Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Footsz]

Devotion Aura is arguably stronger than Demo Banner + Rally, and skull banner is something like 0.4% of total raid dps. It's probably even at the worst for us.

[Neldarie]

Lol? devotion aura is arguably weaker than EITHER cry OR demo banner. So both combined is a big no brainer. Only gearchecks this game has ever had top end were DPS, hence buffing DPS utility regardless how small is big.

[Revvo]

Lol? devotion aura is arguably weaker than EITHER cry OR demo banner. So both combined is a big no brainer. Only gearchecks this game has ever had top end were DPS, hence buffing DPS utility regardless how small is big.

I do not think the trinket works on Demo banner.

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145991-readiness

Does not.

[Neldarie]

Worked on all banners on PTR for me but ye was 1 week ago.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

It worked on banner no more than 2 days ago. http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145991
warriors gets Rallying Cry and the dps banner + other things, regardless warriors should get prio on the cd reducing trinket if only for the dps banner. Early on in progress dps is tight anyways and well timed banners to increase raid dps can prove to be a bigger factor in killing bosses than having more frequent magic reduction cds for your raid.
Rets get dps increase and raid cd shortned.
Wars gets dps increase for raid and raid cd shortned.

Why you even disagree with Neldarie on this?

[Footsz]

Worked on all banners on PTR for me but ye was 1 week ago.

Just checked, its only affecting skull banner not demo or mocking.

EDIT: Bear, if we need the aura mastery more than we need the rallying cry I could see us getting it first.

[Neldarie]

AM is just way too situational in general (hi tier14 mostly physical ae dmg); way too short and lasts for 6secs. Good fights last tier for it were prolly DA-Shen-Raden. Thats about it.

[Footsz]

Depends on the fights honestly. We'll have to see the whole raid before we'll know for sure.

[anaxie]

irregardless trinkets are broke as fuck currently which should change, Weapon procs are unknown, set bonus's being changed every other day, We don't even know what the weapons are, we have no clue about gear stats.

This is the part where we simply have to play the waiting game.

Lets just hope they throw 2hand classes a fucking bone for once in the entire expansion. Not just LOL HURP 1 weapon in raid and one off lost boss. FFS it's a orc warrior city. Big weapons for errybody!.

Calling it now though. Since General Nazgrim uses ravager and even uses the ability the old ravager proced. I'm willing to bet he has a axe weapon with a similar proc effect.

[Neldarie]

Depends on the fights honestly. We'll have to see the whole raid before we'll know for sure.

AM vs RC sure. AM vs RC + SB = no contest for "top tier".

And yes I'm also fully aware that Ret paladin on the "personal gain level" would gain alot more than a warrior from such trinkets. 25man top end aint about personal gain however.

[Footsz]

AM vs RC sure. AM vs RC + SB = no contest for "top tier".

And yes I'm also fully aware that Ret paladin on the "personal gain level" would gain alot more than a warrior from such trinkets. 25man top end aint about personal gain however.

For some reason you seem to think I give a crap about personal gain. I don't at all. If an extra AM in a fight is the difference between a heroic kill and a wipe, the rets are going to have it. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

[Neldarie]

If an extra AM in a fight is the difference between a heroic kill and a wipe, the rets are going to have it.

Whatever you been saying mate. But there is NO fight nor EVER will be one where extra AM > extra RC+SB. Not sure where you live maybe its the moon but unlike you I have seen this game's content inside out and mostly "top-end". Then there is another factor as Charles stated some pages back: Cutting edge guilds will prolly not waste loot on Rets in the first place. That is even now when Rets aren't actually shit, but in regards to what both Warrior and DK brings in the picture as a whole: they are shit.

[Saittis]

(Sorry if this question was asked before, but digging through 190 pages isnt easy)
Is the shado pan valor trinket comparable to drop ones(normal versions), I just got back in to WoW after a break and trying to gear up my pala, but I have no idea if i should buy the trinket or some other pieces, I won't do heroics this tier at all most likely so only normal gear taken into consideration, any adivces ?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If you need one more AM (or RC for that matter) the obvious move is to take one more warrior or paladin, simple matter of fact is that dps is tighter than healing (survival) during progress anyways and healers are 9/10 times the ones getting swapped for a dps. Why would you "need" another (or more frequent) AM/RC/Tranq if you're hitting enrage? You don't, you need dps which warriors bring the most with the trinket.

