[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Mevaya]

Looking forward to PoE1 league. Somehow I doubt it will be a "one month" thing, but I suspect they've done that because they have a rough expectation that 0.2.0 will be coming out one month after league start and want the maximum amount of attention for that release as possible. Will be super lame if they have 16 new ascendancies and you only get four weeks to play around with them though - in any case I'm excited about what craziness will come out of build crafting after the previews they've shown so far.

At this point they should just turn it into a league. Its already called "Legacy of Phrecia"....just import league mechanics that did not get implemented into the base game like we did in Legacy League (Sentinel, Scourge, Synthesis whatever). People will be happy for 4 months with this and the new ascendancies. So bizarre to me that this did not occur to GGG from the start.

[Fencers]

no, it's got nothing to do with speed and more to do with actually selling items, which is nigh impossible without access to the dedicated trading site

Well, it does. Ultimately you prefer the efficacy of trading, specifically selling, via the website interface. This is what your posts boil down to in the end. Which is fine- I prefer that efficacy as well. Frankly, I dislike POE1/2 trade in many regards overall.

which is a paywalled item that is DIRECTLY impacting the gameplay experience of the vast majority of players and a core aspect to the game for that vast majority of players... and yet you and EDGE are championing this as totally fine, and that having a worse experience is just 'how it works' and should be accepted, it's truly baffling to me...

Whoa, whoa. This is an assumption that is contradicted by the developers of Path of Exile franchise (and by EHG most recently). All four major developers of Grinding Gear Games have stated throughout the years that only a small % of the player base ever interacts with trade. And fewer still interact in what Chris Wilson deemed, "a meaningful way."

Moreover, these developers have said openly (over the years and most recently) that friction in trade is by design. GGG wants trade to have a barrier to entry that is extrinsic to the gameplay. GGG have stated they want volatility in the markets and have changed the value of currency over the years to promote volatility.

The manifestos explaining the developer's position and philosophy of Trade and the ease of use for Trade can still be found on their official forums, IIRC.

If you wish to claim GGG made trading cumbersome or that you find trade cumbersome - that is working as intended.

If you dislike that aspect, I am on your side - the systems are still working as intended, however.

that you suggest a forum site that has so little traffic it sees maybe 4-5 ACTUAL trade posts a day, or an in-game trade channel that has been so overrun with bots and scammers that it's literally impossible to use as most have it turned off or think you're one of the aforementioned bots/scammers and actively ignore you, meaning that other than the dedicated trading site, there's no FEASIBLE way to trade in the game, which for the vast majority of players, is a FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT OF THEIR GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE, and in order for that to not be the case, you're forced to pay real money, which is abhorrent.

I am sorry. This is simply not true. Trading is possible without explicitly having index tabs for selling game equipment - the value of, utility, or ease of trade is not relevant.

You're all over the place here. Trade via the trade website in POE1/2 is neither forced nor fundamental to the game at all. Neither POE1 nor 2 even direct players on this information (anything not expressed within the gameplay of a game is irrelevant to game design).

Trade, especially via third-party and first-party out-of-game means, is also not fundamental to the ARPG genre and POE1/2 (to the best of my knowledge) are the only two games in the history of ARPGs that offer such a means. The two most popular games in the ARPG genre did not even have player-motivated economics and those 2 games have been at the top of the genre in popularity since 2012 to 2025. Many newer ARPGs do not even offer trading.

[rogoth]

Well, it does. Ultimately you prefer the efficacy of trading, specifically selling, via the website interface. This is what your posts boil down to in the end. Which is fine- I prefer that efficacy as well. Frankly, I dislike POE1/2 trade in many regards overall.



Whoa, whoa. This is an assumption that is contradicted by the developers of Path of Exile franchise (and by EHG most recently). All four major developers of Grinding Gear Games have stated throughout the years that only a small % of the player base ever interacts with trade. And fewer still interact in what Chris Wilson deemed, "a meaningful way."

Moreover, these developers have said openly (over the years and most recently) that friction in trade is by design. GGG wants trade to have a barrier to entry that is extrinsic to the gameplay. GGG have stated they want volatility in the markets and have changed the value of currency over the years to promote volatility.

The manifestos explaining the developer's position and philosophy of Trade and the ease of use for Trade can still be found on their official forums, IIRC.

If you wish to claim GGG made trading cumbersome or that you find trade cumbersome - that is working as intended.

If you dislike that aspect, I am on your side - the systems are still working as intended, however.



I am sorry. This is simply not true. Trading is possible without explicitly having index tabs for selling game equipment - the value of, utility, or ease of trade is not relevant.

