[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Gorsameth]

Sounds like they were planning to focus on 0.2 and circle back like Jonathan said, but I imagine they saw the backlash/tantrum/whatever, but that they had some meetings today and decided to reallocate a few developers for a bit. I imagine they may have the bones of something laying about they can slap together for this or something, but either way I'm glad that they're reacting quickly. Just a shame they didn't think of announcing something like this with the delay, would have really chilled folks out. There'd still be plenty of grumbling and dooming, but the mood has already turned considerably off the reactionary announcement.

The obvious answer why they didn't do this with the delay announcement is because they didn't expect the community to get this mad.

Which only goes to show how utterly out of touch they are because everyone in the community would have seen this reaction coming.

[Cyclone Jack]

Long ago, that is exactly what we thought private leagues were going to be.

And yes, GGG would get a few hundred bucks out of me monthly if that was the case.

I'm really hoping they revisit this some day. The excuse I got from Chris Wilson was something to the effect of, "If a streamer is playing with all these mods, it would skew the viewer's perception of the game."

[Edge-]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3717515

first PoE event details. yep, witch literally can become a harbinger I love it. gambler seems kinda neat.

AND WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT AN INVENTORY WINDOW FOR THE FUCKING MAP DEVICE

if they'd come out swinging with this alongside the delay announcement I think the response would have been actually pretty positive overall. This looks like it could be cracked as hell.

[Mevaya]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3717515

first PoE event details. yep, witch literally can become a harbinger I love it. gambler seems kinda neat.

AND WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT AN INVENTORY WINDOW FOR THE FUCKING MAP DEVICE

if they'd come out swinging with this alongside the delay announcement I think the response would have been actually pretty positive overall. This looks like it could be cracked as hell.

To me it looks like the relic window from Sanctum. Maybe some kind of items to adjust map content?

[Fencers]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3717515

first PoE event details. yep, witch literally can become a harbinger I love it. gambler seems kinda neat..

I thought this was a Reddit meme, but I was on a plane and haven't seen the official notes till now. Holy hot honey, the madmen did it.

[Edge-]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3719001

We're now 10 weeks into Early Access, and what a wild ride it has been! This has been our largest launch ever and it certainly broke through our expectations, but we are well into Path of Exile 2’s first launch now, so it’s time to take a look at what we have done so far, what remains to solve, and what we are going to be doing next.

Since launch we've released 8 patches and 31 hotfixes, each containing various improvements, bug fixes, and of course incremental improvements to the sound, art, effects and environments.

The changes we have been making fall into a few categories:

Quality of Life Features
Since launch there have been many things that players have found annoying or time consuming, so we have been trying to address them one by one.

Two of the big ones are the ability to teleport around the map with checkpoints and overwrite items in sockets but there are a lot of smaller ones as well.

We have also been making QOL improving balance changes like reducing the cost of respeccing, making dodge roll get you stuck less often, and making reviving easier in multiplayer.

Improving the Core Experience of Mapping
The endgame is one of the hardest areas to test in an online game. It takes quite a lot of play to get to the point where you can form an opinion on what is good and what is bad, so having such a large number of players get to the endgame has been incredibly valuable.

To start with, we improved the rewards of endgame substantially by buffing drops from rare monsters and decreased the difficulty at the start of endgame.

We also had a lot of balance adjustments to make within individual maps. We did a full rebalance of all the content that can spawn in maps. Mostly more of everything.

One of the key realisations since launch was how important it is to have more variety in tower maps, so we made it a priority and patched in four more, as well as a better variation on the existing tower map we had.

And we realised that we had way undershot the number of bosses in endgame, so we increased that a lot too, and added a new tablet to allow for adding more of them.

We also added respawning to the endgame pinnacles, checkpoints for travelling in maps, improved strongboxes, and made it a lot easier to find citadels.

There is still a lot more to do to improve the endgame though!

Itemisation Improvements
Existing unique items got a lot of improvements. We buffed a very large number of them to make them much more exciting to find for low level characters. But we do have a need for a lot more build defining uniques going forward.

Fixing Bad Balance Outliers
One of the hardest things about game design is that it only takes a mistake in a single number to make a player have a terrible experience.

