel like all the past league mechanics, currencies, and items are introduced at a nice pace so new players are not overwhelmed with the sheer number of different systems and ways to progress your character.

    However, I do have some minor gripes.

    1. The sheer damage that enemies can do can be a bit ridiculous; most of my deaths are me getting 1 shot seemingly out of nowhere. I can't complain too much though, as this is most likely due to my build / gear lacking in defense.
    2. Lack of resources for past leagues before end game. I really like the Delve system and want to explore it some more, but I've only found like 5 nodes of sulphite since unlocking it in Act 4.
    3. With everything being considered an item, additional stash tabs become almost a necessity later in the game. I tried to hold off, but after having like 1/2 of my stash filled up with various items + currencies, I broke down and bought a few.

  13. #13813
    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    1. The sheer damage that enemies can do can be a bit ridiculous; most of my deaths are me getting 1 shot seemingly out of nowhere. I can't complain too much though, as this is most likely due to my build / gear lacking in defense.
    Max ele res helps a lot, and you'll get a second -30% debuff after you clear A10. Other than that it's just finding more life on gear/in your tree and looking for more defense. Guard skills (steelskin is good for phys, arcane cloak if you're not reserving most of your mana, immortal call is a good cheap one etc.) can help as well.

    But the game is pretty rippy/1-shot heavy, especially if you're not well geared and/or don't know what to look for (or can't see anything because the screen is so cluttered).

    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    2. Lack of resources for past leagues before end game. I really like the Delve system and want to explore it some more, but I've only found like 5 nodes of sulphite since unlocking it in Act 4.
    That'll come when you hit maps. As you complete maps you'll earn master missions (NPC's for old leagues) and be able to force that content into a map (i.e. guaranteed delve nodes, or einhar beasts etc.) so you'll be able to get more of that. Also as you progress your atlas and unlock Maven passives (secondary endgame progression) you'll have access to nodes in some regions of your map that will make Niko spawns more common and much more valuable in those regions.

    IMO setting all this up takes much too long nowadays as it's when you have the atlas "unlocked" that things start getting really fun with layered mechanics in maps (force a Niko spawn for sulphite, find a Legion stone, find a Blight encounter etc.), but it's probably better for new players that it's slow since you'll be learning how all these mechanics work and which you like/dislike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    3. With everything being considered an item, additional stash tabs become almost a necessity later in the game. I tried to hold off, but after having like 1/2 of my stash filled up with various items + currencies, I broke down and bought a few.
    Currency tab is one of the biggest QoL buffs you can have in the game. Tabs for other league mechanics (fragments, delve, blight etc.) are also nice but usually not as big of an improvement compared to currency.

    IF you want to trade at all you'll need to buy a premium stash tab so you can list stuff on there for trade as well. But yeah, you can get by with the default stash tabs but...it's rough, especially if you're holding onto gear and other things you're unsure about as you learn the game.

  14. #13814
    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    1. The sheer damage that enemies can do can be a bit ridiculous; most of my deaths are me getting 1 shot seemingly out of nowhere. I can't complain too much though, as this is most likely due to my build / gear lacking in defense.
    That is also a beaty of PoE, there is like a fluid slider of defense/offence you can build. I for once go full glass canon this league. If anything hits me, im dead. So what I do? Well I increase DPS even more so there is not much of those situations cause enemies can't kill you when they are dead 5Head.

    If you wish to be more tanky there are tons of ways to do that. Evasion, dodge, block, endurance charges, fortify gimmicks, increasing hp, getting more armor, defensive auras and recently added ward.
    If you die from one shots you don't have nuff EHP. Path of building calculates that and you can get a rough estimation how tanky are you versus specific type of damages.

    For example this is my current build EHP:


    Which is considered paper thin. On the other hand people are able to get that past 100k which is pretty much considered unkillable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    2. Lack of resources for past leagues before end game. I really like the Delve system and want to explore it some more, but I've only found like 5 nodes of sulphite since unlocking it in Act 4.
    It's really hard to call maps - end game. Its literally the beginning of the game. People who are somewhat experienced do campaign in 4-5h. Speedrunners do that in 1-2h.
    On maps you can buy sulphite scarabs and get almost infinite amount of that. People also do "niko rotas", cheap way to get extreme amounts of suphite.


    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    3. With everything being considered an item, additional stash tabs become almost a necessity later in the game. I tried to hold off, but after having like 1/2 of my stash filled up with various items + currencies, I broke down and bought a few.
    Yeah, its hard to play without currency/fragment/map tabs. But that is one time purchase. If you decide to play next league consider getting all special tabs.
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  15. #13815
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Snip
    A lot of what u said in this post would go way over most first-time players.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  16. #13816
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    A lot of what u said in this post would go way over most first-time players.
    Not really, everything I said is googleable in less than 1 minute. "[insert phrase here] poe" and you will have detailed explanation if you don't know how dodge, block, ward etc. works under the hood. Don't assume that people are stupid and/or unable to use google.
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  17. #13817
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Not really, everything I said is googleable in less than 1 minute. "[insert phrase here] poe" and you will have detailed explanation if you don't know how dodge, block, ward etc. works under the hood. Don't assume that people are stupid and/or unable to use google.
    You assume a lot to think beginning players would do any of that, as opposed to being so overwhelmed by the thousands of mechanics they don't understand and don't exist in other games. That's not to say you or other people were ever 'stupid'. It's bad game design if you need all this information to understand how to play, but aren't provided that information naturally.