You're all over the place here. Trade via the trade website in POE1/2 is neither forced nor fundamental to the game at all. Neither POE1 nor 2 even direct players on this information (anything not expressed within the gameplay of a game is irrelevant to game design).

Trade, especially via third-party and first-party out-of-game means, is also not fundamental to the ARPG genre and POE1/2 (to the best of my knowledge) are the only two games in the history of ARPGs that offer such a means. The two most popular games in the ARPG genre did not even have player-motivated economics and those 2 games have been at the top of the genre in popularity since 2012 to 2025. Many newer ARPGs do not even offer trading.

no, I dislike it because it's clunky and needlessly obtuse, and shows how little they care about it because it's the only viable way to trade currently.

and pray do tell, when was that info released, at what point was the data for PoE2 released that showed it was 'so few interact with the mechanism in a meaningful way' I guess I missed that memo, or is it just legacy media you're relying on to support your antiquated and out of date viewpoint?

how am I 'all over the place'? i made a comment in response to the lack of core gameplay features, and one of them was in relation to how restrictive trading was behind a paywall, that's been my point which I am still repeating to this point, same as @Nzx previously, he used the old and tired 'moving goalposts' bullshit to try and discredit what I'm saying because they didn't understand the point, and now you're trying to do the same thing, I haven't deviated from my point, which @KrayZ33 understood and tried to argue for me, but to no avail as you and EDGE ignored the point being made and still rely on your out of date 'but that's not how it worked in the olden days' mentality/etc.

i truly don't understand how you're happy to defend such an anti-consumer practice when it's clear as day to see that the game is designed in such a poor way to prevent 'X' from happening unless you pay money to partially circumvent said thing, it must be the north American mindset where you have been conditioned to accept this as normal, because I sure as shit don't, and find it abhorrent that it's even a debate.

you have said you can still trade in-game via the trade chat channel, I have dared you to back that claim up and you refused because we both know that's not gonna happen, you and EDGE suggested using the trading forum on the GGG website, which sees such little traffic because of the over HALF A MILLION PLAYERS of PoE2, less than 0.001% actually use that particular site for trading because that's how many people probably know it even exists.

so I'm guessing the player-driven economy of diablo 2 didn't exist (it did), I'm guessing the entire gold AND realm money auction house in diablo 3 was just a figment of the imagination (it wasn't), or the entire faction system built from the ground up to be the best version of trading in any ARPG I have played in LE is just some mass conspiracy, or how about the trade economy in grim dawn, that was done exclusively via forums, and was entirely player-driven via trading items of similar value for each other, a LITERAL TRADE system because currency was meaningless, did I just imagine that whole period of time in the early 2010's?

if you're gonna make such a disingenuous comment, at least try and pretend to genuine about it.

[Fencers]

no, I dislike it because it's clunky and needlessly obtuse, and shows how little they care about it because it's the only viable way to trade currently.

That is all fine emotions to have. They are just not true about the game. That's how you feel.

You simply wish to impose how you feel as the truth of the operation of the game. And that is not wholly true. "Clunky" isn't a metric, that's your feeling. There is no value in discussion about how you feel on this - that is fine for you to feel that way, 100%. It is disingenuous to make statements based on that feeling about how the game operates, however.

If you can not make that distinction or the distinction isn't functionally important to you, then do not converse with me. I am only interested in the gameplay design of video games as a conversation topic.

and pray do tell, when was that info released, at what point was the data for PoE2 released that showed it was 'so few interact with the mechanism in a meaningful way' I guess I missed that memo, or is it just legacy media you're relying on to support your antiquated and out of date viewpoint?

It is an old interview and Chris said this of POE1 specifically. POE 2 was not released at the time.

However, you have no reason to assume there is an inverse in the pattern of users in the franchise or for POE2 specifically. It is more likely based on the statements developers have made about their own game that the historical reality of user behavior has not deviated significantly unless stated otherwise.

how am I 'all over the place'?

You mentioned trade broadly with specificity or granularity, transposed states of play to the genre overall, talked about the game(s) overall, moved goal posts, broguth up other games supposing systems had a similar operation, pared down your statements to one or two points, etc over your previous posts.

I addressed simply; 1. POE 1 and 2 do not express in their gameplay that trade via the premium stash tabs is a fundamental part of play and 2. Trade can and still is permissible outside selling items via indexed tabs.

To assert the game has forced players into buying these fundamental tabs (as a luxury) is false. SSF could not exist as viable & popular play mode (it does exist), the game(s) would need to express the necessity for premium tabs in gameplay (they do not), and trade would have no other vectors of platforms available.