We made a ton of changes to monsters and bosses to fix one shots, improved telegraphing, buffed minimum item drops to name a few.

We also addressed a lot of difficulty problems in both the Trial of Chaos and the Trial of the Sekhemas.

On the player side of things, we did a big pass to improve the balance of many skills, but there is still a lot more to come.

We did attempt to address some of the more overpowered player skills, but backed off somewhat in order to prevent breaking peoples characters. We initially thought that there would be more tolerance for this kind of thing during Early Access, but we were incorrect! We will save changes like this for larger balance updates.

We are still nerfing things if they are totally egregious though.

Fixing Crashes and Performance Issues
Crashes have been a major area of focus for the development team since launch. We have fixed hundreds of different crashes, but there are still more to find.

On the server side of things, we have reduced the number of crashes significantly. They should be very rare now.

The client side of things has been a lot harder to deal with. For the most part, crashes in gameplay code have been addressed, but there are some much harder engine crashes that we have yet to find.

The worst of these is a full system freeze that has occurred since Windows 11’s 24H2 update. We still don’t know exactly what caused this problem, but we have deployed a workaround that seems to be preventing the freeze. We are working with Microsoft to find a better long term solution.

The remaining crashes are happening inside the GPU driver, known as “Device removed” errors. We have added a command line switch “--ex-crash-report” which adds extra logging to help us debug this issue at the cost of a small amount of performance. (Once you have crashed a couple of times with this option enabled, you can disable it again, we will have enough reports).

We are working with nVidia to try and come up with a fix for this issue. Switching to Vulkan seems to reduce the number of crashes significantly for some users, so we would suggest trying that if you are crashing often.

The Biggest Problems
So what are the biggest problems we see with Path of Exile 2 right now? Well, other than the crashes, these are the biggest issues we think we can’t solve without a major update.

Major balance issues with many player skills / builds, both too high and too low
Not enough character build options including build defining uniques
Endgame progression balance is off
Not enough cool things to find in endgame

And so these are the things that we expect to improve in 0.2.0. In addition, we need to make sure that 0.2.0 has a draw card that will bring back as many players as possible to test the changes that we are making!

We don’t have an exact timeline for 0.2.0, but our overall plan has been to release major content updates for Path of Exile 2 every few months. We will announce it as soon as we can!

Update on PoE2. Generally, seems fine/good/reasonable.

Still definitely waiting on 0.2.0 before coming back, but seems like they're reacting to the actual playerbase well.

[NoiseTank13]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/vi...ge/1#p25946809

added two more poe1 LoP ascendancies

Templar "Vaal Architect" which to me just seems like just tailor made for Vaal Blade Vortex
Shadow "Arakaali Adherent" which is Arakaali's Fang bait

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I am absolutely going to make a spider assassin.

[rogoth]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3719001



Update on PoE2. Generally, seems fine/good/reasonable.

Still definitely waiting on 0.2.0 before coming back, but seems like they're reacting to the actual playerbase well.

this glosses over so much annoying shit that needs addressing if they have any hope of people sticking around long term, the xp on death thing is just dumb when you already get punished by losing your entire map and waystone, the xp scaling curve past lvl 90 is ridiculous, most players will never reach even mid lvl 90's, nevermind hitting level cap by the time a season ends.

some other things that really bother me is that so many fundamental things are locked behind being forced to pay real money for stash tabs, when they have the absolute fucking gall to charge such ridiculous sums for armour cosmetics and the like, why are stash tabs still being treated as some kind of luxury item in game when they are fundamental to the overall play experience, you should be provided with a few regular stash tabs, a currency tab, a waystone tab, and a 'sellers tab' as part of the base experience, if you want more stuff then you can use gold to buy them, it blows my mind that LE has this 'premium' functionality for in game gold yet this technology seems beyond GGG despite having more financial backing than most indie devs could ever dream of.

