[Megathread] Path of Exile

[Fencers]

Having skills that generate and use charges is fine. Making it a core aspect of a weapon type (You are correct, it is technically tied to a weapon and not the class) is not. Imagine if, in PoE1, you needed Frenzy Charges for Daggers to deal appropriate damage. Not more damage, appropriate damage. Charges of any kind should be very much optional, and you should gain additional benefit from utilizing them, not just break even.

Then again, balance in PoE2 is literally all over the place all at once.

I can't disagree with the hypothetical here because they are different states of play.

They could make a skill (or weapon group) as such; they just haven't up to now.

But that just speaks to a more robust gameplay in POE1. If GGG did make a skill gem(s) that only worked with daggers & an associated buff that would be fine. Largely because you'd have the means to support it in POE1.

Technically, unarmed in POE1 is functionally that- not so much the charges. But you have to use specific gems and equipment to make it work. And that's fine, because as mentioned you could support and scale it.

However, the way GGG did it in POE2 w/r/t spears is very poor. Even at the very most generous scale possible, needing to Parry for chatges to do a 5-6 button combo is sound in theory. In practice, its terrible damage, game flow and (frankly) exhausting.

I hit that Chimera boss with the full wombo--twister-combo and was doing about 10% more damage at best. That's bad.

Having to cancel and back out of a set up for the wombo combo is even worse.

Honestly, this action and collision based gameplay is not GGG's strong suit whatsoever. Just terrible, IMO.

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This is it for me. It feels like we have pieces of three different versions of the game smashed together or something and the people responsible for each different version are still arguing over whose vision is T H E V I S I O N.

For the interviews where Mark and Jonathan often say "That's a discussion we still need to have." about core elements such as accuracy, map sustain, or ARMOR, I would say they are still deciding what the vision is- yet alone who's.

[Edge-]

For the interviews where Mark and Jonathan often say "That's a discussion we still need to have." about core elements such as accuracy, map sustain, or ARMOR, I would say they are still deciding what the vision is- yet alone who's.

I'm just wondering how much work was scrapped over the years of working on this game, especially as people share around old videos of the huntress from a few years ago. Zooming along these huge maps with like 3x the base movement speed we have and still having access to quicksilver flasks, that seemed a lot more fun.

the armour bit is just fucking crazy to me. they're designing so much content and so many systems and a literal core defensive mechanic is sorta a placeholder right now like what is even going on

they'd better not back outta the ziz interview, and they'd better not delay 3.26 (further) for 0.2

[Nzx]

So I finished the campaign last night. It took 20 hours, which is obviously far too long. I think I hung on to the Rake/Stomping Ground interaction for far too long, but I did end up "discovering" that the quality of build guides at the moment, even from reputable creators, is extremely hit or miss. After trying Woolie's double Spearfield/Rake build and finding it clunky and tedious, I spent ~60k gold respeccing 26 passive points into a Lightning Spear build. Nothing else, just the passives and the gems/supports - and now I one shot screens as much as any early-mid game PoE1 build. No parry, no five-ability combo, no dancing in and out of melee. Literally just throw Lightning Spear.

This pretty much mirrors my experience in 0.1, where I played grenade Witchhunter until my eyes bled and then rerolled to a good build and had some amount of fun with it.

I guess what I'm saying is if you went back to PoE1 tomorrow and tried to play homebrew Blazing Salvo totems on an Assassin, you'd probably have a bad time too. In PoE1 it's not unusual to level with Sunder (for example) until you get your actual skill at 30 something either. I don't think PoE2 is actually that different in that context - it falls down elsewhere.

My biggest gripe with this entire fucking game is the removal of the crafting bench, alterations, and scours. When I finished the campaign I had -40% fire res, 4% cold res, and ~60% lightning res. My boots have movement speed and life regen only. My chest is one I found at level 20 or something. I used three different spears for the entire leveling process and each of them was bought for 1ex off trade because, despite picking up (I'm not exaggerating) every single spear that dropped, transmute/auging if they're white, regalling if they hit any two reasonable mods, I never found one that was usable. I found a Meginord's Girdle in Act 1 and I used it until 65. Despite also picking up every single socketed item and every single quality item that dropped in the campaign I never had enough Artificer's Orbs to socket my gear until I was in maps. In a game/genre with historic issues around the sheer volume of useless loot that drops, making items completely bricked if you pick them up and they roll life regen/stun threshold is absurd. What I think people are really feeling is a complete lack of agency over their experience in the campaign - in PoE1 with enough knowledge you can have a relatively consistent campaign experience. In PoE2, RNG alone determines whether it takes you 12 hours or 24 hours and whether you delete bosses or die repeatedly.

