Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Anafielle]

Good points... mine were pretty quick and dirty sims, I was just trying to test "where" to use it before PTR raiding with it. Like you note, boring target dummy simulation with the usual caveats of "this isn't a real raid encounter" etc etc. It's just the best tool I have available to fake a target dummy while I see which priority works best. Nope, didn't test the trinkets yet. I plan to, but haven't yet.

7.5 minutes, haste build, 50k iterations. I simmed myself, link to my armory, haste build & SW & 549 ilvl with HTF zerat using spark and feather (primordius doesn't give me nice things). Since we don't exactly have a T16 BIS yet, I just did it pretty dirtily and used my current gear, and set the T15 inactive and the T16 active. That is also how I made a rough estimate of its damage increase.

And you're also right that DP presents an increase, probably because SW's benefit is increased gcd utilization and the bonus negates some of the need for that.

Speccing DP, I get more like a 4.5% (7.5 minutes) or even 5% (10 minutes) increase over the best not-using-4pc simulations.... huh. Even better?! I'm kinda skeptical of that though so... more testing.

Anyways, all this is estimates. You or anyone else with interest are welcome to duplicate or correct my results. Only the recent version 530-5 implements the buffed bonus correctly. The line you want to add to your priority queue to denote "DS with buff active" is "actions+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.up". I also set it to PTR using PTR=1 and turned my T15 off and T16 on.

Also it's worth noting that the simC priority queue is by default wrong; you have to mess with it a little of course to make it play better and it's not going to play as well as a real paladin watching trinket stacks etc, nor will it seal twist. Also CS > J > Exo is simming ahead of Exo > CS > J in every one of these as discussed recently in the ej thread so I was using that, although I tested alternatives.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

trinkets are going to be a game changer for us next tier, just keep that in mind. I've even played around with the idea of having Rune from Lei Shen for aoe fights next tier and going about equal on haste/mastery with mastery slightly ahead to make rune give mastery, now I don't have rune (sadly) but just going by the % increase in mastery damage it can turn out to be a viable (unless it's nerfed) trinket choice. Imagine doing Tortos HC, killing bats with upwards of 120% mastery (or more) with next tiers 4set and DP talented... Yeah, let that sink in

as for your work it looks correct as deep as you've gone, regardless if it's going to be the "best" way to go about things is unknown atm. If you want play around with the sim with mastery builds, reduce the CD on AV and so on. Remember that we estimated that with heroic + "thunderforged" + valor upgrades AV will have 50% uptime, that means 50% of the time we're not going to get as much out of haste as we could but our mastery value goes through the roof (which is also why I want rune from lei shen).

but yeah, keep at it.



On that topic, does anyone have a Rune of Re-Orgination? Pref heroic + thunderforged and valor upgraded (big request, I know) but if you get the chance please get it and do a reforge/gem build with slightly more mastery than haste (rating, needs to be exact) and try it out. See how it feels. with my ratings I'd look on ~30k mastery rating which is around 110% mastery and I got a sneaky feeling that with that number and feather up with all cds you'd see pure holy TVs crit (with hand of light damage) way above 2mill without any gimmicky mechanics, hell even without cds you'd see a huge difference in how hard you hit. Question is if the loss of haste is worth it. And yes I thoght about us losing crit rating, we still get crit % from buffs that won't be changed.

[Deleted]

trinkets are going to be a game changer for us next tier, just keep that in mind. I've even played around with the idea of having Rune from Lei Shen for aoe fights next tier and going about equal on haste/mastery with mastery slightly ahead to make rune give mastery, now I don't have rune (sadly) but just going by the % increase in mastery damage it can turn out to be a viable (unless it's nerfed) trinket choice. Imagine doing Tortos HC, killing bats with upwards of 120% mastery (or more) with next tiers 4set and DP talented... Yeah, let that sink in

as for your work it looks correct as deep as you've gone, regardless if it's going to be the "best" way to go about things is unknown atm. If you want play around with the sim with mastery builds, reduce the CD on AV and so on. Remember that we estimated that with heroic + "thunderforged" + valor upgrades AV will have 50% uptime, that means 50% of the time we're not going to get as much out of haste as we could but our mastery value goes through the roof (which is also why I want rune from lei shen).

but yeah, keep at it.



On that topic, does anyone have a Rune of Re-Orgination? Pref heroic + thunderforged and valor upgraded (big request, I know) but if you get the chance please get it and do a reforge/gem build with slightly more mastery than haste (rating, needs to be exact) and try it out. See how it feels. with my ratings I'd look on ~30k mastery rating which is around 110% mastery and I got a sneaky feeling that with that number and feather up with all cds you'd see pure holy TVs crit (with hand of light damage) way above 2mill without any gimmicky mechanics, hell even without cds you'd see a huge difference in how hard you hit. Question is if the loss of haste is worth it. And yes I thoght about us losing crit rating, we still get crit % from buffs that won't be changed.