For STR dps it should be Warriors > Rets > your mom > dks

[Kowloon]

I am not sure why I continue to browse this thread only to read players saying Retribution is still not as strong as other melee. Ret is very strong and frankly the best melee class in the game right now to bring to raids.

My guild is currently 25m 11/13H and basically more often than not I am above our warriors, rogues, and DKs on the meters on most fights in ToT. We all have around equal gear at 542-545 item level.

I've played with various raiders/classes around 542-547 level (through heroic raid pugs and the like) and still, I come out on top or near the top competing very strongly.

Basically, I have never been bottom of the barrel in ANY raid this tier and have been on the upside of the meters while still offhealing and providing utility spells/auras to those who need.

Anybody who says a melee spot should go to a warrior or a DK over a Ret is wrong.

[Footsz]

Whatever you been saying mate. But there is NO fight nor EVER will be one where extra AM > extra RC+SB. Not sure where you live maybe its the moon but unlike you I have seen this game's content inside out and mostly "top-end". Then there is another factor as Charles stated some pages back: Cutting edge guilds will prolly not waste loot on Rets in the first place. That is even now when Rets aren't actually shit, but in regards to what both Warrior and DK brings in the picture as a whole: they are shit.

The point charles made is a better one than you're trying to make. Literally all I've said is "we don't know all the encounters yet, we don't know how valuable the trinket is going to be yet, they could make encounters where we need the faster Devo aura cd" and you're going off on some tangent about how you think I don't know top end raiding or something. Its a pointless argument and I'm done responding to you if you're just going to make ad hominem and "i'm better than you" responses. Also for the record, I've been raiding top end or damn near since vanilla.

[Deleted]

I am not sure why I continue to browse this thread only to read players saying Retribution is still not as strong as other melee. Ret is very strong and frankly the best melee class in the game right now to bring to raids.

My guild is currently 25m 11/13H and basically more often than not I am above our warriors, rogues, and DKs on the meters on most fights in ToT. We all have around equal gear at 542-545 item level.

I've played with various raiders/classes around 542-547 level (through heroic raid pugs and the like) and still, I come out on top or near the top competing very strongly.

Basically, I have never been bottom of the barrel in ANY raid this tier and have been on the upside of the meters while still offhealing and providing utility spells/auras to those who need.

Anybody who says a melee spot should go to a warrior or a DK over a Ret is wrong.

THIS in my Raid is the same scenario! warri,dk are sooo bad we have 3 ret's and rocking all the time the meters!

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

"My guild is yatta yatta of yatta yatta and rets are doing fine!"
Yes but we're talking progression, yes rets are looking mighty strong on ptr atm and should be 3rd melee choice for progression after rogues and warriors. DKs and Rets will be close on the third pick melee but we'll see how ptr goes and maybe dk grips and so on turns out to guarantee them a spot in raids, again.

When we're 2 months after progress started class balance and shit doesn't matter as much as it does when the actual race is happening.
Also, "our rets are doing fine" yes that might be true but how's the skill on your players? how much do they care? DPS on a fucking meter isn't = skill.

[Kowloon]

"My guild is yatta yatta of yatta yatta and rets are doing fine!"
Yes but we're talking progression, yes rets are looking mighty strong on ptr atm and should be 3rd melee choice for progression after rogues and warriors. DKs and Rets will be close on the third pick melee but we'll see how ptr goes and maybe dk grips and so on turns out to guarantee them a spot in raids, again.

When we're 2 months after progress started class balance and shit doesn't matter as much as it does when the actual race is happening.
Also, "our rets are doing fine" yes that might be true but how's the skill on your players? how much do they care? DPS on a fucking meter isn't = skill.

I haven't been on the PTR for this upcoming raid at all but unless the changes coming to warriors/rogues in 5.4 are that drastic, I do not agree with you whatsoever. Ret should be #1 choice for progression.

Obviously, DPS on a meter isn't the end all because a half-brained twit can pad meters. That is why Retribution should be even more so chosen over other melee because (for example) we can instant cast FoL for 150-200k on targets whenever possible and still provide very competitive DPS through the entire encounter.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I haven't been on the PTR for this upcoming raid at all but unless the changes coming to warriors/rogues in 5.4 are that drastic, I do not agree with you whatsoever. Ret should be #1 choice for progression.

Obviously, DPS on a meter isn't the end all because a half-brained twit can pad meters. That is why Retribution should be even more so chosen over other melee because (for example) we can instant cast FoL for 150-200k on targets whenever possible and still provide very competitive DPS through the entire encounter.

That shows how much of the progression race at the top 5 world you understand then.