    While someone who enjoys the game will eventually spend countless hours reading math formulas and running 10 AHK scripts when they play, that won't be the majority and it certainly won't be their first couple of times trying it out.
    BAD WOLF

  18. #13818
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    You assume a lot to think beginning players would do any of that, as opposed to being so overwhelmed by the thousands of mechanics they don't understand and don't exist in other games. That's not to say you or other people were ever 'stupid'. It's bad game design if you need all this information to understand how to play, but aren't provided that information naturally.

    While someone who enjoys the game will eventually spend countless hours reading math formulas and running 10 AHK scripts when they play, that won't be the majority and it certainly won't be their first couple of times trying it out.
    That is literally the poe, it is suppose to overwhelm you. And no, its not bad game design, its just your opinion. I on the other hand, absolutely fucking hate when games are handhelding me. Or game design like a "D3 tricycle" so shallow you can't drown even if you wanted really hard.

    And that is ok because PoE wasn't meant for majority. That has nothing to do with being casual or not.

    To put it simply, if you are not willing to learn and/or not having fun while learning and exploring PoE is not for you.
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  19. #13819
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile...on_discussion/

    Not listening in so far, but here's what the mod has stickied from the podcast (I'll wait for a full recap on the thing, can't listen in) -

    MAJOR CONTEXT DISCLAIMER:
    The Flask notes mentioned above are from Chris reading off a list of POSSIBLE solutions to the issue they've been discussing internally, NOT a promise that they will be implemented.

    Some changes to fortify in 3.16 to make it more catered for Melee characters

    Possible reverting of some 3.15 changes - team is unhappy with many changes currently

    Flask changes - 3.16 - proactive vs reactive mod pools, different tiers of mods, more bench crafts for flasks

    Buffs for reactive mods (e.g. "Adrenaline on Life Flask grants Onslaught")

    Jewel mods changes (tiers?)

    Flask focused uniques e.g. "your flasks are always in effect"
    Yay for buffs for fortify for melee, with damage mitigation still being trash they really need to juice it up to make it meaningful. It needs to be a proper counterbalance to block in a sense in that going for tons of mitigation can be around as effective (right now it's bloody not).

    Unhappy with 3.15 changes? Good, they were kinda not great and not very interesting. The "interesting" supports still aren't very interesting, and folks are still focusing on damage because it's largely more important/necessary than utility supports.

    Not sure how I feel about mod tiers for flasks, but if they can solve the, "Hit this flask for its buff proactively! But also don't use this flask until you have the appropriate debuff so use it reactively!" problems that exist now. Unique flasks always being in effect sounds kinda neato.

    Hopefully some heroes will do a much more detailed writeup/summary of the podcast.

    I came back with a boring meta SST glad and it's fuckin hilarious just how much stronger he is than my Absolution starter. Not even great gear (only thing worth mentioning is a shield with 2K armor, which isn't even that amazing), but already WAY tankier (despite similar flat block which confuses the fuck outta me) and damage is significantly better even if it's still not impressive. But it's just so much stronger right outta the gate, and the playstyle is much better/more enjoyable for me.

    Also this is the first character i've ever had explode on (never had an explosion chest) and hot damn is it nice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    May have an "alternate" hardmode for 3.16 that buffs the shit outta enemies and nerfs the shit outta drops for masochists like Chris Wilson and some of the streamers.

    I'd be down with this, honestly. Have this mode for the folks that enjoy the painful, brutal ARPG gameplay that's slower, but don't fuck with the zoomzoom the main game has turned into. Interesting that they're exploring even more modes, PoE 1, PoE 2, battle royal, and now maybe the hardmode. That's a LOT of game to design and balance if they're gonna stick on this quarterly schedule.

  20. #13820
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile...on_discussion/

    Not listening in so far, but here's what the mod has stickied from the podcast (I'll wait for a full recap on the thing, can't listen in) -



    Yay for buffs for fortify for melee, with damage mitigation still being trash they really need to juice it up to make it meaningful. It needs to be a proper counterbalance to block in a sense in that going for tons of mitigation can be around as effective (right now it's bloody not).

    Unhappy with 3.15 changes? Good, they were kinda not great and not very interesting. The "interesting" supports still aren't very interesting, and folks are still focusing on damage because it's largely more important/necessary than utility supports.

    Not sure how I feel about mod tiers for flasks, but if they can solve the, "Hit this flask for its buff proactively! But also don't use this flask until you have the appropriate debuff so use it reactively!" problems that exist now. Unique flasks always being in effect sounds kinda neato.

    Hopefully some heroes will do a much more detailed writeup/summary of the podcast.

    I came back with a boring meta SST glad and it's fuckin hilarious just how much stronger he is than my Absolution starter. Not even great gear (only thing worth mentioning is a shield with 2K armor, which isn't even that amazing), but already WAY tankier (despite similar flat block which confuses the fuck outta me) and damage is significantly better even if it's still not impressive. But it's just so much stronger right outta the gate, and the playstyle is much better/more enjoyable for me.

    Also this is the first character i've ever had explode on (never had an explosion chest) and hot damn is it nice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    May have an "alternate" hardmode for 3.16 that buffs the shit outta enemies and nerfs the shit outta drops for masochists like Chris Wilson and some of the streamers.

    I'd be down with this, honestly. Have this mode for the folks that enjoy the painful, brutal ARPG gameplay that's slower, but don't fuck with the zoomzoom the main game has turned into. Interesting that they're exploring even more modes, PoE 1, PoE 2, battle royal, and now maybe the hardmode. That's a LOT of game to design and balance if they're gonna stick on this quarterly schedule.
    History would say they barely design it, throw it out and do some emergency fixes and then leave it to rot.
    They simply don't have the time/manpower to do more then that.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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