"Forced to pay real money" is misinformation and a disingenuous statement.

i made a comment in response to the lack of core gameplay features, and one of them was in relation to how restrictive trading was behind a paywall, that's been my point which I am still repeating to this point

These are not core gameplay features that are deprived to players. The efficacy of these features is limited, however.

i truly don't understand how you're happy to defend such an anti-consumer practice when it's clear as day to see that the game is designed in such a poor way to prevent 'X' from happening unless you pay money to partially circumvent said thing,

1. I do not view this as anti-consumer.

2. I disagree the limitation is overly burdensome.

3. I agree the convenience of trading tabs is huge!

4. I am on t he side of game design, not the consumer.

To refine #4 so you understand my POV; A game designer executing the vision of their art (I think games are Art) is more important to me than my entertainment via that art.

Path of Exile 1 and 2's game designers believe trade ought to have a point of friction. Both games express that friction via the trade website index.

[prwraith]

Pretty much the entire trade manifesto they posted years back, is utter hogwash.

They focus so much on what the problem MIGHT become, instead of on how the problem can be mitigated. And in the end, do nothing for fear of potentially mis-stepping. Which is even more pathetic.

[Ghost of Cow]

Honestly, I wish more games made trading a little more "clunky".

Modern auction houses behave more like NPC vendors that just happen to stock and buy everything than actual functional marketplaces. It's more fun when you can wheel and deal and find the gaps and wedges in markets.

[Biomega]

Honestly, I wish more games made trading a little more "clunky".

Modern auction houses behave more like NPC vendors that just happen to stock and buy everything than actual functional marketplaces. It's more fun when you can wheel and deal and find the gaps and wedges in markets.

I hate that the only solution games have come up with to curb the degenerate power gains of trading is to make it clunky and inefficient to execute. I get that it... kinda works, sorta maybe... but it's just so inelegant and rough that this is the best way they've found to not make power gains all about economic skill.

[Fencers]

"Friction" as a point of design to curb the outrageous power of effectively shopping for your gear is fine in concept.

I think the way POE1/2 handle it puts that power on the knowledge side rather than gameplay side of things. I can't fully endorse design that is not expressed in game.

I view this as an error of design philosophy, personally speaking.

There were flaws with RMT AH in D3, naturally. But I could at least respect that the primary means of interaction were all within the game and expressed in the gameplay.

I didn't have to buy a thing, figure out the syntax of the thing I bought, then find rhe website within a website, then figure out the syntax of that website, then... well, just fuck it really.

That isn't any better than paying $2 for my OP axe in D3 AH or $10 for the red diamonds in Undecember.

Bad design, IMO.

[Nzx]

I have 1525 points burning a hole in my pocket. Anyone know when the next stash tab sale is? I have this strange urge to buy one and I don't know why.

Alternatively someone give me some MTX recommendations - particularly interested in weapon effects (I have like 10 that are all mostly just red, be good to have some other colours) or weapons themselves, especially shields.

[Biomega]

I didn't have to buy a thing, figure out the syntax of the thing I bought, then find rhe website within a website, then figure out the syntax of that website, then... well, just fuck it really.

That's exactly the problem, but it's even worse than that, because if it wasn't this complicated and annoying, trading would be totally degenerate and make people play the market instead of the game - exactly what happened with D3 and the AH where you'd be an idiot to go and kill monsters for loot when instead you could just monitor the AH and fill out spreadsheets to arbitrage yourself to wealth and buy items you could never find yourself in a hundred years.

But this "solution" is like them going oh I know how to fix brick & mortar retail! Just make it so instead of Amazon having a website you can browse, you first need to call a hotline and work through an automated keypad dialing system so they can fax you a catalog of items you may be interested in. You then fill out order forms on a 30-foot roll of fax paper, and when you're done you call an agent and dictate your forms one by one to them over the phone. And presto, you get your package mailed to you just like with Amazon! ...and it'd be so infuriatingly annoying people would say fuck it and drive into town to shop instead.

But is that REALLY a "solution".

[Edge-]

I have 1525 points burning a hole in my pocket. Anyone know when the next stash tab sale is? I have this strange urge to buy one and I don't know why.

Alternatively someone give me some MTX recommendations - particularly interested in weapon effects (I have like 10 that are all mostly just red, be good to have some other colours) or weapons themselves, especially shields.

Not sure when, but they're almost always running during a weekend. They're pretty frequent, so you shouldn't have to wait too long.

[Fencers]

That's exactly the problem, but it's even worse than that, because if it wasn't this complicated and annoying, trading would be totally degenerate and make people play the market instead of the game - exactly what happened with D3 and the AH where you'd be an idiot to go and kill monsters for loot when instead you could just monitor the AH and fill out spreadsheets to arbitrage yourself to wealth and buy items you could never find yourself in a hundred years.

