[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Lorgar Aurelian]

See, this is the unethical power fantasy shit this league is about.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile...with_sst_node/

That's the thread with the crafting process, which included 10,000 chance/scours until he got Emperor's Vigilance. Yes, with the SST node as well. Ludicrous people have the time to play to earn/trade for that kind of currency less literally just 7 days into the league.

Was thinking of trying to chance one as I’ve had no luck with crucible trees and can’t even find bases to try on but given this took 10k that would jsut be another fools errand.

Planning on rerollling today to farm some currency and come back to shield throw as ice just benne spinning my wheels since Monday.

Thinking of doing brands as I haven’t touched them before and I always hear they do well.

[Trifle]

also, servers should be stablizing. apparently saqawal's twister abuse with aspect of the avian was overloading them to shit. Seen a few of those builds in action and that shit was mental lol

Funny thing is that they nerfed the hell out of the twisters by adding a cooldown but they didn't bother adding any damage to compensate. So the build now does substantially less damage than it did prior to this league... including when it was featured in a build of the week video about 6 months ago apparently.

(note that the concept of PoE2 is a community idea. Its not a new game, just a continuation of the current game with a new coat of paint)

It's not really a community idea... it's actually called PoE 2, they did announce trailers for it a while back etc. It has a number of different design decisions, but it's meant to either run in parallel to PoE 1 or they'll just end up replacing it at some point I guess... it's been long enough that they've had time to change their minds a few times about how exactly it will be implemented.

[Ghost of Cow]

Meh, I should listen to my own character names and ignore crucibles. Basically all of my deaths so far have been from a rare spawning and one-shotting me. Bleh!

Had a reaaaally good build going this last time, too. Kinda heartbroken, someone send me ice cream.

[Fencers]

I'm really into Kinetic Bolt right now. Hard casting it but I might move to a Torem. Have not decided on my Ascended choice.

But I am greatly enjoying this league.

[Edge-]

Every time I try to get back into this league a fuckin random pinnacle boss rare appears out of nowhere and just kills my motivation to play. It's just not fun having a hasted, resistant-to-your-damage, heralding, extra life, life regen mob with a teleport appear in normal mapping.

I guess it doesn't matter, I may as well be playing standard with how much this league mechanic has fuckin mattered in terms of my play so far. Which is basically interacting with it a ton and getting absolutely fucking nothing even remotely exciting. I increasingly feel like I'm no longer the target audience for this game with GGG's design decisions, which is a shame because the moment to moment gameplay is great. When the game isn't randomly and pointlessly punching you in the balls because Chris and team just really want everyone playing ruthless please.

[Fencers]

When the game isn't randomly and pointlessly punching you in the balls because Chris and team just really want everyone playing ruthless please.

Has not POE always been the type of game that "punches you in the balls"?

Most league mechanics are not and have not been very friendly to players. They are all kinda designed to kill you or screw you over.

I remember way back in the day Chris Wilson and Rory were on a podcast and they expressed that most players dying in mud flats was ideal for them somewhat jokingly. However, in a practical sense, that is and was always true. The Mud Flats is the place where a lot of players get twisted up- the roahs, the den of evil, the nests, etc. I remember reading posts while it was still in the beta about how the difficulty spiked in the Mud Flats.

Every aspect of the game design is built on risk/reward. most of the currency is (no pun) chaotic and the risk of ruining an item has always been high fundamentally. It is the exception that we have any deterministic choices that are flexible or easily seen to be a direct outcome in the positive- enchant a map for more loot but it's potentially more dangerous. Jump into delve and risk the darkness/level as you go. Juice a crucible for a chance at glory or garbage not worth picking up off the floor. Et cetera.

I think there is some disconnect between the gameplay is expressed and how players want to progress. Those desires are at odds in Path of Exile. It's similar to wanting to have a singular run in Dead Cells or seeking a specific layout in Travincal. Volatility and your efforts being dashed are inherent to Path of Exile.

[Edge-]

Yes, but not in the same way.

That comes primarily twofold - newbs finding out the hard way, and when you start juicing and intentionally playing harder content.

The Mud Flats example? That's mostly the former. People not knowing about the dangers the game (and that zone in particular) presents or not taking them seriously. Mud Flats itself is trivially easy to zoom through if you remember you're a level 3 nobody without a movement skill or quicksilver flask.

This isn't about increasing risk for increased reward. I'm still running pretty easy maps as I'm progressing through my atlas - nothing I'm taking on should be a major challenge outside of me having some lowish DPS until I sort my gear out a bit (defenses are solid enough). Breezing through a map and then suddenly having a pinnacle boss out of nowhere that damn near one shots you (no, not soul eater) isn't fun to me. If I want to start taking on that harder content I'll start running big quant on maps and throwing in scarabs and shit, actually targeting harder content that's more rippy and rewarding.