[Edge-]

this glosses over so much annoying shit that needs addressing if they have any hope of people sticking around long term, the xp on death thing is just dumb when you already get punished by losing your entire map and waystone, the xp scaling curve past lvl 90 is ridiculous, most players will never reach even mid lvl 90's, nevermind hitting level cap by the time a season ends.

some other things that really bother me is that so many fundamental things are locked behind being forced to pay real money for stash tabs, when they have the absolute fucking gall to charge such ridiculous sums for armour cosmetics and the like, why are stash tabs still being treated as some kind of luxury item in game when they are fundamental to the overall play experience, you should be provided with a few regular stash tabs, a currency tab, a waystone tab, and a 'sellers tab' as part of the base experience, if you want more stuff then you can use gold to buy them, it blows my mind that LE has this 'premium' functionality for in game gold yet this technology seems beyond GGG despite having more financial backing than most indie devs could ever dream of.

I think a lot of those are "bigger issues for 0.2 and beyond", in general. This is them looking at immediate problems so they can try to get a better idea of how to tackle overall endgame balance. I imagine the same goes for XP/progression etc. as well. This is very early access, for better for worse.

Stash tabs though...they're not "mandatory" unless you plan on somewhat serious play, really, and you can get by without them. But that's a fairly low price to pay for some big QoL for a F2P game (not while in EA at least) with a ton of free content.

LE charges an up-front cost. PoE2, when released, will not. I'm not sure how many different stash tabs they'll have by full release, but, especially given the frequency of stash tab sale weekends, it's very likely one could pick up at least all the big ones, and possibly all of them, for about the $35 base price of last epoch.

GGG also cranks out a lot more content than other developers like EHG does for LE - which isn't a dig at them or a competition, different games working on different things and LE is doing a huge engine update in the coming months etc. It's a F2P game at the end of the day even if it provides the full content to players and doesn't hold anything back - the first "taste" is free, but if you want to get deeper into it they very much would like you to spend a bit.

[Trifle]

NZ hiring laws suck. Apparently you have to prove there's nobody locally you can train to do the job which is...incredibly time consuming and expensive to try to do even.

Pretty sure that's just to get visas. There's nothing stopping you just outsourcing stuff overseas / having overseas employees.

[Fencers]

Ohh, Trialmaster and Spider also look like they have good tech. These ascendencies are kinda dope.

- - - Updated - - -

some other things that really bother me is that so many fundamental things are locked behind being forced to pay real money for stash tabs,

This is completely, factually, untrue. An entire popular game mode disavows this claim. If the game "forced" players to buy tabs, then this mode could not exist. Yet it does.

[Edge-]

Pretty sure that's just to get visas. There's nothing stopping you just outsourcing stuff overseas / having overseas employees.

Yep. I've been talking/thinking a lot about that this for a while since GGG keeps complaining about this. Maybe once PoE2 is out and in the swing of things they'll have more money/bandwidth and both games will justify the development time to make this more of a possibility for them.

[Fencers]

It's not easy to develop games or software remotely either. Just an FYI.

Running a company and managing people is not as easy as just typing, "They should do this."

[Mevaya]

this glosses over so much annoying shit that needs addressing if they have any hope of people sticking around long term, the xp on death thing is just dumb when you already get punished by losing your entire map and waystone, the xp scaling curve past lvl 90 is ridiculous, most players will never reach even mid lvl 90's, nevermind hitting level cap by the time a season ends.

some other things that really bother me is that so many fundamental things are locked behind being forced to pay real money for stash tabs, when they have the absolute fucking gall to charge such ridiculous sums for armour cosmetics and the like, why are stash tabs still being treated as some kind of luxury item in game when they are fundamental to the overall play experience, you should be provided with a few regular stash tabs, a currency tab, a waystone tab, and a 'sellers tab' as part of the base experience, if you want more stuff then you can use gold to buy them, it blows my mind that LE has this 'premium' functionality for in game gold yet this technology seems beyond GGG despite having more financial backing than most indie devs could ever dream of.

People need to realize PoE2 is Early Access and wont be in a comparable state to PoE1 for several years to come.
Thats why i think its so funny people call for PoE1 to be sunset already.

[KrayZ33]

This is completely, factually, untrue. An entire popular game mode disavows this claim. If the game "forced" players to buy tabs, then this mode could not exist. Yet it does.

Pretty sure he is correct? The stashtabs you start with are certainly not enough for proper inventory management, I'd argue that's pretty fundamental in an ARPG, especially if the game itself is basically designed in a way that you makes inventory management tedious as hell.

It'd be news to me that PoE2 has a "no premium stashes" league or something?