I still have hope for this game, but my concerns at this point range from minor (please make a 2d version of the fucking atlas map) to major (the zones are too large and they've their heads buried in the sand about it, currency either is not in the game or is far too scarce, gearing options are non-existent in the campaign and one lucky drop is a swing from "this is the worst game ever made" to "I don't know what people are complaining about"). My hopium is we're in the Archnemesis/Kalandra league phase of this game and heading in to the back-to-back-to-back wins that led us to Settlers league.

On a positive note, the new rogue exiles are really cool as a mechanic. It reminds me a bit of the feeling of PKing someone in OSRS 20 years ago.

[Snakepit]

On a positive note - I still believe 90% of the issues can be easily (relatively) resolved with some number tuning, which can be done relatively quickly. Hell, both after 0.1 and 0.2 launches, in the first 5-7 days they added/fixed more stuff than they've fixed with the patches themselves (ok, figuratively speaking, but post-patch stuff and reactions were good and fast!).

Big maps - reduce size (if they ever give up on that). Armor - ok, rework the mechanic completely, but it's a number. Crap skills - change % and stuff. Low item and currency drop - buff the %. Monster scaling - change %. Endgame modes not competitive with each other - buff weaker, nerf potential outliers.

I still do find the core gameplay loop very good, satisfying, engaging and, I swear to god, this is the best feeling ARPG engine and graphics and aesthetics I've ever played (once you get used to the ice skating, that is....). Yes, if they try to shove stuff down the throat as mandatory mechanic e.g. the parry for the Huntress I'll throw a tantrum, but so far there seem to be enough Huntress builds that can survive without it. The parry is just clunky, I don't care if they buff it so it results in a 10000% dmg buff afterwards and is the most OP thing ever - I will not use it

P.S. It's still quite funny that there was so much bashing and memes for initial D4 itemization with the "5% chance on a Thursday night if the Moon is in its peak to throw a bolt that has 12% chance to do double damage if it hits the mob from the left and there are exactly 4 mobs in a 10-yard radius" and yet some gems here feel like exactly the same road was taken

[Nzx]

Big maps - reduce size (if they ever give up on that).

Well then, this is positive: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3748698

It's a bit concerning that literally days ago they were saying "actually the problem is there aren't enough checkpoints" and now they're like "oh whoops there was an entire side of the map that was spawning with nothing in it because what's supposed to be there is not implemented in early access yet so we're changing it". But - I won't complain about the delivery of good changes. This is a significant step in the right direction but not even close to finished.

[Snakepit]

Well then, this is positive: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3748698

It's a bit concerning that literally days ago they were saying "actually the problem is there aren't enough checkpoints" and now they're like "oh whoops there was an entire side of the map that was spawning with nothing in it because what's supposed to be there is not implemented in early access yet so we're changing it". But - I won't complain about the delivery of good changes. This is a significant step in the right direction but not even close to finished.

Yup, there we go :P But actually I have a conspiracy theory - they've been working on solutions for much longer, just pretending they don't see a problem is a marketing trick, so that when they ship said solutions, they can come out like lightning fast super heroes. I mean, Jon did say they're trying to cut down bureaucracy, but there is no way in hell you analyze a problem, think of a solution, agree on that solution, implement it, test it and deploy it in this time span.... Like when they first added checkpoints + ability to teleport to them in 0.1. Or now with the map reduction size - 4 months "maps have a size problem? We haven't heard, no data, dunno" despite community shouting every single day, and 1 day later almost like "oh, we've created a NASA space rocket this afternoon, no biggie". It's suuuuuper weird....

[Fencers]

Rutual bug is fixed. Accounts banned and wealth from the exploit is being removed.

[Edge-]

man, one of my biggest problems is just the way gems work

i want to swap from my no-longer-fun elemental leveling build to try out bleed but don't have fuckall for uncut gems to support the swap. don't need to change gear, just gems.