This just goes against the whole "opt-in" difficulty when there's no "opting" due to the way the re-juiced AN mods work. You just randomly run into a pinnacle boss mob that more than likely doesn't even drop anything worth the time it took to kill them in an otherwise easy map. GGG's made a big deal of that and that's generally been a concept that players have celebrated and embraced. But GGG also repeatedly seems to ignore this design ethos in favor of, "Just more risk." frequently.

[Fencers]

The Mud Flats example? That's mostly the former. People not knowing about the dangers the game (and that zone in particular) presents or not taking them seriously. Mud Flats itself is trivially easy to zoom through if you remember you're a level 3 nobody without a movement skill or quicksilver flask.

Of course. But you are inserting your knowledge into how you play the game. Not how it is designed.

How it is designed and expressed (actually implemented) is perilous with numerous intentional elements to impede you by design. Whether you fall for looting a nest as a hoard of birds about to charge does not change the design.

I am saying the design of this game is intentionally not in your favor as a player. Player knowledge overcomes challenges and the majority of gains and choices within Path of Exile are likewise, not in your favor. So to speak.

It's rare, both in instance and expression, when Path of Exile offers players anything without a tradeoff or catch of some kind. Even linear systems with deterministic results offer such at the sacrifice of time/effort (bestiary, harvest, etc) or impose some tax of both. Such as respec-ing or choosing what you wanted from a ritual altar.

This isn't about increased risk for increased reward.

Isn't it though? By running the map you are inherently seeking a reward. Progresing is risk/reward inherently.

I am not saying this merely be reductive, but it is to my point above that Path of Exile's gameplay is fundamentally built on this axis. That is the sum entirety of the game and I think it intentionally informs the vast majority of interaction points or mechanics within Path of Exile.

When you say this;

Breezing through a map and then suddenly having a pinnacle boss out of nowhere that damn near one shots you (no, not soul eater) isn't fun to me.

If I want to start taking on that harder content I'll start running big quant on maps and throwing in scarabs and shit, actually targeting harder content that's more rippy and rewarding.

I think, "Why should you be allowed that choice?"

You would rarely have the luxury elsewhere in the gameplay to call your shots exactly as you wish. That usually comes at some cost be it a direct danger in actual play, a potentially ruined item, a lengthy & costly repsec, an expensive trade, etc.

There have been a lot of leagues in POE at this point, I can't remember all of them frankly. I can't really think of any major mechanic that didn't tax the player in some manner. Some of those are more or less complex, more or less rewarding- sure. I would bet if I trawled through the POE Wikipedia the league mechanics would be full of a lot of fuckery or simply non-deterministic elements.

This just goes against the whole "opt-in" difficulty when there's no "opting" due to the way the re-juiced AN mods work.GGG's made a big deal of that and that's generally been a concept that players have celebrated and embraced. But GGG also repeatedly seems to ignore this design ethos in favor of, "Just more risk." frequently.

This is more execution though. I would not disagree some of these mobs are bonkers relative to the challenge. This is not enjoyable to me either.

I would phrase it more along the lines of, "It feels bad to have a mechanism that is best ignored than one you want to interact with."

Balance is transitory, as usual. Though I agree the balance (such as it is) currently sucks ass in terms of risk/reward.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Finally got an emperors after farming over 100c on a second character, got a geode for a tree to, annnd the tree is the worse I’ve seen on any item yet with reduced life damage and defences on the shield.

This league is pain.

[Trifle]

I'm still running pretty easy maps as I'm progressing through my atlas - nothing I'm taking on should be a major challenge outside of me having some lowish DPS until I sort my gear out a bit (defenses are solid enough).

Hah, I'm pretty much the exact opposite of this. My damage seems ok but I'm doing red maps now and still only have 3200 hp... I've pretty much been relying on killing stuff before it gets the chance to kill me. Freeze helps a lot too for things that live a bit longer.

When you say this;

I think, "Why should you be allowed that choice?"

For league mechanics that you know are difficult, eg difficulty 16 kalandra tiles, 100% crucibles etc you fully have the choice in whether to engage them or not. There have been very few league mechanics where you didn't get a choice in how difficult they were, or failing that whether to engage with them.

I think Edge is more talking about random difficulty spikes from archnemesis mods, which they fiddled with this league AGAIN. And how this results in random rares being 10 times as difficult as anything else in the map for no real reason.

Which I guess has kinda always been a thing in PoE but it's a question of the extent to which it happens and they seem to have turned up the bullshit meter this league. In my experience the AN mods don't seem as bad as they were at the start of the Kalandra league, but apparently they're a lot worse than they were in Sanctum? I skipped that league so not too sure.

[Fencers]

For league mechanics that you know are difficult, eg difficulty 16 kalandra tiles, 100% crucibles etc you fully have the choice in whether to engage them or not. There have been very few league mechanics where you didn't get a choice in how difficult they were, or failing that whether to engage with them.