Rune procs at a reduced rate for non-AGI based specs. and the AGI makes me cringe.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

That's why I'm wondering HOW much reduced it is, keep in mind that higher ilvl = higher proc rate even for non agi users. rank 1 dps feral druid on Jin'rokh 25hc had 40% uptime (59sec or something, 6 procs), I'm not claiming that it's good. I'm just curious as to what it will do for a ret :P

[Deleted]

That's why I'm wondering HOW much reduced it is, keep in mind that higher ilvl = higher proc rate even for non agi users. rank 1 dps feral druid on Jin'rokh 25hc had 40% uptime (59sec or something, 6 procs), I'm not claiming that it's good. I'm just curious as to what it will do for a ret :P

the proc rate is multiplied by 0.1 for non-AGI users.

also, apparently I'm eligible for moderation application for the Paladin forums. I'm not sure if I will apply since it's a lot of responsibility, but i'm considering.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I couldn't be mod, I'm to passionate about the game. Sometimes I feel like a ticking rage bomb ready to go nuts on someone, me over reacting ofc.

[Deleted]

In other news, I now have 3! heroic scenario weapons: a sword with hit and expertise which I won 2 weeks ago, An axe with crit and haste which I won 2 days ago, and then a mastery/haste sword which I won yesterday... So now I need to spend another 2K on dancing steel, another 150G on reforges, and another 500 valor on upgrades... After I already spent 2K + 150G + 250 VP on the axe 2 days ago... at least it's an upgrade.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I did that back in blues, went from SM monestary mace to klaxxi rep sword. Fun times

[hugsofdeath]

shoot I cant get any weapons to drop, ToT or H scenario. I just had LFR shinka drop the other day after God knows how many weeks and coins!

[Ephogy]

Doubt I'll see a H TF wep now since I used all my luck on H TF haste bracers. I hate the TF system so so much

[Elutem]

My group finally got our first 2h weapon drop last week, and thankfully it was a Bo-Ris

Amazing what happens to your dps when you go from a hit/exp 502 to a 522 haste/mastery!

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Looks like I have BiS then. #10manproblems

Got HC TF Twin Consorts boots today #25manproblems

[Tanyn]

I'm at the point where I'm just hunting the ring & trinket from Primordius and the boots from Twin Consorts. I could just get in on the other fights for the chance to upgrade a few things from H to H-TF. I rolled my 3rd H-TF trinket today, too bad it was Gaze of the Twins. I would love to get the Primo trinket H-TF. I can deal with Feather/Spark for now though.

We're working on Lei Shen Heroic now. Is there any specific tips for that boss? A mastery reforge maybe? I've been pondering doing that for the last few days on it. Would drop me to like 32.5% haste with 49.2% mastery unbuffed if I just did a diff reforge priority. Worth it?

[Jakerel]

Zomg, SoO weapons are available with stats http://ptr.wowdb.com/items?filter-bu...er-slot=131072.

Looking good, looks like none are shared boss loot either.

[Faesroll]

Fuck me all of them are really good. Dat polearm though, insta boner. Probably gonna see around 40k top end damage on heroic thunderforged ones.

[Footsz]

Is it bad that I'm hoping the sword won't be BIS and won't drop for me? I want to go fem dwarf next tier for stoneform but weapon exp racials are too much dps to lose :/

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Fuck me all of them are really good. Dat polearm though, insta boner. Probably gonna see around 40k top end damage on heroic thunderforged ones.

don't look on the stats, they're just bumped up current itemization.

*edit*
oh wait they arent... well don't take them as set in stone anyways :P

[Footsz]

So I know Prim trinket pulls ahead of spark with enough haste, but what about normal prim vs heroic tf spark? Would enough haste theoretically push it over, and if so how much would it take? I can get up to 17k or so haste as it is.

[Solsacra]

So I know Prim trinket pulls ahead of spark with enough haste, but what about normal prim vs heroic tf spark? Would enough haste theoretically push it over, and if so how much would it take? I can get up to 17k or so haste as it is.

Haste doesn't really factor in how we differentiate the two trinkets, in ToT gear atleast, you've enough haste to roll rage for extended periods. they're both subject to the RPPM system, 3.3ppm for rage and 5.5 for spark. haste effects them both at the same rate. however, with that kind of disparity in item level spark wins hands down, no matter the haste your able to realistically acquire. to actually get rage to say, 80% or so uptime (reliably) you would need roughly 90-100% haste. which is only realistic with bloodlust/heroism.

[Footsz]

Haste doesn't really factor in how we differentiate the two trinkets, in ToT gear atleast, you've enough haste to roll rage for extended periods. they're both subject to the RPPM system, 3.3ppm for rage and 5.5 for spark. haste effects them both at the same rate. however, with that kind of disparity in item level spark wins hands down, no matter the haste your able to realistically acquire. to actually get rage to say, 80% or so uptime (reliably) you would need roughly 90-100% haste. which is only realistic with bloodlust/heroism.

That's what I had figured, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.