Yeah. Spot on.

Again, the concept of trading friction is not bad. The way GGG decided to do it, in my opinion, is not well-designed.

But is that REALLY a "solution".

Undecember has pretty neat idea. They have an in-game auction and trading house. The auction house allows trade with the same league & mode (such as HC). The trading house allows trade across leagues and modes. Both have commission fees (gold sink) and require CS currency in the form of Rubies. But one can Bid or B/O an item only on the auction house. Only B/O on the trading house.

Players have to get through a decent amount of the campaign first. And they have to wait 48 hours to claim their stuff.

This puts a lot of friction within the game systems- deletes gold, consumes items as they will rarely go back into the item pool, and often leaves the SC leagues.

Further, to trade efficiency you want to pack up wares into auction boxes- this requires time and gold but is essentially free to do. So bulk trading and low item/bubblegum can be traded up the ladder.

To the player, this all simply functions as an auction house with its trade currency and gold fee.

Edit: I should add Rubies are also gained from playing and selling stuff. Not just the cash shop, but you can get them there too.

[Edge-]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3720737

Huh...

So they're removing the atlas passive tree and replacing it with, basically, relics for your map device inventory that have atlas passive effects on them.

Honestly I do not understand this. The atlas passive tree is the best part of endgame and they've improved it considerably over the years. Even if these things drop like candy they'll be tedious to manage if you want to have multiple setups, much less hoping for some of the potentially broken outcomes.

I'm still totally gonna play the event/league, but this is just kinda a baffling decision. Feels like a "we want to test some PoE2 ideas before PoE2" which like yeah, I get it but just... : /

[Fencers]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3720737

Huh...

So they're removing the atlas passive tree and replacing it with, basically, relics for your map device inventory that have atlas passive effects on them.

Honestly I do not understand this. The atlas passive tree is the best part of endgame and they've improved it considerably over the years. Even if these things drop like candy they'll be tedious to manage if you want to have multiple setups, much less hoping for some of the potentially broken outcomes.

I'm still totally gonna play the event/league, but this is just kinda a baffling decision. Feels like a "we want to test some PoE2 ideas before PoE2" which like yeah, I get it but just... : /

This does not please me...

IF this is one of the 'whacky ideas' that didn't make it and now is for the event, great. If not... I have concerns.

[Edge-]

This does not please me...

That does seem to be the general sentiment. The only way I can see this being worth a void league and shit is if basically all the relics are cracked out of the gate. Go fucking bananas, it's a void league.

[Fencers]

That does seem to be the general sentiment. The only way I can see this being worth a void league and shit is if basically all the relics are cracked out of the gate. Go fucking bananas, it's a void league.

But the issue would be; am I running white maps all the time?

Are these so plentiful that I need 7 more quad tabs to store all this?

If there is no standard atlas tree and/or these tablets are scarce... am I just running un-juiced maps?

That GGG post didn't really make it clear. If I have to run Sanctum to make a fucking div, I quit.

I have had enough Sanctum dammit.

They are going to make me run Blight and Heist. What are you doing, GGG?

Chris. Please, I am begging you. Come back.

I will go 50/50 on a gamblers anonymous intervention for GGG. This obsession with gambling is getting out of hand.

[Mevaya]

Yes i already made a post in the forums that will go unread. They should have these relics on top of the atlas tree and have them include new kinds of league bonuses or old league mechanics.

Removing the atlas tree and giving it back to players per RNG drops seems just tedious to me.

[NoiseTank13]

Actually saw a Reddit post that I agreed with.

Have that replace the Scarab systems, win/win.

But I dunno. What's the point of completing the Atlas now? What if I get stuck with only fucking Heist idols dropping? If I'm not a 24 map mod juicer am I shit out of luck?

Someone needs to send Johnathon home from the kitchen, he's a danger to everyone cooking.

[Fencers]

Most hate this change to the atlas it seems.

While I appreciate that GGG is fairly experimental and this is merely a void league, don't mess with the best part of your game in favor of gambling. Jeez Louise.

They got me sweating over this event just by that announcement and I am glad the reaction from the community is similar.

- - - Updated - - -

Removing the atlas tree and giving it back to players per RNG drops seems just tedious to me.

Imagine having to run regular maps or mechanics you hate/aren't built for just to pay 100 div for a Deli or Harbinger idol.

What in the fuck.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3720737

Huh...

So they're removing the atlas passive tree and replacing it with, basically, relics for your map device inventory that have atlas passive effects on them. /

Oh I absolutely hate that.

The atlas at the moment is almost perfect having to fumble with drops instead is going to suck.