PoE1? walk to the vendor, buy the gems with the currency you've found, level them a bit and you're g2g

PoE2? well, if you don't have a bunch of uncut gems in your stash GO OUT AND FARM, BABY, HOPE YOU GET SOME SUPPORT DROPS AND A SPIRIT GEM DROP AND A FEW APPROPRIATE LEVEL GEM DROPS YEAH THRILLING AND EXCITING

they really need to add a vendor who sells uncut gems to each act while in the campaign. I am increasingly hating PoE2's gem system and finding it more restrictive and less flexible than PoE, which is the literal opposite of what it was supposed to be designed as.

[BeepBoo]

they are still deciding what the vision is- yet alone who's.

That seems honestly fucking stupid and like square 1 for ANY game.

[Fencers]

man, one of my biggest problems is just the way gems work

The only positive of POE2's gem system is that it does not need certain socket colors on gear. Everything else is worse.

Tabs of uncut gems you have no use for and no way to use up, having to scroll through pages of gems and listings as 3 separate menus, having to rely on drops to level gems, negatives on many supports, mana scaling relative to damage, it goes on & on.

I got 1 six link in POE2 in 4 months.

I can craft or buy a 6L in POE1 in a day at most.

That seems honestly fucking stupid and like square 1 for ANY game.

It hasn't been going well.

[Edge-]

The only positive of POE2's gem system is that it does not need certain socket colors on gear. Everything else is worse.

Tabs of uncut gems you have no use for and no way to use up, having to scroll through pages of gems and listings as 3 separate menus, having to rely on drops to level gems, negatives on many supports, mana scaling relative to damage, it goes on & on.

I got 1 six link in POE2 in 4 months.

I can craft or buy a 6L in POE1 in a day at most.

Seriously.

Phrecia was the first time I played trade in years and I was laughing at how easy it was to get a proper 6L base to craft on, felt great.

Meanwhile perfect jewelers are super expensive and, if you end up swapping off that skill, F all the investment in that perfect jewelers : (

The whole system just feels bad. Why is there no option for support gems to show all applicable support gems for a skill? Just the recommended, all gems, or whatever tag we search?

[Fencers]

What is hilarious is that the "drawback" of color sockets on gear, that it was oblique to newbs, would have been easily solved by simply having a tutorial.

It's not like Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy 10 are obscure games known to only a select few. It's the same shit as POE1.

The nuke option was to simply make white sockets default, more common, or craftable.

I will repeat, GGG has become lost in the sauce of game design. They are designing solutions to things not an issue and can not stop themselves from over-designing everything.

Restraint and project management- GGG have never known these things.

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This Ziz interview.

[Shpriest]

Jonathan is so out of touch with the player base, its unreal.

[Edge-]

This Ziz interview.

I got sidetracked at work so I'm just starting from the beginning.

Jonathan is GGG's best rambler by far. Dude just cannot stay on topic.

Jonathan: "Our goal was to nerf the things trivializing endgame" so why did they gut minions across all levels when the literal only problem was level 30+ gems roflmao

do they have Jonathan playing a completely different branch of the game or something? does he only play the campaign and then call it a day?

JONATHAN SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET ZIZ FINISH A QUESTION LMAO, dude is uber-defensive right now and like I get it but dude comes off not great. Mark is fine so far.

Edit: No Jonathan, if you fuck up balance in leveling in PoE it isn't trivial, at least not on league start when we're all poor and weak. See the AN integration patch that made everyone lose their shit (which I actually weirdly enjoyed, dunno why), for example. Jonathan is growing increasingly infuriating to listen to.

[Aoewy]

I watch on the side while working, I don't know the man so I could be a bad judge of character, but this man remind me of so many project managers who just cannot accept to be challenged in their vision.. always finding excuses being on the defensive and not letting others talk.

[Shpriest]

Ziz asking something and Jonathan just shutting it down with 'no what you are really asking is this' is my favorite part. What an arrogant smug.

[prwraith]

I've never liked that Santa claus looking fucker

And this interview didn't help

[NoiseTank13]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile...was_priceless/

Ballista's getting nerfed based on this reaction.

[Fencers]

That was probably Ziz's best interview. It might be the best any GGG dev has done about the game.

Not that it was super useful to players, necessarily. But the focus Ziz had was impressive.

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POE community memes will never be defeated. Not even by the Detroit Lions subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/s/lj6n6zhnWb

[NoiseTank13]

Apparently Ziz did a mock interview with two other streamers to get prepared for it. Respect.