Yes, and I would say that is the correct operation based on how POE is designed. Where active engagement is typically not in your favor- danger/death is always at stake.

There are videos of people ripping in a split second in POE in all leagues going back to the very release of the game.

I think Edge is more talking about random difficulty spikes from archnemesis mods, which they fiddled with this league AGAIN. And how this results in random rares being 10 times as difficult as anything else in the map for no real reason.

Umhm. I also agree that doesn't feel great; it's terrible, frankly. Though would say it's a balance issue rather than a design or philosophical issue.

apparently they're a lot worse than they were in Sanctum? I skipped that league so not too sure.

I see this claimed a bit on Reddit. But I think that is mostly the afterglow of Sanctum. When we have a bullshit league, which is like most, the good ones always stick around in memory as peak POE. Though it's likely the scarcity on Crucible that plays into this too.

Some of these Crucibles give nothing worth even stopping for and they are (as already said) wildly unpredictable in risk. Sanctum gains seem a lot better by comparison.

[Ghost of Cow]

So I sat there thinking about what character to make. Bounced between some variation of a bow build or a minion build. Went with minions. Whatever.

Along the way I've had no minion-related drops, but a ton of rare bows, quivers, and three bow support gems. :|

Rude, game.

[NoiseTank13]

So I sat there thinking about what character to make. Bounced between some variation of a bow build or a minion build. Went with minions. Whatever.

Along the way I've had no minion-related drops, but a ton of rare bows, quivers, and three bow support gems. :|

Rude, game.

See if you can get Vaal Absolution and go to town with it.

[Trifle]

I see this claimed a bit on Reddit. But I think that is mostly the afterglow of Sanctum. When we have a bullshit league, which is like most, the good ones always stick around in memory as peak POE. Though it's likely the scarcity on Crucible that plays into this too.

Some of these Crucibles give nothing worth even stopping for and they are (as already said) wildly unpredictable in risk. Sanctum gains seem a lot better by comparison.

Not really sure since I didn't play but I think the "cycling damage reduction" monster mod is new, and that one feels really bad... and there's been people complaining things like soul eater are more common but like you said it could just be confirmation bias etc.

I haven't been having too much trouble with rares myself, I think they're still in a better place than they were in Kalandra. Life Regen was a major pain when my dps was lower though, I wouldn't be sad to see that removed.

[Edge-]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile...timate_weapon/

Why this league is so great: It really respects players time.

I almost want to find the fuller video to hear Carn rage about this, he really is the angriest French PoE player on the planet.

But real, this kinda shit is a big part of why I've stopped this league. If I'm going to spend dozens of maps finding good base trees to combine and then leveling them up and have, "You get literally one shitty passive" as a potential outcome? Yeah, no, fuck that. PoE is supposed to be grindy and I'm fine with that, but that's a level of disrespecting player time that I can't tolerate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile...s_dies_towhat/

Also, HCSSF Ruthless race continues to go well. People keep ripping in the low 90's and I don't think anyone has even attempted an uber yet. Which is fine to a point, it's only been a week and literally 0 of the normal racers are playing this race. But I'm still gonna laugh if nobody even ends up winning this race over the course of the league as players simply die and quit.

It's one thing to spin up another HCSSF character in short order, especially if you've got some saved gear sitting in your tab to speed up leveling. It's another thing in Ruthless where you're still looking at days and days and days of farming white maps for XP and drops again before even considering the move to yellow again.

[Fencers]

LMFAO!

What a kick in the jewels.

Edit: Also the slam fell on the second guy. That doesn't seem mysterious.

[Gorsameth]

I really want no one to actually be able to complete the race over the entire league just to really drive home the point of how garbage the 'vision' really is and to hear what excuses GGG comes up with.

[Edge-]

I really want no one to actually be able to complete the race over the entire league just to really drive home the point of how garbage the 'vision' really is and to hear what excuses GGG comes up with.

"It's fine if nobody wins the race or even really watches it because that's not the point." - GGG, likely.

Which they may be right about at the end of the day in terms of their goals for the race. But their goals and the goals of the community are two very, very different things. People like watching races and racers seem to enjoy the race, well minus this one as I don't believe any racers are even trying lol. Hell, more folks are HC Trade this league than HCSSF given that this league mechanic basically requires trading to be of any utility.

[Fencers]

They are getting really close to the line of bad game design on this one. Bad game design contradicts itself.

GGG was supposed to have worked on this league longer than normal.

[Edge-]

Looking at the update thread - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3362856

Can't help but feel like they launched this league straight into the dumpster knowing it would be bad and never even considered addressing issues post-launch unless they straight up broke the game.

Which seems to have worked for them to a point - highest peak concurrency at league launch and retention appears to be solid as well (anecdotally feels like they've been doing more of a UA push on top of last league just being a damned good league) so whatever they're doing appears to be working given those metrics.