Before I decided to pay some $ (as in, spending my EA currency) I was about to quit the game due to this, and even after purchasing them, it's still horrible but less so. Trade is not why you need them, in fact that's the least important factor.

[Edge-]

Pretty sure he is correct? The stashtabs you start with are certainly not enough for proper inventory management, I'd argue that's pretty fundamental in an ARPG, especially if the game itself is basically designed in a way that you makes inventory management tedious as hell.

It'd be news to me that PoE2 has a "no premium stashes" league or something?

Before I decided to pay some $ (as in, spending my EA currency) I was about to quit the game due to this, and even after purchasing them, it's still horrible but less so. Trade is not why you need them, in fact that's the least important factor.

Depending on how seriously you play, they are. Most casual players won't really need a bunch of premium or quad tabs, and can probably manage most of their currency via a single normal tab, for example.

If you play seriously, they want you to spend a bit of money. If you play casually, you get an enormous amount of free content at the cost of having to manage your stash more carefully.

[Fencers]

Pretty sure he is correct?

No. The game does not force you to buy tabs to play. You can play entirely without additional tabs.

The stashtabs you start with are certainly not enough for proper inventory management,

The gameplay doesn't promote hoarding discrete items by default in POE 1 or 2. Currency stacks and self-consumes, it is designed to be used continually.

Wanting to hold on to X or Y items or arrange items in tabs just so- that's your personal business. The gameplay does not enforce this in the expression of the game design and by admittance of the developers for 10+ years now. The devs recently said they are on the side of "gambling with your currency" and continually push the game toward consuming currency as the default expression.

"Forced" would mean the rules of operation in Path of Exile 1 or 2 must disallow play without those tabs.

A "nice to have" is not a forced gameplay expression. That notion is ignorance of game design.

[KrayZ33]

No. The game does not force you to buy tabs to play. You can play entirely without additional tabs.

The gameplay doesn't promote hoarding discrete items by default in POE 1 or 2. Currency stacks and self-consumes, it is designed to be used continually.

Wanting to hold on to X or Y items or arrange items in tabs just so- that's your personal business. The gameplay does not enforce this in the expression of the game design and by admittance of the developers for 10+ years now. The devs recently said they are on the side of "gambling with your currency" and continually push the game toward consuming currency as the default expression.

"Forced" would mean the rules of operation in Path of Exile 1 or 2 must disallow play without those tabs.

A "nice to have" is not a forced gameplay expression. That notion is ignorance of game design.

What are you even talking about?
Who says anything about "I can only play this game if I buy a stash tab". Literally no one suggested that.

some other things that really bother me is that so many fundamental things are locked behind being forced to pay real money for stash tabs

does not mean what you think it means. The "game start" button is not greyed out and something being fundamental doesn't mean that either.

And everything else you said is arguably false or just dishonest as heck.
If I own 5 characters that are on different levels, I need way more space than I have available. *Way* more, unless I really, really want to have a horrible time.
From Waystones to just uniques and general loot that might be good for my next build/character etc., it's just not there by default.
Even less so if you actualy want to play this freaking game for a minute or two without just leaving everything on the ground that could be an upgrade (and I'm not talking about minor ones that increase your res% from 20% to 21% on one item), because even if you just loot potential upgrades, you would be constantly managing your inventory without the big tabs to put them into when your inventory is full.

Imagine for a second that

The devs recently said they are on the side of "gambling with your currency" and continually push the game toward consuming currency as the default expression.

means you should stop every 2 meters to smack some shit on your items that I just looted. How unfun is that, but since "tHe DeVs SaId" something (that nobody does) it means something?

[Edge-]

If I own 5 characters that are on different levels, I need way more space than I have available. *Way* more, unless I really, really want to have a horrible time.

Why? What gear are you hording for all of them, especially the lower level characters? Having some leveling gear is nice, but if you're saving a ton of low level rares that are "pretty good" for alts that's probably not a great use of space.

From Waystones to just uniques and general loot that might be good for my next build/character etc.

Waystones are a challenge that literally everyone is dealing with now, there's no waystone tab.

For uniques, don't collect them if you don't think they'll be useful - hording costs a bit of money. Inventory management has always been a part of ARPGs.